[Assam] Acute inferiorty complex IC

[Ram Sarangapani]

>This is the most out@#$% <out@#$%25>^&* charge I have ever seen made aginst
all my discussion.
>Ram: This is simply ridiculous. I even don't know what you are trying to
mean here.

And is it MORE riduculous than what you charged with - ie disrespecting
Himen da?

 >But thanks anyway for me know your mind.
>May be we forced this out from you.
>You see how efficient is this net.

C'da is right - you are on a roll these days.
Now you know my mind, Himen da's and probably others too.

>"We forced this!" Huh!
Yeah - it all came gushing out.

>I intentionally did not tabulate the other charge
>made against Chandan which I am sure he will handle from his side.

Actually most were directed toward you.  So, please feel free to tabulate
them as you please.

 I am on pins & needles out here.

--Ram
On 3/13/06, Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>   >That is fine. But there is big difference here. I sense (could be
> wrong) what Barua is wanting to prove:
> >In short - Pali (read Buddhism) - ....... Assamese
>
>  This is the most out@#$% <out@#$%25>^&* charge I have ever seen made
> aginst all my discussion.
> Ram: This is simply ridiculous. I even don't know what you are trying to
> mean here.
> Pali (read Buddhism) - ....... Assamese ???
> But thanks anyway for me know your mind.
> May be we forced this out from you.
> You see how efficient is this net.
> Heh!!!
> But please do explain what you are trying to explain here by the above.
> Was it because I threw the word 'Pali' recently in one of my emails about
> Assamese?
> Or was it because I am a Buddhism loving agnostic (like Bretrand Russell)?
> But what that has to do with your >Pali (read Buddhism) - ....... Assamese
> ???
> That will be interesting to know what is going on inside people's mind.
> I intentionally did not tabulate the other charge made against Chandan
> which I am sure he will handle from his side.
> Barua
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
> *To:* Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
>  *Cc:* assam at assamnet.org
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 12, 2006 9:50 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Assam] Acute inferiorty complex IC
>
>
>  C'da,
>
>  >*** Ooh! I can sense some hurt feelings here. But Ram, Rajen WAS right.
> You spoke for Himendra Thakur, who pulled the rug right out from under your
> feet to save his own skin :).
>
> Hurt? No. But I was singularly struck by self-righteous. Is there a rule
> in Assamnet that one cannot pass comments on a ongoing discussion?
> What if my comments looked like supporting you or Barua? Would that have
> been OK?
>
> And what is this about "disrespect"? Whether I spoke for or against Himen
> da is of absolutely no consequence here.
> When I wrote what I wrote, I did not think of Himen da or others. I wrote
> what I thought was valid - and WITHOUT an AGENDA.
>
> >I do NOT believe the Oxomiya bhaxa was a progeny of Sanskrit. Even
> without Rajen's very well written arguments I would not have believed that.
> But Rajen's arguments, the best I >have seen thus far, has removed any doubt
> I may have admitted to.
>
> That is fine. But there is big difference here. I sense (could be wrong)
> what Barua is wanting to prove:
> In short - Pali (read Buddhism) - ...... Assamese
> In your case, Pali .(no Indian influence)...... Assamese (Independent
> Assam)
>
> I pay little attention to proofs that have predetermined paths. In fact,
> today, I came across a number of articles etc which indicate it was
> Sanskrit. But it doesn't matter. If it makes you and Barua happy that
> Assamese landed from heaven - so be it
>
> >I love his incisive inquisitiveness that has suddenly come to life :-)),
> what are you who dread the lungi-menace are doing about it, or think ought
> to be done about it, by WHOM, >and WHY is it NOT being done by those who are
> responsible, have the authority and the resources?
>
> Yeah right. A few more of these incisive inquistiveness, and I was about
> to convert to Buddhism. And about the "Lungi Menace" you keep referring, I
> had already indicated - I doesn't matter if the illegals are hordes of
> brahmins coming across. The fact is they are "ILLEGALS" and that if why they
> must be deported.
>
> Will this problem be stemmed? - not a ghost of a chance -and whether Assam
> is Independent or not. The illegal B'deshi have lots of friends in Assam and
> other places.
>
>  >And to be cruelly forthright, YES, those who harbor the notion that the
> Oxomiya bhaxa was sired by Sanskrit ought to be dismissed, marginalized
> and given no 'prosroy' what-so->ever :-).
>
> And absolutely so - even if they have some proof. After all who cares for
> any of that - all we need is to set a goalpost and we can chart the course
> easily.
>
> More later.
>
> --Ram
>
>
> On 3/12/06, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>  Hi Ram:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 12:45 PM -0600 3/12/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
> >
> > Hi C'da,
> >
> >
> >
> > At the risk of violating exclusivity rights as claimed by some, I will
> > attempt to answer your questions.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  *** Ooh! I can sense some hurt feelings here. But Ram, Rajen WAS right.
> > You spoke for Himendra Thakur, who pulled the rug right out from under your
> > feet to save his own skin :).
> >
> >
> > > but I hope that responsibility has NOT ONLY been bestowed on a few
> > select people, who
> > >are claiming that "There is an Indian Invasion".
> >
> >
> >  *** Hey, why worry about them self-appointed 'select few'? Tell us what
> > YOU  want, how YOU see things.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >Are they to be marginalized and ignored just because some NRAs thought
> > Assamese has not come >from Sanskrit?
> >
> >
> >  *** Are you asking me that question Ram with a hope for an answer to
> > help you out or was it a rhetorical question?  But, betting against the odds
> > that you DID ask for MY answer, here it is: NO Ram. I do NOT believe the
> > Oxomiya bhaxa was a progeny of Sanskrit. Even without Rajen's very well
> > written arguments I would not have believed that. But Rajen's arguments, the
> > best I have seen thus far, has removed any doubt I may have admitted to.
> >
> >
> > And to be cruelly forthright, YES, those who harbor the notion that the
> > Oxomiya
> > bhaxa was sired by Sanskrit ought to be dismissed, marginalized and
> > given no 'prosroy' what-so-ever :-).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > IMHO, B'deshi illegal influx is a bigger threat to the very existence
> > of Assam.
> >
> >
> >  *** I read you loud and clear on that Ram. And you have company with
> > HT. But I beg to differ. And I am certain , I too have company. * But
> > the big question remains, as aptly asked by Rajen ( he has been on a roll--I
> > love his incisive inquisitiveness that has suddenly come to life :-)), what
> > are you who dread the lungi-menace are doing about it, or think ought to be
> > done about it, by WHOM, and WHY is it NOT being done by those who are
> > responsible, have the authority and the resources? What do you all propose
> > to do about holding those who are derelict in their duties? And pray HOW?
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > I hope you will consider the questions seriously and like the objective
> > and courageous person I like to think you are, ( as opposed to those who run
> > like the devil and attempt to hide from them) will share your ideas about
> > resolving it :-).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >"Assamese people have inferiority complex because they choose to
> > Sanskritize  ---- blah, blah" its just flabbergasting.  I don't understand
> > what IC has to do with any of this.
> >
> > >Suddenly Assamnet is full of psychologists, socialogists and lingusitic
> > experts who know >exactly why, how and where the language development should
> > go.
> >
> >
> >  *** I will give you a SOME support on that. As I said, I am not buying
> > the IC thingie in its entirety. But there is truth to the perception that
> > certain children of important gods, the keepers of all knowledge by divine
> > rights, do have a soft corner for Sanskrit, some overtly and others
> > covertly. Will you dispute that Ram :-)?
> >
> >
> > BTW, Tilok Daktor may take umbrage over your hostility to mind readers
> > and shrinks, regardless of whether they have always been around in
> > assam-net, or have suddenly appeared from nowhere, a-la 'boiboswa Manu' :-).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > don't claim or give an impression that  I am the resident expert here
> > by any means.
> >
> >
> >  *** No such disclaimers are need Ram.. We have an idea who do know a
> > thing or two about it, who don't, and who plead no-comprendo, if not hide,
> > when challenged :-).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >But those who do so, need to be aware that they would need to defend
> > their arguments more >ardently,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  MORE? Geez Ram! Any more will have to be a blood-bath. I would submit
> > these have been about as passionate as they could be without resorting to
> > fisticuffs like in the Korean Parliament.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >If the Assamnet is a an open forum, then people ought not to have
> > problems with anyone with >opposing views.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  *** Hey, why are you threatening ME with such stuff :-)? Didn't I come
> > to your defense? But Rajen DID have a point about YOUR speaking for HT.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >I take a very dim view of those who cloak their frustrations (inability
> > to respond to tough >questions)
> >
> >
> >  *** Really? WHAT was the tough question Ram? Did I miss it ?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >If the net is NOT open, then as I said before, this ain't the place for
> > me.
> >
> >
> >  *** Now, now Ram! Let us not wear that halo of victim-hood without a
> > good reason. Imagine what will happen to the net when you and I shut up! Do
> > you really want to see that happen? It is our god(?)-given duty to keep the
> > 'tunh-jui' going Ram. Can't let you go on flimsy grounds. People like you or
> > I cannot claim 'hurt-feelings'. Our feelings have long been deadened, or so
> > I thought, haven't they :-)?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Take care.
> >
> >
> > c-da
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >*** Your argument does not hold any water because you ignore CONTEXT.
> > The context of these discussions and debates have been Assam's >attempts at
> > preserving its unique ethnic, cultural and linguistic traditions and
> > asserting them to stave off an invasion by Indian --read Hindi/Hindu >--
> > forces
> >
> > Preserving Assam's unique language, culture, linguistic traditions are
> > great, but I hope that responsibility has NOT ONLY been bestowed on a few
> > select people, who are claiming that "There is an Indian Invasion".
> >
> >
> >
> > What about those who DON'T think that way? Are they NOT people who are
> > thinking of "Preserving Assam's unique language, culture, linguistic
> > traditions "?
> >
> >
> >
> > Are they to be marginalized and ignored just because some NRAs thought
> > Assamese has not come from Sanskrit?
> >
> > >I know Himen-da, Alpana, yourself and others would like to suggest it
> > is B'deshi immigrants and not Indian influences
> >
> >
> >
> > Don't know what others think. IMHO, B'deshi illegal influx is a bigger
> > threat to the very existence of Assam. You and others may not choose to
> > believe so, and may think the bigger threat is INDIA. But its a different
> > topic altogether.
> >
> >
> >
> > Of course Indian (mainland???) does have an influence on Assam, its
> > culture etc. I don't deny that. I am not even sure is its good or bad.
> > Assuming its all bad, what is your solution? As long as Assam remains a part
> > of India, and as long as many Assamese watch Indian movies, tuned to songs,
> > dances from the yonder, I don't see how you are going to solve that. Once
> > Assam become free, maybe, it could be thought along those lines.
> >
> >
> >
> > Lastly, I do believe that when one starts claiming  things
> > like "Assamese people have inferiority complex because they choose to
> > Sanskritize  ---- blah, blah" its just flabbergasting.  I don't understand
> > what IC has to do with any of this.
> >
> > Suddenly Assamnet is full of psychologists, socialogists and lingusitic
> > experts who know exactly why, how and where the language development should
> > go.
> >
> >
> >
> > As for simple me, I am not hung up on X, S or whether Sanskrit came from
> > Assamese or the other way around, or not at all. I don't claim or give an
> > impression that  I am the resident expert here by any means.
> >
> > But those who do so, need to be aware that they would need to defend
> > their arguments more ardently, be less sensitive, and these can well come an
> > from ignoramus like me and not perceive as threats.
> >
> >
> >
> > If the Assamnet is a an open forum, then people ought not to have
> > problems with anyone with opposing views. I take a very dim view of those
> > who cloak their frustrations (inability to respond to tough questions) by
> > finding some other excuse. If the net is NOT open, then as I said before,
> > this ain't the place for me.
> >
> >
> >
> > --Ram
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3/12/06,* Chan Mahanta* <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Ram:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 11:56 AM -0600 3/11/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
> >
> > C'da,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I am surprised!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *** Why am I not :-)?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >One could also argue (quite effectively) that trying to do just the
> > opposite is because of >one's own inferiority complex and insecurity.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *** Your argument does not hold any water because you ignore CONTEXT.
> > The context of these discussions and debates have been Assam's attempts at
> > preserving its unique ethnic, cultural and linguistic traditions and
> > asserting them to stave off an invasion by Indian --read Hindi/Hindu --
> > forces.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > If I read correctly, Himen-da too is an advocate of promoting and
> > preserving Assam's ethnic, cultural and linguistic traditions, but hotly
> > disputes the fear of Indian domination and subjugation, just as you and
> > Alpana and others do. In fact Himen-da goes to ridiculous lengths to imply
> > that Assam is India's 'poitrik xompotti' ( ancestral property). But there is
> > a dichotomy here: *One cannot tout a need for preserving and asserting
> > those Oxomiya ethnic, cultural and linguistic traditions, unless there is a
> > threat for it from somewhere.* I know Himen-da, Alpana, yourself and
> > others would like to suggest it is B'deshi immigrants and not Indian
> > influences, whether intentional ( as in the GoI policy of Indianization) or
> > a fallout of commercial invasion or immigration from other states of people
> > with power, economic as well as governmental. You would argue 'how can there
> > be a threat from India ?' since Assam is a part of India, and Himen-da will
> > assert 'Assam is India--and India is Assam'.  But to anyone who is even
> > minimally informed of the realities  know that these are highly unpersuasive
> > stances. These are  attempts to have it both ways - be it intentional or
> > accidental ( result of not thinking  thru the factors carefully enough).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Therefore, under the context, a need to Sanskritize Oxomiya words and
> > phrases
> >
> > before transliterating them in Roman script can very well be read or
> > interpreted as an attempt to assert India's ancient rights over Assam, one
> > of its defining characteristics, its language, having been given by Indians
> > ( Sanskrit).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > And IF a case of the existence of national Oxomiya INFERIORITY COMPLEX
> > can be made, as Himen-da agrees and you do just like Rajen argues, then this
> > need to Sanskritize Oxomiya words indicates an IC on the part of the
> > perpetrators as well.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Above I qualify the IC issue with an IF, because, even though Rajen
> > makes a good case and I agree with some of it, it is a far more complex
> > issue and I don't buy the idea of an Oxomiya IC as the CAUSE of Assam's
> > condition, as is often IMPLIED here in these debates by those who would
> > place all blame for Assam's condition on its feet -- as if it is all Assam's
> > own damn fault --, and give Indian colonialism a free pass; as an argument
> > to DENY legitimacy to Assam's independence aspirations.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > c-da :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > PS to Alpana:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I write 'Sanskrit' because that is what the widely accepted form
> > transliterating
> >
> > it in English is. It is NOT an Oxomiya word.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >Himenda's attempts to Sanskritize Oxomiya words and phrases,
> > demonstrates his own insecurity and inferiority >complex as an Oxomiya --
> > driving him to Sanskritized versions of words and phrases. He even writes
> > 'desh', as in >deshotkoi'.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > One could also argue (quite effectively) that trying to do just the
> > opposite is because of one's own inferiority complex and insecurity.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > If Assamese is being Sankritized,  would that be a scary scenario for
> > some? If so, why are they scared? Don't they have the confidence that the
> > language is and always has been strong from these onslaughts?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Look at English. One of the reasons its so popular is because it borrows
> > heavily from many languages (many Indian ones included), and the language is
> > ever evolving with inclusions of even words from American rap music.
> >
> > So, the question is: Are Americans or the English have doubts that their
> > language will be diluted because the English language resorts to constantly
> > borrowing from Non Anglo-Saxon/Greek/Lantin languages?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > My whole take on this is: Its fine for any language to borrow unique
> > ways of writing some words from other languages - that only makes the
> > language richer and becomes inclusive. The option of writing a word like Dex
> > in other forms (des or desh) might indicate that the language is not just
> > inclusive but also has several "accepatble" ways of writing certain words.
> > Isn't that more welcoming to others.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I am no expert in these matters, and could be totally off base - but
> > these are my thoughts for the moment and am willing to change them if I
> > could be convinced. AKN should really weigh in this.
> >
> >
> > --Ram
> >
> >
> > On 3/11/06,* Chan Mahanta* <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
> >
> > Very well said Rajen.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > BTW, I think the personal statement in his e-mails, Priyankoo's
> > imagination of 'dex', country--as little more than an idea--'dharona', the
> > last part of an address; is poetic and beautiful, as opposed to the commonly
> > used ones as "mother" for example.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Himenda's attempts to Sanskritize Oxomiya words and phrases,
> > demonstrates his own insecurity and inferiority complex as an Oxomiya --
> > driving him to Sanskritized versions of words and phrases. He even writes
> > 'desh', as in deshotkoi'. Did Lasit Borphukan speak Sanskrit?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I know you said as much. I just wanted to make it clear,lest it is
> > missed; even though it is kind of cruel.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I have some thoughts about the context in which he supposedly uttered
> > the purported quote 'dexotokoi mwmai dangor nohoy', which when I aired last
> > time in assamnet several years back, drew howls of protest from Oxomiyas who
> > accepted the act as one of 'heroism'. Will take that up again when I get a
> > little time. In the meantime, those with tender sensitivities may consider
> > bracing themselves for another round of assaults to their psyches. I am
> > giving fair warning!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > c :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 10:16 AM -0600 3/11/06, Barua25 wrote:
> >
> > Dear Himen-da:
> >
> >   Thanks for your note.
> >
> > Regarding Assamese having an 'inferiority complex' (written as IC
> > henceforth) I have been saying this for decades now. This is something one
> > can only feel or realize seeing the day to day actions of the Assamese
> > people as a group on national or international level. First we will have to
> > 'recognize the fact that we have this IC. >From my side I can write a essay
> > citing examples of Assamese IC. Now some people may not like to agree with
> > me. To them I will simply ask to either counter my arguments or give me some
> > examples whereby we can say that Assamese are not suffering from IC.
> > However, I don't exactly understand when you say we need to discuss this in
> > the net. What we can achieve by discussing this in the net? And I think we
> > have discussed this issue many times in the net.  This is something we can
> > remove by our leaders first by getting rid of this 'IC' themselves and then
> > educating the people by their actions. (*Please note that we use the net
> > not to solve problems but just to use it as a 'sounding borad' to test our
> > idea's. From that angle the net is a very cruel sounding borad. It will hit
> > one back and may hurt if the idea is not sound or true.) *
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regarding the slogan *"deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"* * * I would not
> > like to equate this unnecessarily with Krishna's killing Bhishma simply
> > because it will not serve any purpose unless of course one is trying to make
> > poor Lasit an Assamese Krishna.  I think we should not try to defend or
> > justify Lasit more than what he did. Let us leave it a historical fact and
> > let us try to utilize this fact to the advantage of the future of the
> > Assamese. (BTW please note that we try to write ethnic Assamese phonetics in
> > Roman script in the net as opposed to your Sanskritised transliteration
> > writing. So we would write the phrase more like   *'dexotkoi mwmai
> > dangor nohoy'*. May explain details later. )
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regarding your other  slogan* "desh matho eta dharana, thikanar shesh
> > shari",* all I can say is that so far I know this is a personal
> > statement (a philosophical quote one may say) being used by Priyanku Sarma
> > in the net. Here again please note that Priyanku used the correct Assamese
> > ethnic spelling as : *Dex matho eta dharona, thikonar xex xari...,* and
> > not what you spelled above. (Thank you Priyanku). Probably if there is
> > anything more to its meaning, Priyanku can respond.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Now coming to the meaning of the word 'dharona ', I think you are trying
> > too hard to find the meaning in Sanskrit grammar book. Please note that this
> > is a simple Assamese word, and many a times, the same word may mean slightly
> > different in Sanskrit than in Assamese. We should try to use the Assamese
> > meaning. From that point, 'dharona' is a simple Assamese word, meaning'conception' or 'idea' or 'comment' etc.
> > The meaning is clear when we say the Assamese sentence* "Ei
> > ghotonatw xomporke twmar ki dharona baru?" *Some netters like Alpana and
> > others probably may give you better sentence using the Assamese word*'dharona'
> > *.  Anyhow the full meaning of the Priyanku's quote will be :* A country
> > is nothing an idea which is only required to use as a last phrase in one's
> > address. *    In fact I like this poetic (Omor Khyam type) quote, and I
> > can write volumes in support of this poetic or philosophical statement.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hope this will make some clarifications. More later.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Rajen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net>
> >
> > *To:* Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> >
> > *Cc:* Manoj Das <dasmk2k at gmail.com> ; J Kalita <jugalkalita at yahoo.com> ;
> > Indrajit Barua <ibarua at yahoo.com> ; hthakur at comcast.net ; Ginima Barua<shivadoul at yahoo.com>; Dilip/Dil
> > Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com> ; Alpana B. Sarangapani<absarangapani at hotmail.com>;
> > assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > *Sent:* Saturday, March 11, 2006 8:32 AM
> >
> > *Subject:* Acute inferiorty complex
> >
> >
> > Dear Rajen,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your letter. The points that you have raised in this letter
> > should definitely be discussed in the net.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *But, I think what you so correctly said on March 5, 2006 "**Assamese
> > are already suffering from acute inferiorty complex" **     should be
> > given to PRIORITY in the discussion in the assam-net.*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I congratulate you for pointing out this terrible thing "inferiorty
> > complex" and most earnestly request you to run a discussion on this
> > point in the net. I am trying to start this discussion by quoting Lachit's
> > * "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"* (My uncle is not greater than my
> > country)".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The slogan* "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"* (My uncle is not greater
> > than my country)" is actually a re-statement of what Lord Shrikrishna stated
> > in Bhagavadgita. Killing of grand-uncle Bhishma at the "Declared Battle of
> > Kurukshetra"  was justified by Lord Shrikrishna to establish righteousness.
> > The word "righteousness" is the translation of the word "dharma" of the
> > verses 7&8 Chapter 4 of Bhagavadgita.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > When Lachit said* "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"* (My uncle is not
> > greater than my country)", he was using the word* "desha"* to mean a
> > Motherland whose defense was our righteous right. What Lachit said at the
> > spur of the moment appears like a "slogan" to us. This may give some answer
> > to the objection of Jugal Kalita [I apologize if I misunderstood him] about
> > slogans.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Another slogan is floating in the net* "desh matho eta dharana, thikanar
> > shesh shari"* --- I am finding it difficult to translate this into
> > English because the meaning of the word " *dharana"* is not clear to me.
> > I see "*dharana*" as the sixth step of Patanjali's Ashtanga Yoga:
> > (1) Yama,  (2)Niyama, (3) Asana,  (4) Pranayama, (5) Pratyahara, (6)Dharana,
> > (7) Dhyana, and  (8) Samadhi.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The propounder of the slogan* "desh matho eta dharana, thikanar shesh
> > shari"* should give the meaning of the word* "dharana"*and explain why*"dharana"
> > *has been equated with* "desha".* Correct me if I am wrong, I think the
> > slogans like  *"desh matho eta dharana, thikanar shesh shari"* are
> > generating the *acute inferiorty complex"**  *that you pointed out.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The propounder & supporters of the slogan* "desh matho eta dharana,
> > thikanar shesh shari"*  should come forward to compare it with  Lachit's
> > * "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi". *
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In my opinion, Lachit's* "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"* will expel theacute inferiorty complex --- a new, unwanted twist of Assamese mind --- that you so correctly pointed
> > out.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > With the best wishes,
> >
> > Himendra
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> >
> > *From:* Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> >
> > *To:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net>
> >
> > *Cc:* hthakur at comcast.net ; Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com> ; Manoj
> > Das <dasmk2k at gmail.com> ; assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:52 PM
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi
> >
> >
> > Dear Himenda:
> >
> > Thanks for your response. Glad to know that the book was a part of your
> > course.
> >
> > Regarding the historical data of the story, I think you need to have
> > some back up. Because it is such a horrifying story, it may give the people
> > a completely different picture about Islam. The actual reality however may
> > be quite different. The reason I am saying this is because there is also a
> > opposite side of the story. According to one theory, the religion that
> > suffered most during the Islamic invasion was mainly Buddhism. Buddhism was
> > an organised religion without any defense which was completely wiped out.
> > Hinduism survived under the caste system. Many Brhamins helped and aided the
> > Islamic rulers in the destruction of Buddhism. Many Buddhist temples
> > overnite become Shiva temples etc. Also  the theory says that there was
> > actually no forced conversion at all from Hindus to Islam. That is why one
> > donot find any high caste Hindus being Muslim. All that conversion that
> > happened were the low caste Hindus and they converted themselves to Islam
> > mainly because of the equality that they gained under Islam and to avoid the
> > exploitation from upper caste Hindus.  Today one finds the whole of
> > Bangladesh a Islamic country which were at one time wholly a Buddhist
> > country. There were hardly any Brahmin or any high caste Hindus in
> > Bagladesh. In fact the exploited downtrodden Hindus were taking shelters
> > from exploitation from Hindus upper caste in those three shelter religions:
> > namely Buddhism, Islam and Christianity.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On the other hand I have heard story of enmass village conversion to
> > Islam not by force from Islam but due to rejection from the Hindus.
> > There story appeared in Prantik magazine in Assam, a Brahmin village in
> > Assam was converted to Islam because somebody has thrown beef in the village
> > well, and Hindus have refused to accept the village back as Hindus. The
> > village finally had to take to Islam, The Sharmas started to write Ahmed
> > overnite etc.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > So there may be many sides of the coin, and one need to be careful in
> > making any general statement before checking the facts.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Rajen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net>
> >
> > *To:* Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> >
> > *Cc:* hthakur at comcast.net ; Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com> ; Manoj
> > Das <dasmk2k at gmail.com> ; assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:28 PM
> >
> > *Subject:* deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi
> >
> >
> > Dear Rajen,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sorry for the delay in replying !
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The statement that you referred in your letter below came up in a panel
> > discussion in 1989 at Harvard University where the manuscript of my book
> > "Don't Burn My Mother!" was discussed in a movie script-writing course. (By
> > the way, I got an A in that course ! My added benefit was that I got to see
> > a number of classic movies with commentaries & discussions  at the Harvard
> > University Movie Club --- those were a few wonderful months for me !)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately, 17 years later now, I don't remember the name of the
> > history scholar who made that statement. It was my fault that I did not
> > follow it up to find it in historical reference or book or article written
> > by any historians. I'll now dig it up and let you know.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Normally, I furnish a word "assumption" before such statements, which
> > you may have noticed in my other writings.*   IF  *   I miss, please let
> > me know, I'll correct immediately ! All historical facts must be supported
> > by cross-reference, according to the principle of historical studies. I
> > really apologize for missing the word "assumption" before this statement. I
> > thank you for correcting me.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In this connection, I urge the netters to ponder over the ?story? that
> > Lachit beheaded his own uncle for lapse of duty in the Battle of Saraighat
> > and uttered the famous slogan:* "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi" *(My
> > uncle is not greater than my country) --- this statement was boldly etched
> > at the entrance of the Assam Assembly Hall in Shillong when Shillong was the
> > capital of Assam.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Now, I have heard that some people have raised serious objection that
> > this statement cannot be accepted as historical truth due to lack of
> > cross-reference. The netters may throw some light on this.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Throughout my life, I grew up with Lachit's  *"deshatkoi momai dangar
> > nohoi"* , and it pained me beyond any consolation that I could not
> > include* "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"*  in my article ?ATAN BURAGOHAIN
> > SAKO? because some historian would object. However, in spite of all
> > precautions, the idea of ?ATAN BURAGOHAIN SAKO? and the idea of the statue
> > of Swargadev Chakradhwaj Singha were rejected on the grounds that the bridge
> > would encourage garbage dumping, the statue would be a sore thumb, the
> > existing white pillar is  an excellent "ABSTRACT" element, the statue of
> > Swargadev Chakradhwaj Singha  would be ugly, *?what they did in their
> > time is fine --- we need not build any *sako* (bridge) or statue to
> > commemorate them?* ------ and a hoard of many other "wise" comments.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I request the netters to find out the historical truth about Lachit's  *"deshatkoi
> > momai dangar nahoi"* and advice me if I can include it in a revised
> > version of the article ?ATAN BURAGOHAIN SAKO? .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > With the best wishes,
> >
> > Himendra
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> >
> > *To:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net> ; Shantikam Hazarika<shntikamhaz at gmail.com>
> >
> > *Cc:* assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:17 AM
> >
> > *Subject:* invasion of Indo-Gangetic plains by Muslims
> >
> >
> > >On January 29, 2006, I clearly wrote in the net that ?To protect a
> > family during the early period of invasion of Indo-Gangetic plains, if a
> > family of had five >brothers, two would take conversion to Islam to protect
> > the remaining three.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Himen-da:
> >
> > I just want to ask you one question. Do you have any proof of the above
> > statement?
> >
> > If yes, can you support with any historical reference or book or article
> > written by any historians?
> >
> > I never heard such statement from any quarter. So it is very important
> > that we absolutely find the truth
> >
> > Rajen.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>  ------------------------------
>
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>
>
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