[Assam] From Tehelka

[Ram Sarangapani]

C'da

>A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one going
hungry or >homeless or without health care, leaving Indian nationalists
green with envy, isn't it?

And that is a plus point for China? Lack of individual freedoms in China
(and Cuba) are mandated by the state. Will that be sufficient for Assam - if
the GOI were to provide homes, food and healthcare only?

>*** Considering your lumping all these three together to mean that they are
all the same?

All I was saying is that Hitler like Castro and Marx did have a huge
influence, a negative one, but none the less an influence.

>*** What does that mean Ram? That them being democratic absolves them of
their >socialist/communistic sins?


>Democracy is a TOOL Ram, it is NOT and end unto itself.

I did know Israel was Communistic in governance. I would, however,
differentiate between socialism and communism. Countries in Scandinavia are
socialistic to a degree - doesn't make them communistic.



--Ram



On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>  Ram:
>
>
>
>
> >C'da, wanting and fighting for freedom is a noble thing. The way some try
> to >get it is often ignoble - and that is the problem.
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>  *** I would not dare hold a candle to your goodness Ram :-).
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> >Marx and Castro obviously did have a huge influence on human
> civilization. So >did Hitler.
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>  *** Considering your lumping all these three together to mean that they
> are all the same? Is your desi-hyperbole working overtime Ram :-)?
>
>
> Also, even though Marxism might not be your cup of tea or mine, can you go
> tell that to Chinese? A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now
> has no one going hungry or homeless or without health care, leaving Indian
> nationalists green with envy, isn't it?
>
>
> Similarly for Castro. He may not be your hero, but Cubans seem to think
> differently, don't they? Unless of course you know what is best for Cubans
> :-).
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> >This much I know, it is a democracy with kibbutzes and all.
>
>
>  *** What does that mean Ram? That them being democratic absolves them of
> their socialist/communistic sins?
>
>
> Democracy is a TOOL Ram, it is NOT and end unto itself.
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> c-da
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> At 3:00 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
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> Ouch! C'da,
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>
>
> >But regardless of their political creed NO revolutionary could deny
> >Castro his due place in the history of revolutions. Similarly, >regardless
> of the failures ( or successes) of Marxism as a system >of governance, no
> one can deny the enormous influence Marx left >in the formation of
> contemporary human civilization
>
>
>
> Good questions requiring deep thoughts. Marx and Castro obviously did have
> a huge influence on human civilization. So did Hitler. IMHO, we judge such
> personalities NOT by the amount of influence they had on civilizations, but
> by how much good they have done for humanity either thru their teachings or
> they way they ruled (Cuba).
>
> Both Marx and Castro have been absolute failures in that regard. Though
> Marz never raised a gun, he did manage to incite  a number of countries
> (China, Indo-China comes to mind) who used/misused his doctrines to enslave
> huge populations for decades. That hopefully is not what those fighting for
> freedom in Assam want for the people of Assam.
>
>
>
> >There is way too much hypocrisy and self-serving piety going on all
> >around us today to give such labels any credence at all Ram.
>
>
>
> I agree, but there is a whale lot of difference between people who might
> swear by a Gandhi and those by a Hitler or a Castro.
>
>
>
> Don't know much about the form of Govt. Israel has. This much I know, it
> is a democracy with kibbutzes and all. But about Begin turning 'freedom
> fighter', thats a pretty common these days of global politics. The same with
> Arafat, once a terrorist, then goes on to win the Nobel.
>
>
>
> C'da, wanting and fighting for freedom is a noble thing. The way some try
> to get it is often ignoble - and that is the problem.
>
>
>
> --Ram
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> On 8/16/06,* Chan Mahanta* <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
> I don't know Pradip Gogoi from Adam, Ram, even though he is a fellow
> Jokaisukiya from perhaps thirty miles or so from where I grew up. I don't
> know under what context he said what he did. But regardless of their
> political creed NO revolutionary could deny Castro his due place in the
> history of revolutions. Similarly, regardless of the failures ( or
> successes) of Marxism as a system of governance, no one can deny the
> enormous influence Marx left in the formation of contemporary human
> civilization.
>
>
>
>
> >will there be a Communistic slant in their rule?
>
>
>
>
> *** Even if I were to be in a position to answer such questions, I could
> not have answered such a vague question. What exactly is a communistic
> slant? Is Israel with its Kibbutzes ( Communes) and absence of private
> land-ownership and socialist governance 'communistic'; fit to be tarred and
> feathered with such simplistic labels ? How did Menachem Begin get
> rehabilitated as a 'freedom-fighter', while he was instrumental to blowing
> up Britishers and their installations and was once branded by them a
> 'terrorist'? What kind of cleansing solvent did Begin's followers find to
> wash off his 'terrorist' label?
>
>
>
>
> There is way too much hypocrisy and self-serving piety going on all around
> us today to give such labels any credence at all Ram. Particularly by people
> who are informed and are able to reason.
>
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> c-da
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> At 12:31 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>
> C'da
>
>
>
> Thanks for sharing that with us. Pretty interesting. Gogoi does have the
> tenacity and passion - one must give him that, even though I necessarily do
> not see things his way.
>
>
>
> Its is intriguing that his passion for independence is built upon the
> ideals of Marx and Castro.
>
>
>
> The question is, if people like him become leaders of an independent
> Assam, will there be a Communistic slant in their rule?
>
>
>
> Just thoughts.
>
>
>
> --Ram
>
>
> On 8/16/06,* Chan Mahanta* <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
> ULFA's Pradip Gogoi in Tehelka:
>
> http://www.fromallangles.com/newspapers/country/india/tehelka.com.htm
>
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