[Assam] Acute inferiorty complex IC

[Ram Sarangapani]

Dear Barua,

>I think this also shows disrespect to the person unless you know for sure
the other >person's position

What? With that logic above, do you for certain know Himen da's position? If
so what is it? If not, why are responding to his views?

I am not showing disrespect to anyone on the net. In fact I have the utmost
respect for you, Himen da, C'da Mukul da, Bhuban da and certainly others. I
take the net to be a forum where ideas (good or bad) are exchanged freely.
If I am to be restricted on that count, then frankly, this net is NOT for
me. I would rather participate freely or not at all.

You can certainly say that my ideas (or thoughts) are out of context - I
have absolutely no problem, but thats your opinion But to interpret what I
am writing as some for of disrespect to others (specially Himen da) is
totally out of line.

>I think you are talking things out of context.  But I would rather show
respect to the >person and let him respond.

You are certainly entitled to your view. Wern't you (a few days ago) write
on this very net that the net was a cruel place (something along those
lines)?  Why the sudden change of heart?  I was responding to C'da's
comment, and I take it you are finding it probably difficult to counter my
arguments. You and some others are claiming that the "fact that some are
Sankritizing Assamese" is because of some inherent IC in Assamese people. I
certainly don't subscribe to that view, and further, I think if you make any
language restrictive that in fact would indicate some sense of IC.

I don't subscribe to any one person's views. I subscribe to it only when I
feel I should and feel right about it. Lastly, I would like to think, I
don't necessarily carry any baggage that could color my thoughts and ideas,
nor do I have have any agendas that might further some far away goal.

>In view of that I will resist responding to this message and say anything
against >Himenda simply because I don't know if what you are saying are
also Himend'as point of >view.

Whether or not I support Himen da's ideas is inconsequential. If you want to
counter his arguments, feel free to do so.

With the best

--Ram



On 3/11/06, Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Ram:
> Pleasedon't mind my saying so, but have noticed couple of times that you
> try to come out for somebody else's defense without giving the person a
> chance to respond or make his point. I think this also shows disrespect to
> the person unless you know for sure the other person's position.  In view of
> that I will resist responding to this message and say anything against
> Himenda simply because I don't know if what you are saying are
> also Himend'as point of view.  I think you are talking things out of
> context.  But I would rather show respect to the person and let him respond.
> Barua.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
> *To:* Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
> *Cc:* Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com> ; Himendra Thakur<hthakur at comcast.net>;
> assam at assamnet.org ; Dilip/Dil Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com> ; J Kalita<jugalkalita at yahoo.com>; Ginima
> Barua <shivadoul at yahoo.com> ; Indrajit Barua <ibarua at yahoo.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:56 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Assam] Acute inferiorty complex IC
>
>
> C'da,
>
> I am surprised!
> >Himenda's attempts to Sanskritize Oxomiya words and phrases, demonstrates
> his own insecurity and inferiority >complex as an Oxomiya -- driving him to
> Sanskritized versions of words and phrases. He even writes 'desh', as in
> >deshotkoi'.
>
> One could also argue (quite effectively) that trying to do just the
> opposite is because of one's own inferiority complex and insecurity.
>
> If Assamese is being Sankritized,  would that be a scary scenario for
> some? If so, why are they scared? Don't they have the confidence that the
> language is and always has been strong from these onslaughts?
>
> Look at English. One of the reasons its so popular is because it borrows
> heavily from many languages (many Indian ones included), and the language is
> ever evolving with inclusions of even words from American rap music.
> So, the question is: Are Americans or the English have doubts that their
> language will be diluted because the English language resorts to constantly
> borrowing from Non Anglo-Saxon/Greek/Lantin languages?
>
> My whole take on this is: Its fine for any language to borrow unique ways
> of writing some words from other languages - that only makes the language
> richer and becomes inclusive. The option of writing a word like Dex in other
> forms (des or desh) might indicate that the language is not just inclusive
> but also has several "accepatble" ways of writing certain words. Isn't that
> more welcoming to others.
>
> I am no expert in these matters, and could be totally off base - but these
> are my thoughts for the moment and am willing to change them if I could be
> convinced. AKN should really weigh in this.
>
> --Ram
>
> On 3/11/06, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
> >
> >  Very well said Rajen.
> >
> >
> > BTW, I think the personal statement in his e-mails, Priyankoo's
> > imagination of 'dex', country--as little more than an idea--'dharona', the
> > last part of an address; is poetic and beautiful, as opposed to the commonly
> > used ones as "mother" for example.
> >
> >
> > Himenda's attempts to Sanskritize Oxomiya words and phrases,
> > demonstrates his own insecurity and inferiority complex as an Oxomiya --
> > driving him to Sanskritized versions of words and phrases. He even writes
> > 'desh', as in deshotkoi'. Did Lasit Borphukan speak Sanskrit?
> >
> >
> > I know you said as much. I just wanted to make it clear,lest it is
> > missed; even though it is kind of cruel.
> >
> >
> > I have some thoughts about the context in which he supposedly uttered
> > the purported quote 'dexotokoi mwmai dangor nohoy', which when I aired last
> > time in assamnet several years back, drew howls of protest from Oxomiyas who
> > accepted the act as one of 'heroism'. Will take that up again when I get a
> > little time. In the meantime, those with tender sensitivities may consider
> > bracing themselves for another round of assaults to their psyches. I am
> > giving fair warning!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > c :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 10:16 AM -0600 3/11/06, Barua25 wrote:
> >
> > Dear Himen-da:
> >
> > Thanks for your note.
> >
> > Regarding Assamese having an 'inferiority complex' (written as IC
> > henceforth) I have been saying this for decades now. This is something one
> > can only feel or realize seeing the day to day actions of the Assamese
> > people as a group on national or international level. First we will have to
> > 'recognize the fact that we have this IC. >From my side I can write a essay
> > citing examples of Assamese IC. Now some people may not like to agree with
> > me. To them I will simply ask to either counter my arguments or give me some
> > examples whereby we can say that Assamese are not suffering from IC.
> > However, I don't exactly understand when you say we need to discuss this in
> > the net. What we can achieve by discussing this in the net? And I think we
> > have discussed this issue many times in the net.  This is something we can
> > remove by our leaders first by getting rid of this 'IC' themselves and then
> > educating the people by their actions. (*Please note that we use the net
> > not to solve problems but just to use it as a 'sounding borad' to test our
> > idea's. From that angle the net is a very cruel sounding borad. It will hit
> > one back and may hurt if the idea is not sound or true.) *
> >
> >
> >
> > Regarding the slogan *"deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"* * * I would not
> > like to equate this unnecessarily with Krishna's killing Bhishma simply
> > because it will not serve any purpose unless of course one is trying to make
> > poor Lasit an Assamese Krishna.  I think we should not try to defend or
> > justify Lasit more than what he did. Let us leave it a historical fact and
> > let us try to utilize this fact to the advantage of the future of the
> > Assamese. (BTW please note that we try to write ethnic Assamese phonetics in
> > Roman script in the net as opposed to your Sanskritised transliteration
> > writing. So we would write the phrase more like   *'dexotkoi mwmai
> > dangor nohoy'*. May explain details later. )
> >
> >
> >
> > Regarding your other  slogan* "desh matho eta dharana, thikanar shesh
> > shari",* all I can say is that so far I know this is a personal
> > statement (a philosophical quote one may say) being used by Priyanku Sarma
> > in the net. Here again please note that Priyanku used the correct Assamese
> > ethnic spelling as : *Dex matho eta dharona, thikonar xex xari...,* and
> > not what you spelled above. (Thank you Priyanku). Probably if there is
> > anything more to its meaning, Priyanku can respond.
> >
> >
> >
> > Now coming to the meaning of the word 'dharona ', I think you are trying
> > too hard to find the meaning in Sanskrit grammar book. Please note that this
> > is a simple Assamese word, and many a times, the same word may mean slightly
> > different in Sanskrit than in Assamese. We should try to use the Assamese
> > meaning. From that point, 'dharona' is a simple Assamese word, meaning'conception' or 'idea' or 'comment' etc.
> > The meaning is clear when we say the Assamese sentence* "Ei
> > ghotonatw xomporke twmar ki dharona baru?" *Some netters like Alpana and
> > others probably may give you better sentence using the Assamese word*'dharona'
> > *.  Anyhow the full meaning of the Priyanku's quote will be :* A country
> > is nothing an idea which is only required to use as a last phrase in one's
> > address. *  In fact I like this poetic (Omor Khyam type) quote, and I
> > can write volumes in support of this poetic or philosophical statement.
> >
> >
> >
> > Hope this will make some clarifications. More later.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Rajen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net>
> >
> > *To:* Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> >
> > *Cc:* Manoj Das <dasmk2k at gmail.com> ; J Kalita <jugalkalita at yahoo.com> ;
> > Indrajit Barua <ibarua at yahoo.com> ; hthakur at comcast.net ; Ginima Barua<shivadoul at yahoo.com>; Dilip/Dil
> > Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com> ; Alpana B. Sarangapani<absarangapani at hotmail.com>;
> > assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > *Sent:* Saturday, March 11, 2006 8:32 AM
> >
> > *Subject:* Acute inferiorty complex
> >
> >
> > Dear Rajen,
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your letter. The points that you have raised in this letter
> > should definitely be discussed in the net.
> >
> >
> >
> > *But, I think what you so correctly said on March 5, 2006 "**Assamese
> > are already suffering from acute inferiorty complex" **   should be
> > given to PRIORITY in the discussion in the assam-net.*
> >
> >
> >
> > I congratulate you for pointing out this terrible thing "inferiorty
> > complex" and most earnestly request you to run a discussion on this
> > point in the net. I am trying to start this discussion by quoting Lachit's
> > * "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"* (My uncle is not greater than my
> > country)".
> >
> >
> >
> > The slogan* "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"* (My uncle is not greater
> > than my country)" is actually a re-statement of what Lord Shrikrishna stated
> > in Bhagavadgita. Killing of grand-uncle Bhishma at the "Declared Battle of
> > Kurukshetra"  was justified by Lord Shrikrishna to establish righteousness.
> > The word "righteousness" is the translation of the word "dharma" of the
> > verses 7&8 Chapter 4 of Bhagavadgita.
> >
> >
> >
> > When Lachit said* "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"* (My uncle is not
> > greater than my country)", he was using the word* "desha"* to mean a
> > Motherland whose defense was our righteous right. What Lachit said at the
> > spur of the moment appears like a "slogan" to us. This may give some answer
> > to the objection of Jugal Kalita [I apologize if I misunderstood him] about
> > slogans.
> >
> >
> >
> > Another slogan is floating in the net* "desh matho eta dharana, thikanar
> > shesh shari"* --- I am finding it difficult to translate this into
> > English because the meaning of the word " *dharana"* is not clear to me.
> > I see "*dharana*" as the sixth step of Patanjali's Ashtanga Yoga:
> > (1) Yama,  (2)Niyama, (3) Asana,  (4) Pranayama, (5) Pratyahara, (6)Dharana,
> > (7) Dhyana, and  (8) Samadhi.
> >
> >
> >
> > The propounder of the slogan* "desh matho eta dharana, thikanar shesh
> > shari"* should give the meaning of the word* "dharana"*and explain why*"dharana"
> > *has been equated with* "desha".* Correct me if I am wrong, I think the
> > slogans like  *"desh matho eta dharana, thikanar shesh shari"* are
> > generating the *acute inferiorty complex"**  *that you pointed out.
> >
> >
> >
> > The propounder & supporters of the slogan* "desh matho eta dharana,
> > thikanar shesh shari"*  should come forward to compare it with  Lachit's
> > * "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi". *
> >
> >
> >
> > In my opinion, Lachit's* "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"* will expel theacute inferiorty complex --- a new, unwanted twist of Assamese mind --- that you so correctly pointed
> > out.
> >
> >
> >
> > With the best wishes,
> >
> > Himendra
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> >
> > *To:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net>
> >
> > *Cc:* hthakur at comcast.net ; Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com> ; Manoj
> > Das <dasmk2k at gmail.com> ; assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:52 PM
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi
> >
> >
> > Dear Himenda:
> >
> > Thanks for your response. Glad to know that the book was a part of your
> > course.
> >
> > Regarding the historical data of the story, I think you need to have
> > some back up. Because it is such a horrifying story, it may give the people
> > a completely different picture about Islam. The actual reality however may
> > be quite different. The reason I am saying this is because there is also a
> > opposite side of the story. According to one theory, the religion that
> > suffered most during the Islamic invasion was mainly Buddhism. Buddhism was
> > an organised religion without any defense which was completely wiped out.
> > Hinduism survived under the caste system. Many Brhamins helped and aided the
> > Islamic rulers in the destruction of Buddhism. Many Buddhist temples
> > overnite become Shiva temples etc. Also  the theory says that there was
> > actually no forced conversion at all from Hindus to Islam. That is why one
> > donot find any high caste Hindus being Muslim. All that conversion that
> > happened were the low caste Hindus and they converted themselves to Islam
> > mainly because of the equality that they gained under Islam and to avoid the
> > exploitation from upper caste Hindus.  Today one finds the whole of
> > Bangladesh a Islamic country which were at one time wholly a Buddhist
> > country. There were hardly any Brahmin or any high caste Hindus in
> > Bagladesh. In fact the exploited downtrodden Hindus were taking shelters
> > from exploitation from Hindus upper caste in those three shelter religions:
> > namely Buddhism, Islam and Christianity.
> >
> >
> >
> > On the other hand I have heard story of enmass village conversion to
> > Islam not by force from Islam but due to rejection from the Hindus.
> > There story appeared in Prantik magazine in Assam, a Brahmin village in
> > Assam was converted to Islam because somebody has thrown beef in the village
> > well, and Hindus have refused to accept the village back as Hindus. The
> > village finally had to take to Islam, The Sharmas started to write Ahmed
> > overnite etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > So there may be many sides of the coin, and one need to be careful in
> > making any general statement before checking the facts.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Rajen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net>
> >
> > *To:* Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> >
> > *Cc:* hthakur at comcast.net ; Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com> ; Manoj
> > Das <dasmk2k at gmail.com> ; assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:28 PM
> >
> > *Subject:* deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi
> >
> >
> > Dear Rajen,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sorry for the delay in replying !
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The statement that you referred in your letter below came up in a panel
> > discussion in 1989 at Harvard University where the manuscript of my book
> > "Don't Burn My Mother!" was discussed in a movie script-writing course. (By
> > the way, I got an A in that course ! My added benefit was that I got to see
> > a number of classic movies with commentaries & discussions  at the Harvard
> > University Movie Club --- those were a few wonderful months for me !)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately, 17 years later now, I don't remember the name of the
> > history scholar who made that statement. It was my fault that I did not
> > follow it up to find it in historical reference or book or article written
> > by any historians. I'll now dig it up and let you know.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Normally, I furnish a word "assumption" before such statements, which
> > you may have noticed in my other writings.*   IF  *   I miss, please let
> > me know, I'll correct immediately ! All historical facts must be supported
> > by cross-reference, according to the principle of historical studies. I
> > really apologize for missing the word "assumption" before this statement. I
> > thank you for correcting me.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In this connection, I urge the netters to ponder over the �story� that
> > Lachit beheaded his own uncle for lapse of duty in the Battle of Saraighat
> > and uttered the famous slogan:* "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi" *(My
> > uncle is not greater than my country) --- this statement was boldly etched
> > at the entrance of the Assam Assembly Hall in Shillong when Shillong was the
> > capital of Assam.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Now, I have heard that some people have raised serious objection that
> > this statement cannot be accepted as historical truth due to lack of
> > cross-reference. The netters may throw some light on this.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Throughout my life, I grew up with Lachit's  *"deshatkoi momai dangar
> > nohoi"* , and it pained me beyond any consolation that I could not
> > include* "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"*  in my article �ATAN BURAGOHAIN
> > SAKO� because some historian would object. However, in spite of all
> > precautions, the idea of �ATAN BURAGOHAIN SAKO� and the idea of the statue
> > of Swargadev Chakradhwaj Singha were rejected on the grounds that the bridge
> > would encourage garbage dumping, the statue would be a sore thumb, the
> > existing white pillar is  an excellent "ABSTRACT" element, the statue of
> > Swargadev Chakradhwaj Singha  would be ugly, *�what they did in their
> > time is fine --- we need not build any *sako* (bridge) or statue to
> > commemorate them�* ------ and a hoard of many other "wise" comments.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I request the netters to find out the historical truth about Lachit's  *"deshatkoi
> > momai dangar nahoi"* and advice me if I can include it in a revised
> > version of the article �ATAN BURAGOHAIN SAKO� .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > With the best wishes,
> >
> > Himendra
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> >
> > *To:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net> ; Shantikam Hazarika<shntikamhaz at gmail.com>
> >
> > *Cc:* assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:17 AM
> >
> > *Subject:* invasion of Indo-Gangetic plains by Muslims
> >
> >
> > >On January 29, 2006, I clearly wrote in the net that �To protect a
> > family during the early period of invasion of Indo-Gangetic plains, if a
> > family of had five >brothers, two would take conversion to Islam to protect
> > the remaining three.
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Himen-da:
> >
> > I just want to ask you one question. Do you have any proof of the above
> > statement?
> >
> > If yes, can you support with any historical reference or book or article
> > written by any historians?
> >
> > I never heard such statement from any quarter. So it is very important
> > that we absolutely find the truth
> >
> > Rajen.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
> >
> >
>
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