[Air-l] Re: Air-l networks

[Aldon Hynes]

Niels,

   I must admit, I'm a bit baffled by your response to
what I wrote.  Particularly, your comment that I was
"making analogies to the human mind and the internet"
has me curious.  I made no comment about the human
mind in my post, let alone drawing an analogy between
the human mind and The Internet.  It is an interesting
concept, whether such an analogy could be made, and
some of my cyber-jungian friends might argue that
there is a collective unconscious in The Internet. 
However, that is a completely different subject which
I haven't really thought out much at all.
   That said, I would like to respond to some of your
individual points.  First, you point out that "we
really don't know how neural networks ... relate to
the processes of the human mind."  I'm not sure I see
the relavence of this.  Neural networks may or may not
relate to the processes of the human mind.  However,
they provide a model for storing of information, just
as RAID 5 arrays present a similar model for storing
information.  Are these models useful for how
organizations, whether it be terrorist cells, or 21st
century corporations, could store information in a
more beneficial manner?  I believe that there is some
value at looking at the storage of organizational
information in such a way.  Steve brought up one
concern based on a RAID 0 style of storing
information; mirroring.  Yet a RAID 5 style of storing
information doesn't run into these problems.
   Likewise, I am curious about "the assumption that
the internet is of a kind that allows it to be »an
organization having knowledge that the individuals
don't have«."  I am not sure where you find that
assumption, for it isn't one of mine.  I do say that
"if we work from a model of human knowledge and
learning as being based on neural networks, then any
organization is a network of neural networks, an
internet".  However it seems to me that there is a
profound difference between a network of networks
(whether these networks be neural networks, social
networks, or any other type of network) and "the
internet".
   That said, there are some interesting questions
that come up such as the difference between
information and knowledge, for the internet does
contain a lot more information that I contain.  This
leads nicely into the question of how knowledge can be
obtained from the information on the internet, another
interesting question, but one I haven't particularly
struggled with much.  Although it seems as if the
field of "Knowledge Management" software is very
interested in this.  Likewise, this brings us to the
question of the "tacit knowledge" of an organization,
and the questions of how such tacit knowledge might be
represented and stored.
   So, I feel that you missed what I was saying in my
message, and I worry that I may have missed something
in your message.

Aldon 

--- Niels Ole Finnemann <finnemann at imv.au.dk> wrote:
> At 18:01 +0200 on 19/09/01, air-l-request at aoir.org
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to come in with a comment from far
> away:
> 
> In air-l 117 Aldon Hayes wrote: »In neural networks,
> it is the network
> itself, and its
> 
> connections that store the information and not the
> individual nodes«.
> 
> and he continues making analogies to the human mind
> and the internet as
> well as to the supposed network of some terrorist
> groups. This sort of
> analogy is widespread, but are such analogies also
> useful?
> 
> I believe them to be strongly misleading metaphors
> mainly for two
> reasons: 
> 
> First, because we really don't know
> <italic>how</italic> neural
> networks (supposed to performe the brain functions)
> relate to the
> processes of the human mind, ie: mental content,
> feelings, thoughts and
> production of, say, scientific theory. We only know
> that there seems to
> be some sort of relationship.
> 
> Second, on the internet it seems to me that the
> content is always
> stored at individual nodes and never on the net.
> This is also the case
> even if the content is distributed among different
> nodes. Even the code
> allowing the fractional parts need to be stored on a
> node itself. On
> the internet information  is always stored in a
> physical place which
> can be adressed. 
> 
> I would also doubt the assumption that the internet
> is of a kind that
> allows it to be 
> 
>  »an organization having knowledge that the
> individuals don't have«.
> Humans may have knowledge and a group of humans may
> have knowledge that
> the indiciduals don't have. But the internet??? It
> reminds me of
> Wittgenstein saying that even if  lions had a
> language we wouldn't be
> able to understand it.
> 
> Maybe a useful network theory should be elaborated
> to include such
> important differences?  
> 
> Niels Ole Finnemann
> 
> 
>
********************************************************************************
> 
> Niels Ole Finnemann	
> 
>
http://www.hum.au.dk/ckulturf/pages/php/finnemann.html
> 	
> 
> Lektor, dr. phil.
> 
> Leder af Center for Internetforskning,
> http://imv.au.dk/cfi/
> 
> Institut for Informations- og Medievidenskab
> 
> Aarhus Universitet
> 
> Niels Juelsgade 84 		Mail: finnemann at imv.au.dk
> 
> 8200 Århus N		Tlf: Dir: 89 42 19 34 - Univ: 89 42 11
> 11
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Air-l mailing list
> Air-l at aoir.org
> http://www.aoir.org/mailman/listinfo/air-l


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