[Air-L] Change of default reply setting on air-l

[Ren Reynolds]

Why don't we just vote on the change?
Simple majority wins.
ren

On 11 May 2009, at 14:35, Dominic Pinto wrote:

> agree with jeremy
>
> Dominic Pinto
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>
> ________________________________
> From: jeremy hunsinger <jhuns at vt.edu>
> To: Charles Ess <charles.ess at gmail.com>
> Cc: air-l at listserv.aoir.org
> Sent: Monday, 11 May, 2009 12:25:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Air-L] Change of default reply setting on air-l
>
>>
>> A) Briefly, a member of the Executive Committee suggested we make  
>> the change
>> based on the following considerations:
>>
>> This will eliminate emails, intended to be sent privately to  
>> another member
>> of the list in response to a list post, being accidentally  
>> broadcast instead
>> to ca. 2,000 list members.
>> - and thereby entering our uneditable archives on Dreamhost.
>
> actually we can edit those archives if necessary.  However... I find  
> it very questionable that the group would necessarily be forced to  
> serve the mistakes or carelessness of individuals.
>
>
>> We've seen a fair number of these - I'm guilty of more than my  
>> share, and so
>> perhaps I'm more sympathetic to this consideration.  Very, very  
>> fortunately,
>> so far at least, most of the emails have _not_ passed on comments or
>> otherwise revealed information in more than mildly embarrassing  
>> embarrassing
>> fashion.
>
>
> I think this is a minor point.  we have had few and I mean ... very  
> few.  I'd say we have 1 for every 10 on the cultstud-l list.
>
>> For that, we've had more than one request from respected - and  
>> certainly
>> competent - list members to eliminate such emails from the archive  
>> record.
>> Given our arrangements with Dreamhost, this is more or less just not
>> possible.
>
> we shouldn't e doing that anyway, but it can be done.
>
>> All of this raises the central worry that there exists a good  
>> possibility in
>> the long run of the list that someone will indeed post to the list  
>> a note
>> intended for a particular individual, but one containing very  
>> sensitive /
>> confidential information, the publication of which on list could  
>> easily have
>> disastrous consequences for the individuals involved, and perhaps  
>> others.
>> Worst-case, some of us are concerned that this might make AoIR  
>> legally
>> liable / open to suit.
>
> get a lawyer.  I don't see this.  before this would happen, we would  
> just edit the archive.  You just contact dreamhost, and they'll send  
> you the tar.gz, you take out the message and send it back.
>
> If this is a huge concern, then move off dreamhost to a listserv  
> with easier access.
>
> The solution shouldn't be to hamstring the community because of a  
> theoretical possibility.
>
>
>>
>> B) To be sure, other points of view - very much along the lines  
>> that have
>> now been extensively (and, thank you, very cordially) expressed by  
>> several
>> list members - were in play in our discussion as well.
>>
>> And: what was under discussion was a _trial_ run of the change, to  
>> see how
>> far the concerns that such a change would dampen community  
>> conversation,
>> etc., turned out to be true.
>> (Hence my echoing the empirical sensibility of Nicole Ellison,  
>> above.)
>
> a trial run is daft.   this list isn't for experiments even by the  
> exec.  it is the primary means of communications for the association.
>
> we specifically chose against using an announce list back in the  
> day, we had that option, to make this an announce-reply to sender  
> list, but we didn't because it hampers people's capacity to talk to  
> many people at once.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> C) There was, however - and believe me, the irony is not lost on me  
>> - some
>> miscommunication across the course of our email exchanges, such  
>> that our
>> stalwart System Officer Holly Kruse understood the decision to have  
>> been
>> made and one to be implemented.
>>
>> 2)  So, while the change was made prematurely - the upside is that  
>> it has
>> evoked just the sort of discussion that will be helpful to the  
>> Executive
>> Committee in making any long-term decision on this matter.
>> (As someone deeply committed to Habermasian and feminist  
>> understandings of
>> democracy, it is clear to me that potential norms must be openly  
>> discussed
>> and considered by those who will be affected by their possible  
>> adoption.)
>>
>> In light of all of this, I propose the following:
>> a) now that the change has been made, and that voices both pro and  
>> con are
>> being raised - rather than switch back without further ado, I  
>> suggest we
>> keep it in place for the time-being.  This will have the further  
>> advantage
>> of giving us some empirically-based sense of what effects will  
>> really follow
>> from the change.
>
> No, we shouldn't.  It will just stay in place if you leave it in  
> place, within a week people will begin to change their norms and  
> expectations to the list.   I've already had people reply to me  
> directly from the list when they've mean tto reply to the list itself.
>
>
> I hate to say it, but there is really no reason to make this  
> change.  I see that some people might be for it.  But i think the  
> majority see that it substantially changes the nature of the list in  
> ways that detracts from the nature of AoIR.
>
> This is something that should be voted on before it is changed,  
> voted on by the members.  It is akin to something like founding a  
> journal, changing membership fees, etc.  This is the main  
> communication medium for the organization, changes should not just  
> be decided for the organization.  A vote at the annual meeting or  
> referendum during the upcoming election seems necessary before  
> letting this change in place.
>
>
>
>
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