[Air-l] Re: Air-l-aoir.org Digest, Vol 4, Issue 20

Ellis Godard egodard at csun.edu
Tue Nov 30 09:42:31 PST 2004


Many disconnects in there, Peder. Being able to spread a message wider does
not mean *actually* spreading it wider, and neither necessarily means social
change of any interesting variety or degree. Further, even if the web allows
hitherto unheard extremes to spread their messages wider to such an extent
that social change is engendered, that could still be simply a replication
of existing social divisions.

On the other hand, I don't understand Jarek's argument that "cyberspace will
provide answers only to the point already determined (and allowed) in the
world outside of it." I don't disagree; I'm simply not yet sure what it
means. :)

-eg 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: air-l-aoir.org-bounces at listserv.aoir.org 
> [mailto:air-l-aoir.org-bounces at listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf 
> Of Peder Are Jensen
> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 7:31 AM
> To: air-l-aoir.org at listserv.aoir.org
> Subject: [Air-l] Re: Air-l-aoir.org Digest, Vol 4, Issue 20
> 
> 
> Hello, Jarek.
> 
> Yes, hate is basically socially generated. However, it
> can also be strengthened or weakened in various ways.
> I am not sure whether I fully agree with you that "web
> sites only replicate the existing social divisions." I
> think they do more than that. I spend a lot of time
> researching websites related to Islam or anything
> Islamic. From all possible angles, both conservative
> ones, websites dealing with extremist militants
> calling for Jihad, reformist and secularist ones and
> even websites of people rejecting Islam. Now, if you
> take the extremes on both ends of this, the most
> violent Islamists and radical Islam-rejecters, these
> are groups that would have a hard time getting their
> message across in more traditional and conservative
> media. I do think the Internet itself is empowering
> such groups in a way that is significant, enabling
> them to spread their message to wider audiences. At
> the very least, the web is greatly facilitating social
> changes already underway. It may even be creating
> changes, even though I know many would reject such a
> view as technological determinism. This includes hate
> sites, such as those Islamic militant sites decsribed
> on the Internet Haganah. 
> 
> Just my 2 cents. 
> 
> Yous sincerely, Mr. Peder Jensen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:21:00 -0800
> From: "J. J." <japeks at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [Air-l] 1. Re: Virtual Ethnicities/Online
> Hate Speech
> To: air-l at listserv.aoir.org
> Message-ID:
> <BAY23-F37A0D77B14B2C3695B4C4CC9B90 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
> 
> Hi Peder,
> 
> I think that "hate" is socially generated, cyberspace
> or not. The web 
> sites 
> only replicate the existing social divisions. I've
> checked the links 
> you 
> provided, and they don't help me understand the
> phenomenon of the 
> “Islamic 
> extremists” much. I am not sure if that can be
> understood without 
> active 
> participation of the other side either and those web
> sites don't seem 
> to be 
> inviting any such discussion. My point then is that
> cyberspace will 
> provide 
> answers only to the point already determined (and
> allowed) in the world 
> outside of it.
> What do you think?
> 
> Jarek
> 
> 
> >From: Peder Are Jensen <pajensen75 at yahoo.no>
> >Reply-To: air-l at listserv.aoir.org
> >To: air-l-aoir.org at listserv.aoir.org
> >Subject: [Air-l] 1. Re: Virtual Ethnicities/Online
> Hate Speech Date: 
> Mon, 
> >22 Nov 2004 17:27:26 +0100 (CET)
> >
> > >From Peder Jensen, Master Student at the University
> of Oslo, Norway. 
> >Charles Ess mentioned searching for hate communities
> online. Have you 
> tried 
> >looking at websites by Islamic extremists? You can
> track some of them 
> >through websites like these:
> >
> >http://www.jihadwatch.org/
> >
> >http://internet-haganah.co.il/haganah/
> >
> >Yours sincerely, Mr. Peder Jensen.
> 
> 
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