[Assam] beef-eating in india: History is from Hindu texts?
Rajen & Ajanta Barua
barua25 at hotmail.com
Sun Jun 18 18:28:55 PDT 2006
By reading all the quotes.
RB
----- Original Message -----
From: umesh sharma
To: Barua25 ; xourov pathok ; Ram Sarangapani
Cc: assam at assamnet.org
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] beef-eating in india: History is from Hindu texts?
How did you infer from the wuotes that those who ate beef were Hindus (let alone the priestly class)
****Brahmins used to eat cows.
Umesh
Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
Umesh:
Thanks for referring to such enlightening write up. I did not read Ambedkar's book, but it seems I need to. Frankly speaking I did not know that he was such an intellectual. Many of his reasoning makes sense. He also made it very clear that Rig Veda has evidence that the Brahmins used to eat cows.
From his quote:
That the Aryans of the Rig Veda did kill cows for purposes of food and ate beef is abundantly clear from the Rig Veda itself. In Rig Veda (X. 86.14) Indra says: "They cook for one 15 plus twenty oxen". The Rig Veda (X.91.14) says that for Agni were sacrificed horses, bulls, oxen, barren cows and rams. From the Rig Veda (X.72.6) it appears that the cow was killed with a sword or axe.
Your assumption is absolutely correct. If he would have mis quoted, you would have heard pointed objections from Hindutwa and BJP for sure. That we have none, proves that Ambedkar was right. Don't you agree?
RB
----- Original Message -----
From: umesh sharma
To: xourov pathok ; Ram Sarangapani
Cc: assam at assamnet.org
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] beef-eating in india: History is from Hindu texts?
Pl comment on the following:
Pl. see what Ambedkar quotes from Hindu texts. Given that he was educated in the West - Columbia Univ, London Sch. of Economics etc , Germany etc -we can believe that his quotes are not fabricated (any questions about tis assumption?) .
His quotes from Rig Ved show that cow is Aghnya -NOT to be killed.
Smaller texts (counterparts of Christian Gospel of Judas --or followed by some strange , anti-social Tantrik sects perhaps , like those who spoke in favor of human sacrifice etc also - I have never heard of these texts ) mention some cow/oxen sacrifice.
Moral of the story --- mainstream Hindus discouraged and opposed cow killing (just like mainstream Western civilization opposes polygamy and dog/rat/snake-eating) --however, certain sects (like Christian sects of Mormon deviant -Christ Church of Latter Day Saints of Warren Jeff promote polygamy even now -50,000 practicing in US) had certain deviant practices of cow sacriices etc.
Why not allow polygamy or dog eating in US ?
Any comments?
Umesh
http://www.countercurrents.org/dalit-ambekarbeef050703.htm
What is the evidence in support of the construction that the Hindus never ate beef and were opposed to the killing of the cow?
There are two series of references in the Rig Veda on which reliance is placed. In one of these, the cow is spoken of as Aghnya. They are Rig Veda 1.164, 27; IV.1.6; V 82-8; V11.69. 71; X.87. Aghnya means 'one who does not deserve to be killed'. From this, it is argued that this was a prohibition against the killing of the cow and that since the Vedas are the final authority in the matter of religion, it is concluded that the Aryans could not have killed the cows, much less could they have eaten beef. In another series of references the cow is spoken of as sacred. They are Rig Veda V1.28.1.8. and VIII, 101. 15. In these verses the cow is addressed as Mother of Rudras, the Daughter of Vasus, the Sister of the Adityas and the Centre of Nectar. Another reference on the subject is in Rig Veda VIII. 101. 16 where the cow is called Devi (Goddess).
Reliance is also placed on certain passages in the Brahmanas and Sutras.
There are two passages in the Satapatha Brahmana which relate to animal sacrifice and beef-eating. One is at 111.1.2.21 and reads as follows:
"He (the Adhvaryu) then makes him enter the hall. Let him not eat (the flesh) of either the cow or the ox, for the cow and the ox doubtless support everything here on earth. The gods spake, 'verily, the cow and the ox support everything here; come, let us bestow on the cow and the ox whatever vigour belonged to other species (of animals); and therefore the cow and the ox eat most Hence were one to eat (the flesh) of an ox or a cow, there would be, as it were, an eating of everything, or, as it were, a going to the end (or, to destruction)... Let him therefore not eat (the flesh) of the cow and the ox'."
The other passage is at 1, 2, 3, 6. It speaks against animal sacrifice and on ethical grounds.
A similar statement is contained in the Apastambha Dharma Sutra at 1, 5, 17, 29. Apastambha lays a general embargo on the eating of cow's flesh.
Such is the evidence in support of the contention that the Hindus never ate beef. What conclusion can be drawn from this evidence?
So far as the evidence from the Rig Veda is concerned the conclusion is based on a misreading and misunderstanding of the texts. The adjective Aghnya applied to the cow in the Rig Veda means a cow that was yielding milk and therefore not fit for being killed. That the cow is venerated in the Rig Veda is of course true. But this regard and veneration of the cow are only to be expected from an agricultural community like the Indo-Aryans. This application of the utility of the cow did not prevent the Aryan from killing the cow for purposes of food. Indeed the cow was killed because the cow was regarded as sacred. As observed by Mr. P.V. Kane: "It was not that the cow was not sacred in Vedic times, it was because of her sacredness that it is ordained in the Vajasaneyi Samhita that beef should be eaten."
That the Aryans of the Rig Veda did kill cows for purposes of food and ate beef is abundantly clear from the Rig Veda itself. In Rig Veda (X. 86.14) Indra says: "They cook for one 15 plus twenty oxen". The Rig Veda (X.91.14) says that for Agni were sacrificed horses, bulls, oxen, barren cows and rams. From the Rig Veda (X.72.6) it appears that the cow was killed with a sword or axe.
As to the testimony of the Satapatha Bramhana, can it be said to be conclusive? Obviously, it cannot be. For there are passages in the other Bramhanas which give a different opinion.
To give only one instance. Among the Kamyashtis set forth in the Taittiriya Bramhana, not only the sacrifice of oxen and cows are laid down, but we are even told what kind and description of oxen and cows are to be offered to what deities. Thus, a dwarf ox is to be chosen for sacrifice to Vishnu; a drooping horned bull with a blaze on the forehead to Indra as the destroyer of Vritra; a black cow to Pushan; a red cow to Rudra; and so on. The Taittiriya Bramhana notes another sacrifice called Panchasaradiya-seva, the most important element of which was the immolation of seventeen five-year old humpless, dwraf-bulls, and as many dwarf heifers under three year-old...
.The killing of cow for the guest had grown to such an extent that the guest came to be called 'Go-ghna' which means the killer of the cow. To avoid this slaughter of the cows the Ashvateyana Grahya Sutra (1.24.25) suggests that the cow should be let loose when the guest comes so as to escape the rule of etiquette..
Umesh
xourov pathok <xourov at yahoo.com> wrote:
--- umesh sharma wrote:
> Pl comment on the Ambedkar's quotes of cow killing
> -in my other post.
>
i could not find ambedkar's quotes in your other
mails, but i presume you mean the comments made here:
http://www.countercurrents.org/dalit-ambekarbeef050703.htm
do you want me to comment on this?
That the Aryans of the Rig Veda did kill cows for
purposes of food and ate beef is abundantly clear from
the Rig Veda itself. In Rig Veda (X. 86.14) Indra
says: â?oThey cook for one 15 plus twenty oxenâ?. The
Rig Veda (X.91.14) says that for Agni were sacrificed
horses, bulls, oxen, barren cows and rams. From the
Rig Veda (X.72.6) it appears that the cow was killed
with a sword or axe.
i would say he does not contradict jha and achaya.
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Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005
weblog: http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
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