[Air-L] Elsevier is taking down papers from Academia.edu

Sat Dec 7 20:02:48 PST 2013

Hi all 

This is a recurring discussion  I think....

I would suggest approaching it from the angle of recruitment committees: until they (we) cease considering well-established, commercial journals as more prestigious there will be no incentive for people to stop publishing there, which increases their rejetion rates, and make them even more attractive. Since true open access journals are still young they have not had a chance to acquire this aura yet. Hopefully with time open access journals will develop their layout and copy-editing competencies to match commercial presses (and not just on the back of PhD students either).

As for reviewing, it can be considered in connection to the above - why refuse to review for journals which you would happily publish with because they are prestigious? - or separately, as labour which deservses to be be compensated and in fact publishers offer incentives to reviewers in the form of reduced book prices etc. But if you want real wages that is something else which only organised collective action will produce probably; but it does solve the issue that the work of reviewing is only recognised indirectly - open publications of reviews as some do would help blah blah etc

cheers

Mathieu

________________________________________
From: air-l-bounces at listserv.aoir.org [air-l-bounces at listserv.aoir.org] on behalf of Raphael Garcia [tsavkko at yahoo.com.br]
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 12:33
To: air-l at listserv.aoir.org
Subject: Re: [Air-L] Elsevier is taking down papers from Academia.edu

I'd ask why do we need publishers like Elsevier?

Our Universities pay for or research, and we give them to Elsevier (or
other similar groups) to publish and they make a profit of it, but we
canot even use and share our own work?

That's simply a stupid way of doing things.

best,
Raphael Tsavkko Garcia
PhD candidate, Universidad de Deusto

Em 08/12/2013 00:02, John McNutt escreveu:
> I agree but there is a lot of expensive stuff here.  Even if you take the physical distribution out of the mix, publishers do a lot of things to get it out the door, keep it indexed and marketed and so forth.   Some associations (many of which are small) use publishers to meet a lot of their back office needs as well.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: air-l-bounces at listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces at listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Nathaniel Poor
> Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 4:59 PM
> To: Gil De Zuniga, Homero
> Cc: air-l at listserv.aoir.org
> Subject: Re: [Air-L] Elsevier is taking down papers from Academia.edu
>
> It seems like double billing.
>
> Your U paid you to do the research. Your U pays the publisher to allow access for those at your U to that research.
>
> That is simplified, but not inaccurate.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 7, 2013, at 2:46 PM, "Gil De Zuniga, Homero" <hgz at austin.utexas.edu> wrote:
>>
>> I know this might sound a bit odd, and I admit it beforehand : -} But
>> it sends to me that "us" researchers are the ones who are really losing in this trend, beyond the discussion of open research.
>> 1. We do the research
>> 2. We review the research
>> 3. The research gets published by Elsevier and other publishers, or
>> Academia.edu 4. We make no money.
>> 5. They do.
>> I agree the system should be open. But if it's not, why shouldn't be the case that at least a decent part of the financial benefits revert back to the authors, departments, research units, schools, etc...
>> Saludos,
>> HGZ
>>
>> Homero Gil de ZÃºÃ±iga
>> Associate Professor
>> Director, Digital Media Research Program (DMRP)
>> communication.utexas.edu/strauss/dmrp
>> Annette Strauss Institute for Civic Life College of Communication
>> University of Texas - Austin utexas.edu Voice (512) 471 6323 Fax (512)
>> 471 7979 www.homerogdz.com Google Scholar Profile @_HGZ_
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: "Robert W. Gehl"
>> Date:12/07/2013 11:08 (GMT-06:00)
>> To: air-l at listserv.aoir.org
>> Subject: Re: [Air-L] Elsevier is taking down papers from Academia.edu
>>
>> Setting aside individual publishers' rules about posting pre-prints to
>> a /personal/ site, I've wondered for some time why publishers have not
>> yet gone after Academia.edu, which is not a personal site, but a
>> centralized social network built in part on top of a lot of copyright violations.
>> It's YouTube all over again.
>>
>> - Rob
>>
>> Robert W. Gehl
>> Assistant Professor, Department of Communication Affiliated Faculty,
>> University Writing Program The University of Utah
>> www.robertwgehl.org<http://www.robertwgehl.org> | @robertwgehl Sent
>> from our OS on our Internet
>>
>> Watch for my book, Reverse Engineering Social Media, from Temple in
>> 2014
>>
>>> On 12/07/2013 08:28 AM, Jen Jack Gieseking wrote:
>>> To determine exactly what versions of papers you are allowed to post
>>> publicly per contracts, you can use the Sherpa Romeo database to
>>> search copyright policies of most journals in a clear, easy to understand format:
>>> http://www.sherpa.ac.uk/romeo/.
>>> JJG
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jen Jack Gieseking, Ph.D.
>>> Postdoctoral Fellow in New Media and Data Visualization Digital and
>>> Computational Studies Initiative, Bowdoin College
>>> jgieseking at gmail.com www.jgieseking.org<http://www.jgieseking.org>
>>> www.spatiallyinclined.org<http://www.spatiallyinclined.org>
>>> @jgieseking <https://twitter.com/jgieseking>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Michael Zimmer <zimmerm at uwm.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Precisely.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Michael Zimmer, PhD
>>>> Assistant Professor, School of Information Studies Director, Center
>>>> for Information Policy Research University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
>>>> e: zimmerm at uwm.edu
>>>> w: www.michaelzimmer.org<http://www.michaelzimmer.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 7, 2013, at 6:21 AM, Joseph Reagle <joseph.2011 at reagle.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/06/2013 10:41 PM, Michael Zimmer wrote:
>>>>>> Whoever wrote this isn't very familiar with publisher copyright
>>>>>> transfer agreements.
>>>>> Some publishers often distinguish between the author's draft and
>>>>> the final peer reviewed and paginated version. That is, posting a
>>>>> draft on your site (or to SSRN, say) is permissible, copying the
>>>>> final version is not. Hence I'm curious as to which these removed versions were?
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