[Assam] From Tehelka

Thu Aug 17 07:21:45 PDT 2006

You have completely gone off the reservation here Ram :-).

I was asking you about China, because you don't seem to think China's 
Marxist government was good for its people.

c-da

PS: Indentured peasants are all over North , Central and Western 
India. Perhaps even the South. There are a lot of things that are NOT 
sanctioned by GoI. But they happen never-the-less. So one might be 
led to ask, WHO needs such a govt., if it cannot protect its most 
vulnerable people?

Heard of Naxals Ram?

At 8:45 AM -0500 8/17/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>C'da,
>
>  >*** Is it a minus Ram? How would you describe it, had your parents 
>been landless, indentured peasants, without a >shelter to call it 
>home and if the STATE came to your aid by ensuring you had food, 
>shelter and health care?
>
>Yes, it would. But is that the situation in Assam? And if so, how 
>many people are affected? Are affected numbers far greater than any 
>other state?
>
>Indentured peasants if they exist in India, are NOT state sanctioned.
>
>Lastly, is your suggestion for solving India's (or Assam's) poverty 
>ridden plight a communistic approach?
>
>--Ram
>
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>
>
>On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta 
><<mailto:cmahanta at charter.net>cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>  >I did know Israel was Communistic in governance. I would, 
>however, >differentiate between socialism and communism. Countries 
>in Scandinavia are >socialistic to a degree - doesn't make them 
>communistic.
>
>
>
>
>*** I am glad you have the ability to split hairs Ram :-).
>
>
>I am however quite curious about the fine distinctions between 
>living in a Kibbutz, in a communal arrangement, and the 
>unacceptability of 'communistic'. Can you help ?
>
>
>  >And that is a plus point for China?
>
>
>*** Is it a minus Ram? How would you describe it, had your parents 
>been landless, indentured peasants, without a shelter to call it 
>home and if the STATE came to your aid by ensuring you had food, 
>shelter and health care?  I am sure a lot of peple woud like to hear 
>:-).
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>c-da
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>At 6:20 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>
>>C'da
>>
>
>
>  >A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one 
>going hungry or >homeless or without health care, leaving Indian 
>nationalists green with envy, isn't it?
>
>
>
>And that is a plus point for China? Lack of individual freedoms in 
>China (and Cuba) are mandated by the state. Will that be sufficient 
>for Assam - if the GOI were to provide homes, food and healthcare 
>only?
>
>
>
>  >*** Considering your lumping all these three together to mean that 
>they are all the same?
>
>
>
>All I was saying is that Hitler like Castro and Marx did have a huge 
>influence, a negative one, but none the less an influence.
>
>
>
>  >*** What does that mean Ram? That them being democratic absolves 
>them of their >socialist/communistic sins?
>
>
>
>
>  >Democracy is a TOOL Ram, it is NOT and end unto itself.
>
>
>
>I did know Israel was Communistic in governance. I would, however, 
>differentiate between socialism and communism. Countries in 
>Scandinavia are socialistic to a degree - doesn't make them 
>communistic.
>
>
>
>--Ram
>
>
>
>
>
>On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta 
><<mailto:cmahanta at charter.net>cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>Ram:
>
>
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>
>  >C'da, wanting and fighting for freedom is a noble thing. The way 
>some try to >get it is often ignoble - and that is the problem.
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>*** I would not dare hold a candle to your goodness Ram :-).
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>  >Marx and Castro obviously did have a huge influence on human 
>civilization. So >did Hitler.
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>*** Considering your lumping all these three together to mean that 
>they are all the same? Is your desi-hyperbole working overtime Ram 
>:-)?
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>
>
>Also, even though Marxism might not be your cup of tea or mine, can 
>you go tell that to Chinese? A nation way worse off than India 50 
>years back, now has no one going hungry or homeless or without 
>health care, leaving Indian nationalists green with envy, isn't it?
>
>
>
>
>Similarly for Castro. He may not be your hero, but Cubans seem to 
>think differently, don't they? Unless of course you know what is 
>best for Cubans :-).
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>  >This much I know, it is a democracy with kibbutzes and all.
>
>
>
>
>*** What does that mean Ram? That them being democratic absolves 
>them of their socialist/communistic sins?
>
>
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>
>Democracy is a TOOL Ram, it is NOT and end unto itself.
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>c-da
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>At 3:00 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>
>>Ouch! C'da,
>>
>
>
>  >But regardless of their political creed NO revolutionary could 
>deny >Castro his due place in the history of revolutions. 
>Similarly, >regardless of the failures ( or successes) of Marxism as 
>a system >of governance, no one can deny the enormous influence Marx 
>left >in the formation of contemporary human civilization
>
>
>
>Good questions requiring deep thoughts. Marx and Castro obviously 
>did have a huge influence on human civilization. So did Hitler. 
>IMHO, we judge such personalities NOT by the amount of influence 
>they had on civilizations, but by how much good they have done for 
>humanity either thru their teachings or they way they ruled (Cuba).
>
>Both Marx and Castro have been absolute failures in that regard. 
>Though Marz never raised a gun, he did manage to incite  a number of 
>countries (China, Indo-China comes to mind) who used/misused his 
>doctrines to enslave huge populations for decades. That hopefully is 
>not what those fighting for freedom in Assam want for the people of 
>Assam.
>
>
>
>
>  >There is way too much hypocrisy and self-serving piety going on 
>all >around us today to give such labels any credence at all Ram.
>
>
>
>I agree, but there is a whale lot of difference between people who 
>might swear by a Gandhi and those by a Hitler or a Castro.
>
>
>
>Don't know much about the form of Govt. Israel has. This much I 
>know, it is a democracy with kibbutzes and all. But about Begin 
>turning 'freedom fighter', thats a pretty common these days of 
>global politics. The same with Arafat, once a terrorist, then goes 
>on to win the Nobel.
>
>
>
>C'da, wanting and fighting for freedom is a noble thing. The way 
>some try to get it is often ignoble - and that is the problem.
>
>
>
>--Ram
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>On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta 
><<mailto:cmahanta at charter.net>cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>I don't know Pradip Gogoi from Adam, Ram, even though he is a fellow 
>Jokaisukiya from perhaps thirty miles or so from where I grew up. I 
>don't know under what context he said what he did. But regardless of 
>their political creed NO revolutionary could deny Castro his due 
>place in the history of revolutions. Similarly, regardless of the 
>failures ( or successes) of Marxism as a system of governance, no 
>one can deny the enormous influence Marx left in the formation of 
>contemporary human civilization.
>
>
>
>
>  >will there be a Communistic slant in their rule?
>
>
>
>
>*** Even if I were to be in a position to answer such questions, I 
>could not have answered such a vague question. What exactly is a 
>communistic slant? Is Israel with its Kibbutzes ( Communes) and 
>absence of private land-ownership and socialist governance 
>'communistic'; fit to be tarred and feathered with such simplistic 
>labels ? How did Menachem Begin get rehabilitated as a 
>'freedom-fighter', while he was instrumental to blowing up 
>Britishers and their installations and was once branded by them a 
>'terrorist'? What kind of cleansing solvent did Begin's followers 
>find to wash off his 'terrorist' label?
>
>
>
>
>There is way too much hypocrisy and self-serving piety going on all 
>around us today to give such labels any credence at all Ram. 
>Particularly by people who are informed and are able to reason.
>
>
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>c-da
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>At 12:31 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>
>>C'da
>>
>
>
>Thanks for sharing that with us. Pretty interesting. Gogoi does have 
>the tenacity and passion - one must give him that, even though I 
>necessarily do not see things his way.
>
>
>
>Its is intriguing that his passion for independence is built upon 
>the ideals of Marx and Castro.
>
>
>
>The question is, if people like him become leaders of an independent 
>Assam, will there be a Communistic slant in their rule?
>
>
>
>Just thoughts.
>
>
>
>--Ram
>
>
>On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta 
><<mailto:cmahanta at charter.net>cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>ULFA's Pradip Gogoi in Tehelka:
>
><http://www.fromallangles.com/newspapers/country/india/tehelka.com.htm>http://www.fromallangles.com/newspapers/country/india/tehelka.com.htm
>
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