[Assam] Acute inferiorty complex IC

[Ram Sarangapani]

>Looks like you were really hurt, Uh!!
>Sorry about that.
>It is actually a Buddhist trick to extract things from your mind,  used
very sparingly though.
>Take it easy.
>Barua

And someday you must teach all of us your vast Buddhist knowledge and
(Buddhist rope-trick).
As usual, pease continue to think of us as clueless.

And you got me. Now, you know exactly how my mind works and now I am at a
loss - can't think straight!

 >This is the most out@#$% <out@#$%25> ^&* charge I have ever seen made
aginst all my discussion.
>Ram: This is simply ridiculous. I even don't know what you are trying to
mean here.

That Buddhist reference didn't offend you, did it? Sorry about that, but my
suggestion:  just reach into
that vast Buddhist resource you have,  and thou shall find the answer and
maybe even enlightenment!

--Ram


On 3/13/06, Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>   >And is it MORE riduculous than what you charged with - ie disrespecting
> Himen da?
>
>  Looks like you were really hurt, Uh!!
> Sorry about that.
> It is actually a Buddhist trick to extract things from your mind,  used
> very sparingly though.
> Take it easy.
> Barua
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
>  *To:* Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> *Cc:* Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> ; assam at assamnet.org
> *Sent:* Monday, March 13, 2006 1:04 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Assam] Acute inferiorty complex IC
>
>
> >This is the most out@#$% <out@#$%25> ^&* charge I have ever seen made
> aginst all my discussion.
> >Ram: This is simply ridiculous. I even don't know what you are trying to
> mean here.
>
> And is it MORE riduculous than what you charged with - ie disrespecting
> Himen da?
>
>  >But thanks anyway for me know your mind.
> >May be we forced this out from you.
> >You see how efficient is this net.
>
> C'da is right - you are on a roll these days.
> Now you know my mind, Himen da's and probably others too.
>
> >"We forced this!" Huh!
> Yeah - it all came gushing out.
>
> >I intentionally did not tabulate the other charge
> >made against Chandan which I am sure he will handle from his side.
>
> Actually most were directed toward you.  So, please feel free to tabulate
> them as you please.
>
>  I am on pins & needles out here.
>
> --Ram
> On 3/13/06, Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >   >That is fine. But there is big difference here. I sense (could be
> > wrong) what Barua is wanting to prove:
> > >In short - Pali (read Buddhism) - ....... Assamese
> >
> >  This is the most out@#$% <out@#$%25> ^&* charge I have ever seen made
> > aginst all my discussion.
> > Ram: This is simply ridiculous. I even don't know what you are trying to
> > mean here.
> > Pali (read Buddhism) - ....... Assamese ???
> > But thanks anyway for me know your mind.
> > May be we forced this out from you.
> > You see how efficient is this net.
> > Heh!!!
> > But please do explain what you are trying to explain here by the above.
> > Was it because I threw the word 'Pali' recently in one of my emails
> > about Assamese?
> > Or was it because I am a Buddhism loving agnostic (like Bretrand
> > Russell)?
> > But what that has to do with your >Pali (read Buddhism) - .......
> > Assamese ???
> > That will be interesting to know what is going on inside people's mind.
> > I intentionally did not tabulate the other charge made against Chandan
> > which I am sure he will handle from his side.
> > Barua
> >
> >
> >  ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
> > *To:* Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
> >  *Cc:* assam at assamnet.org
> > *Sent:* Sunday, March 12, 2006 9:50 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: [Assam] Acute inferiorty complex IC
> >
> >
> >  C'da,
> >
> >  >*** Ooh! I can sense some hurt feelings here. But Ram, Rajen WAS
> > right. You spoke for Himendra Thakur, who pulled the rug right out from
> > under your feet to save his own skin :).
> >
> > Hurt? No. But I was singularly struck by self-righteous. Is there a rule
> > in Assamnet that one cannot pass comments on a ongoing discussion?
> > What if my comments looked like supporting you or Barua? Would that have
> > been OK?
> >
> > And what is this about "disrespect"? Whether I spoke for or against
> > Himen da is of absolutely no consequence here.
> > When I wrote what I wrote, I did not think of Himen da or others. I
> > wrote what I thought was valid - and WITHOUT an AGENDA.
> >
> > >I do NOT believe the Oxomiya bhaxa was a progeny of Sanskrit. Even
> > without Rajen's very well written arguments I would not have believed that.
> > But Rajen's arguments, the best I >have seen thus far, has removed any doubt
> > I may have admitted to.
> >
> > That is fine. But there is big difference here. I sense (could be wrong)
> > what Barua is wanting to prove:
> > In short - Pali (read Buddhism) - ...... Assamese
> > In your case, Pali .(no Indian influence)...... Assamese (Independent
> > Assam)
> >
> > I pay little attention to proofs that have predetermined paths. In fact,
> > today, I came across a number of articles etc which indicate it was
> > Sanskrit. But it doesn't matter. If it makes you and Barua happy that
> > Assamese landed from heaven - so be it
> >
> > >I love his incisive inquisitiveness that has suddenly come to life
> > :-)), what are you who dread the lungi-menace are doing about it, or think
> > ought to be done about it, by WHOM, >and WHY is it NOT being done by those
> > who are responsible, have the authority and the resources?
> >
> > Yeah right. A few more of these incisive inquistiveness, and I was about
> > to convert to Buddhism. And about the "Lungi Menace" you keep referring, I
> > had already indicated - I doesn't matter if the illegals are hordes of
> > brahmins coming across. The fact is they are "ILLEGALS" and that if why they
> > must be deported.
> >
> > Will this problem be stemmed? - not a ghost of a chance -and whether
> > Assam is Independent or not. The illegal B'deshi have lots of friends in
> > Assam and other places.
> >
> >  >And to be cruelly forthright, YES, those who harbor the notion that
> > the Oxomiya bhaxa was sired by Sanskrit ought to be dismissed,
> > marginalized and given no 'prosroy' what-so->ever :-).
> >
> > And absolutely so - even if they have some proof. After all who cares
> > for any of that - all we need is to set a goalpost and we can chart the
> > course easily.
> >
> > More later.
> >
> > --Ram
> >
> >
> > On 3/12/06, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net > wrote:
> >  Hi Ram:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At 12:45 PM -0600 3/12/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi C'da,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At the risk of violating exclusivity rights as claimed by some, I will
> > > attempt to answer your questions.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  *** Ooh! I can sense some hurt feelings here. But Ram, Rajen WAS
> > > right. You spoke for Himendra Thakur, who pulled the rug right out from
> > > under your feet to save his own skin :).
> > >
> > >
> > > > but I hope that responsibility has NOT ONLY been bestowed on a few
> > > select people, who
> > > >are claiming that "There is an Indian Invasion".
> > >
> > >
> > >  *** Hey, why worry about them self-appointed 'select few'? Tell us
> > > what YOU  want, how YOU see things.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >Are they to be marginalized and ignored just because some NRAs
> > > thought Assamese has not come >from Sanskrit?
> > >
> > >
> > >  *** Are you asking me that question Ram with a hope for an answer to
> > > help you out or was it a rhetorical question?  But, betting against the odds
> > > that you DID ask for MY answer, here it is: NO Ram. I do NOT believe the
> > > Oxomiya bhaxa was a progeny of Sanskrit. Even without Rajen's very well
> > > written arguments I would not have believed that. But Rajen's arguments, the
> > > best I have seen thus far, has removed any doubt I may have admitted to.
> > >
> > >
> > > And to be cruelly forthright, YES, those who harbor the notion that
> > > the Oxomiya
> > > bhaxa was sired by Sanskrit ought to be dismissed, marginalized and
> > > given no 'prosroy' what-so-ever :-).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > IMHO, B'deshi illegal influx is a bigger threat to the very
> > > existence of Assam.
> > >
> > >
> > >  *** I read you loud and clear on that Ram. And you have company with
> > > HT. But I beg to differ. And I am certain , I too have company. * But
> > > the big question remains, as aptly asked by Rajen ( he has been on a roll--I
> > > love his incisive inquisitiveness that has suddenly come to life :-)), what
> > > are you who dread the lungi-menace are doing about it, or think ought to be
> > > done about it, by WHOM, and WHY is it NOT being done by those who are
> > > responsible, have the authority and the resources? What do you all propose
> > > to do about holding those who are derelict in their duties? And pray HOW?
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > I hope you will consider the questions seriously and like the
> > > objective and courageous person I like to think you are, ( as opposed to
> > > those who run like the devil and attempt to hide from them) will share your
> > > ideas about resolving it :-).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >"Assamese people have inferiority complex because they choose to
> > > Sanskritize  ---- blah, blah" its just flabbergasting.  I don't understand
> > > what IC has to do with any of this.
> > >
> > > >Suddenly Assamnet is full of psychologists, socialogists and
> > > lingusitic experts who know >exactly why, how and where the language
> > > development should go.
> > >
> > >
> > >  *** I will give you a SOME support on that. As I said, I am not
> > > buying the IC thingie in its entirety. But there is truth to the perception
> > > that certain children of important gods, the keepers of all knowledge by
> > > divine rights, do have a soft corner for Sanskrit, some overtly and others
> > > covertly. Will you dispute that Ram :-)?
> > >
> > >
> > > BTW, Tilok Daktor may take umbrage over your hostility to mind readers
> > > and shrinks, regardless of whether they have always been around in
> > > assam-net, or have suddenly appeared from nowhere, a-la 'boiboswa Manu' :-).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > don't claim or give an impression that  I am the resident expert
> > > here by any means.
> > >
> > >
> > >  *** No such disclaimers are need Ram.. We have an idea who do know a
> > > thing or two about it, who don't, and who plead no-comprendo, if not hide,
> > > when challenged :-).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >But those who do so, need to be aware that they would need to defend
> > > their arguments more >ardently,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  MORE? Geez Ram! Any more will have to be a blood-bath. I would submit
> > > these have been about as passionate as they could be without resorting to
> > > fisticuffs like in the Korean Parliament.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >If the Assamnet is a an open forum, then people ought not to have
> > > problems with anyone with >opposing views.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  *** Hey, why are you threatening ME with such stuff :-)? Didn't I
> > > come to your defense? But Rajen DID have a point about YOUR speaking for HT.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >I take a very dim view of those who cloak their frustrations
> > > (inability to respond to tough >questions)
> > >
> > >
> > >  *** Really? WHAT was the tough question Ram? Did I miss it ?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >If the net is NOT open, then as I said before, this ain't the place
> > > for me.
> > >
> > >
> > >  *** Now, now Ram! Let us not wear that halo of victim-hood without a
> > > good reason. Imagine what will happen to the net when you and I shut up! Do
> > > you really want to see that happen? It is our god(?)-given duty to keep the
> > > 'tunh-jui' going Ram. Can't let you go on flimsy grounds. People like you or
> > > I cannot claim 'hurt-feelings'. Our feelings have long been deadened, or so
> > > I thought, haven't they :-)?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Take care.
> > >
> > >
> > > c-da
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >*** Your argument does not hold any water because you ignore CONTEXT.
> > > The context of these discussions and debates have been Assam's >attempts at
> > > preserving its unique ethnic, cultural and linguistic traditions and
> > > asserting them to stave off an invasion by Indian --read Hindi/Hindu >--
> > > forces
> > >
> > > Preserving Assam's unique language, culture, linguistic traditions are
> > > great, but I hope that responsibility has NOT ONLY been bestowed on a few
> > > select people, who are claiming that "There is an Indian Invasion".
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > What about those who DON'T think that way? Are they NOT people who are
> > > thinking of "Preserving Assam's unique language, culture, linguistic
> > > traditions "?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Are they to be marginalized and ignored just because some NRAs thought
> > > Assamese has not come from Sanskrit?
> > >
> > > >I know Himen-da, Alpana, yourself and others would like to suggest it
> > > is B'deshi immigrants and not Indian influences
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Don't know what others think. IMHO, B'deshi illegal influx is a bigger
> > > threat to the very existence of Assam. You and others may not choose to
> > > believe so, and may think the bigger threat is INDIA. But its a different
> > > topic altogether.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Of course Indian (mainland???) does have an influence on Assam, its
> > > culture etc. I don't deny that. I am not even sure is its good or bad.
> > > Assuming its all bad, what is your solution? As long as Assam remains a part
> > > of India, and as long as many Assamese watch Indian movies, tuned to songs,
> > > dances from the yonder, I don't see how you are going to solve that. Once
> > > Assam become free, maybe, it could be thought along those lines.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Lastly, I do believe that when one starts claiming  things
> > > like "Assamese people have inferiority complex because they choose to
> > > Sanskritize  ---- blah, blah" its just flabbergasting.  I don't understand
> > > what IC has to do with any of this.
> > >
> > > Suddenly Assamnet is full of psychologists, socialogists and
> > > lingusitic experts who know exactly why, how and where the language
> > > development should go.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As for simple me, I am not hung up on X, S or whether Sanskrit came
> > > from Assamese or the other way around, or not at all. I don't claim or give
> > > an impression that  I am the resident expert here by any means.
> > >
> > > But those who do so, need to be aware that they would need to defend
> > > their arguments more ardently, be less sensitive, and these can well come an
> > > from ignoramus like me and not perceive as threats.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If the Assamnet is a an open forum, then people ought not to have
> > > problems with anyone with opposing views. I take a very dim view of those
> > > who cloak their frustrations (inability to respond to tough questions) by
> > > finding some other excuse. If the net is NOT open, then as I said before,
> > > this ain't the place for me.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --Ram
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 3/12/06,* Chan Mahanta* <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Ram:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At 11:56 AM -0600 3/11/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
> > >
> > > C'da,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I am surprised!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *** Why am I not :-)?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >One could also argue (quite effectively) that trying to do just the
> > > opposite is because of >one's own inferiority complex and insecurity.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *** Your argument does not hold any water because you ignore CONTEXT.
> > > The context of these discussions and debates have been Assam's attempts at
> > > preserving its unique ethnic, cultural and linguistic traditions and
> > > asserting them to stave off an invasion by Indian --read Hindi/Hindu --
> > > forces.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If I read correctly, Himen-da too is an advocate of promoting and
> > > preserving Assam's ethnic, cultural and linguistic traditions, but hotly
> > > disputes the fear of Indian domination and subjugation, just as you and
> > > Alpana and others do. In fact Himen-da goes to ridiculous lengths to imply
> > > that Assam is India's 'poitrik xompotti' ( ancestral property). But there is
> > > a dichotomy here: *One cannot tout a need for preserving and asserting
> > > those Oxomiya ethnic, cultural and linguistic traditions, unless there is a
> > > threat for it from somewhere.* I know Himen-da, Alpana, yourself and
> > > others would like to suggest it is B'deshi immigrants and not Indian
> > > influences, whether intentional ( as in the GoI policy of Indianization) or
> > > a fallout of commercial invasion or immigration from other states of people
> > > with power, economic as well as governmental. You would argue 'how can there
> > > be a threat from India ?' since Assam is a part of India, and Himen-da will
> > > assert 'Assam is India--and India is Assam'.  But to anyone who is even
> > > minimally informed of the realities  know that these are highly unpersuasive
> > > stances. These are  attempts to have it both ways - be it intentional or
> > > accidental ( result of not thinking  thru the factors carefully enough).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Therefore, under the context, a need to Sanskritize Oxomiya words and
> > > phrases
> > >
> > > before transliterating them in Roman script can very well be read or
> > > interpreted as an attempt to assert India's ancient rights over Assam, one
> > > of its defining characteristics, its language, having been given by Indians
> > > ( Sanskrit).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > And IF a case of the existence of national Oxomiya INFERIORITY COMPLEX
> > > can be made, as Himen-da agrees and you do just like Rajen argues, then this
> > > need to Sanskritize Oxomiya words indicates an IC on the part of the
> > > perpetrators as well.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Above I qualify the IC issue with an IF, because, even though Rajen
> > > makes a good case and I agree with some of it, it is a far more complex
> > > issue and I don't buy the idea of an Oxomiya IC as the CAUSE of Assam's
> > > condition, as is often IMPLIED here in these debates by those who would
> > > place all blame for Assam's condition on its feet -- as if it is all Assam's
> > > own damn fault --, and give Indian colonialism a free pass; as an argument
> > > to DENY legitimacy to Assam's independence aspirations.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > c-da :-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > PS to Alpana:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I write 'Sanskrit' because that is what the widely accepted form
> > > transliterating
> > >
> > > it in English is. It is NOT an Oxomiya word.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >Himenda's attempts to Sanskritize Oxomiya words and phrases,
> > > demonstrates his own insecurity and inferiority >complex as an Oxomiya --
> > > driving him to Sanskritized versions of words and phrases. He even writes
> > > 'desh', as in >deshotkoi'.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > One could also argue (quite effectively) that trying to do just the
> > > opposite is because of one's own inferiority complex and insecurity.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If Assamese is being Sankritized,  would that be a scary scenario for
> > > some? If so, why are they scared? Don't they have the confidence that the
> > > language is and always has been strong from these onslaughts?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Look at English. One of the reasons its so popular is because it
> > > borrows heavily from many languages (many Indian ones included), and the
> > > language is ever evolving with inclusions of even words from American rap
> > > music.
> > >
> > > So, the question is: Are Americans or the English have doubts that
> > > their language will be diluted because the English language resorts to
> > > constantly borrowing from Non Anglo-Saxon/Greek/Lantin languages?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > My whole take on this is: Its fine for any language to borrow unique
> > > ways of writing some words from other languages - that only makes the
> > > language richer and becomes inclusive. The option of writing a word like Dex
> > > in other forms (des or desh) might indicate that the language is not just
> > > inclusive but also has several "accepatble" ways of writing certain words.
> > > Isn't that more welcoming to others.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I am no expert in these matters, and could be totally off base - but
> > > these are my thoughts for the moment and am willing to change them if I
> > > could be convinced. AKN should really weigh in this.
> > >
> > >
> > > --Ram
> > >
> > >
> > > On 3/11/06,* Chan Mahanta* <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Very well said Rajen.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > BTW, I think the personal statement in his e-mails, Priyankoo's
> > > imagination of 'dex', country--as little more than an idea--'dharona', the
> > > last part of an address; is poetic and beautiful, as opposed to the commonly
> > > used ones as "mother" for example.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Himenda's attempts to Sanskritize Oxomiya words and phrases,
> > > demonstrates his own insecurity and inferiority complex as an Oxomiya --
> > > driving him to Sanskritized versions of words and phrases. He even writes
> > > 'desh', as in deshotkoi'. Did Lasit Borphukan speak Sanskrit?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I know you said as much. I just wanted to make it clear,lest it is
> > > missed; even though it is kind of cruel.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have some thoughts about the context in which he supposedly uttered
> > > the purported quote 'dexotokoi mwmai dangor nohoy', which when I aired last
> > > time in assamnet several years back, drew howls of protest from Oxomiyas who
> > > accepted the act as one of 'heroism'. Will take that up again when I get a
> > > little time. In the meantime, those with tender sensitivities may consider
> > > bracing themselves for another round of assaults to their psyches. I am
> > > giving fair warning!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > c :-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At 10:16 AM -0600 3/11/06, Barua25 wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Himen-da:
> > >
> > >   Thanks for your note.
> > >
> > > Regarding Assamese having an 'inferiority complex' (written as IC
> > > henceforth) I have been saying this for decades now. This is something one
> > > can only feel or realize seeing the day to day actions of the Assamese
> > > people as a group on national or international level. First we will have to
> > > 'recognize the fact that we have this IC. >From my side I can write a essay
> > > citing examples of Assamese IC. Now some people may not like to agree with
> > > me. To them I will simply ask to either counter my arguments or give me some
> > > examples whereby we can say that Assamese are not suffering from IC.
> > > However, I don't exactly understand when you say we need to discuss this in
> > > the net. What we can achieve by discussing this in the net? And I think we
> > > have discussed this issue many times in the net.  This is something we can
> > > remove by our leaders first by getting rid of this 'IC' themselves and then
> > > educating the people by their actions. (*Please note that we use the
> > > net not to solve problems but just to use it as a 'sounding borad' to test
> > > our idea's. From that angle the net is a very cruel sounding borad. It will
> > > hit one back and may hurt if the idea is not sound or true.) *
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regarding the slogan *"deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"* * * I would not
> > > like to equate this unnecessarily with Krishna's killing Bhishma simply
> > > because it will not serve any purpose unless of course one is trying to make
> > > poor Lasit an Assamese Krishna.  I think we should not try to defend or
> > > justify Lasit more than what he did. Let us leave it a historical fact and
> > > let us try to utilize this fact to the advantage of the future of the
> > > Assamese. (BTW please note that we try to write ethnic Assamese phonetics in
> > > Roman script in the net as opposed to your Sanskritised transliteration
> > > writing. So we would write the phrase more like   *'dexotkoi mwmai
> > > dangor nohoy'*. May explain details later. )
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regarding your other  slogan* "desh matho eta dharana, thikanar shesh
> > > shari",* all I can say is that so far I know this is a personal
> > > statement (a philosophical quote one may say) being used by Priyanku Sarma
> > > in the net. Here again please note that Priyanku used the correct Assamese
> > > ethnic spelling as : *Dex matho eta dharona, thikonar xex xari...,*and not what you spelled above. (Thank you Priyanku). Probably if there is
> > > anything more to its meaning, Priyanku can respond.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Now coming to the meaning of the word 'dharona ', I think you are
> > > trying too hard to find the meaning in Sanskrit grammar book. Please note
> > > that this is a simple Assamese word, and many a times, the same word may
> > > mean slightly different in Sanskrit than in Assamese. We should try to use
> > > the Assamese meaning. From that point, 'dharona' is a simple Assamese
> > > word, meaning 'conception' or 'idea' or 'comment' etc. The meaning is
> > > clear when we say the Assamese sentence* "Ei ghotonatw xomporke twmar
> > > ki dharona baru?" *Some netters like Alpana and others probably may
> > > give you better sentence using the Assamese word* 'dharona' *.  Anyhow
> > > the full meaning of the Priyanku's quote will be :* A country is
> > > nothing an idea which is only required to use as a last phrase in one's
> > > address. *    In fact I like this poetic (Omor Khyam type) quote, and
> > > I can write volumes in support of this poetic or philosophical statement.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hope this will make some clarifications. More later.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Rajen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > *From:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net>
> > >
> > > *To:* Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> > >
> > > *Cc:* Manoj Das <dasmk2k at gmail.com> ; J Kalita <jugalkalita at yahoo.com>; Indrajit
> > > Barua <ibarua at yahoo.com> ; hthakur at comcast.net ; Ginima Barua<shivadoul at yahoo.com>; Dilip/Dil
> > > Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com> ; Alpana B. Sarangapani<absarangapani at hotmail.com>;
> > > assam at assamnet.org
> > >
> > > *Sent:* Saturday, March 11, 2006 8:32 AM
> > >
> > > *Subject:* Acute inferiorty complex
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Rajen,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for your letter. The points that you have raised in this letter
> > > should definitely be discussed in the net.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *But, I think what you so correctly said on March 5, 2006 "**Assamese
> > > are already suffering from acute inferiorty complex" **     should be
> > > given to PRIORITY in the discussion in the assam-net.*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I congratulate you for pointing out this terrible thing "inferiorty
> > > complex" and most earnestly request you to run a discussion on this
> > > point in the net. I am trying to start this discussion by quoting Lachit's
> > > * "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"* (My uncle is not greater than my
> > > country)".
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The slogan* "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"* (My uncle is not greater
> > > than my country)" is actually a re-statement of what Lord Shrikrishna stated
> > > in Bhagavadgita. Killing of grand-uncle Bhishma at the "Declared Battle of
> > > Kurukshetra"  was justified by Lord Shrikrishna to establish righteousness.
> > > The word "righteousness" is the translation of the word "dharma" of the
> > > verses 7&8 Chapter 4 of Bhagavadgita.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > When Lachit said* "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"* (My uncle is not
> > > greater than my country)", he was using the word* "desha"* to mean a
> > > Motherland whose defense was our righteous right. What Lachit said at the
> > > spur of the moment appears like a "slogan" to us. This may give some answer
> > > to the objection of Jugal Kalita [I apologize if I misunderstood him] about
> > > slogans.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Another slogan is floating in the net* "desh matho eta dharana,
> > > thikanar shesh shari"* --- I am finding it difficult to translate this
> > > into English because the meaning of the word " *dharana"* is not clear
> > > to me. I see "*dharana*" as the sixth step of Patanjali's Ashtanga
> > > Yoga: (1) Yama,  (2)Niyama, (3) Asana,  (4) Pranayama, (5) Pratyahara,
> > > (6)Dharana, (7) Dhyana, and  (8) Samadhi.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The propounder of the slogan* "desh matho eta dharana, thikanar shesh
> > > shari"* should give the meaning of the word* "dharana"*and explain why
> > > * "dharana" *has been equated with* "desha".* Correct me if I am
> > > wrong, I think the slogans like  *"desh matho eta dharana, thikanar
> > > shesh shari"* are generating the *acute inferiorty complex"**  *that
> > > you pointed out.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The propounder & supporters of the slogan* "desh matho eta dharana,
> > > thikanar shesh shari"*  should come forward to compare it
> > > with  Lachit's* "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi". *
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In my opinion, Lachit's* "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"* will expel
> > > the acute inferiorty complex ---  a new, unwanted twist of Assamese
> > > mind --- that you so correctly pointed out.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > With the best wishes,
> > >
> > > Himendra
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> > >
> > > *To:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net>
> > >
> > > *Cc:* hthakur at comcast.net ; Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com> ; Manoj
> > > Das <dasmk2k at gmail.com> ; assam at assamnet.org
> > >
> > > *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:52 PM
> > >
> > > *Subject:* Re: deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Himenda:
> > >
> > > Thanks for your response. Glad to know that the book was a part of
> > > your course.
> > >
> > > Regarding the historical data of the story, I think you need to have
> > > some back up. Because it is such a horrifying story, it may give the people
> > > a completely different picture about Islam. The actual reality however may
> > > be quite different. The reason I am saying this is because there is also a
> > > opposite side of the story. According to one theory, the religion that
> > > suffered most during the Islamic invasion was mainly Buddhism. Buddhism was
> > > an organised religion without any defense which was completely wiped out.
> > > Hinduism survived under the caste system. Many Brhamins helped and aided the
> > > Islamic rulers in the destruction of Buddhism. Many Buddhist temples
> > > overnite become Shiva temples etc. Also  the theory says that there was
> > > actually no forced conversion at all from Hindus to Islam. That is why one
> > > donot find any high caste Hindus being Muslim. All that conversion that
> > > happened were the low caste Hindus and they converted themselves to Islam
> > > mainly because of the equality that they gained under Islam and to avoid the
> > > exploitation from upper caste Hindus.  Today one finds the whole of
> > > Bangladesh a Islamic country which were at one time wholly a Buddhist
> > > country. There were hardly any Brahmin or any high caste Hindus in
> > > Bagladesh. In fact the exploited downtrodden Hindus were taking shelters
> > > from exploitation from Hindus upper caste in those three shelter religions:
> > > namely Buddhism, Islam and Christianity.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On the other hand I have heard story of enmass village conversion to
> > > Islam not by force from Islam but due to rejection from the Hindus.
> > > There story appeared in Prantik magazine in Assam, a Brahmin village in
> > > Assam was converted to Islam because somebody has thrown beef in the village
> > > well, and Hindus have refused to accept the village back as Hindus. The
> > > village finally had to take to Islam, The Sharmas started to write Ahmed
> > > overnite etc.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > So there may be many sides of the coin, and one need to be careful in
> > > making any general statement before checking the facts.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Rajen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > *From:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net>
> > >
> > > *To:* Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> > >
> > > *Cc:* hthakur at comcast.net ; Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com> ; Manoj
> > > Das <dasmk2k at gmail.com> ; assam at assamnet.org
> > >
> > > *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:28 PM
> > >
> > > *Subject:* deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Rajen,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sorry for the delay in replying !
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The statement that you referred in your letter below came up in a
> > > panel discussion in 1989 at Harvard University where the manuscript of my
> > > book "Don't Burn My Mother!" was discussed in a movie script-writing course.
> > > (By the way, I got an A in that course ! My added benefit was that I got to
> > > see a number of classic movies with commentaries & discussions  at the
> > > Harvard University Movie Club --- those were a few wonderful months for me
> > > !)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, 17 years later now, I don't remember the name of the
> > > history scholar who made that statement. It was my fault that I did not
> > > follow it up to find it in historical reference or book or article written
> > > by any historians. I'll now dig it up and let you know.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Normally, I furnish a word "assumption" before such statements, which
> > > you may have noticed in my other writings.*   IF  *   I miss, please
> > > let me know, I'll correct immediately ! All historical facts must be
> > > supported by cross-reference, according to the principle of historical
> > > studies. I really apologize for missing the word "assumption" before this
> > > statement. I thank you for correcting me.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In this connection, I urge the netters to ponder over the ?story? that
> > > Lachit beheaded his own uncle for lapse of duty in the Battle of Saraighat
> > > and uttered the famous slogan:* "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi" *(My
> > > uncle is not greater than my country) --- this statement was boldly etched
> > > at the entrance of the Assam Assembly Hall in Shillong when Shillong was the
> > > capital of Assam.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Now, I have heard that some people have raised serious objection that
> > > this statement cannot be accepted as historical truth due to lack of
> > > cross-reference. The netters may throw some light on this.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Throughout my life, I grew up with Lachit's  *"deshatkoi momai dangar
> > > nohoi"* , and it pained me beyond any consolation that I could not
> > > include* "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"*  in my article ?ATAN
> > > BURAGOHAIN SAKO? because some historian would object. However, in spite of
> > > all precautions, the idea of ?ATAN BURAGOHAIN SAKO? and the idea of the
> > > statue of Swargadev Chakradhwaj Singha were rejected on the grounds that the
> > > bridge would encourage garbage dumping, the statue would be a sore thumb,
> > > the existing white pillar is  an excellent "ABSTRACT" element, the
> > > statue of Swargadev Chakradhwaj Singha  would be ugly, *?what they did
> > > in their time is fine --- we need not build any *sako* (bridge) or
> > > statue to commemorate them?* ------ and a hoard of many other "wise"
> > > comments.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I request the netters to find out the historical truth about
> > > Lachit's  *"deshatkoi momai dangar nahoi"* and advice me if I can
> > > include it in a revised version of the article ?ATAN BURAGOHAIN SAKO? .
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > With the best wishes,
> > >
> > > Himendra
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > *From:* Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> > >
> > > *To:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net> ; Shantikam Hazarika<shntikamhaz at gmail.com>
> > >
> > > *Cc:* assam at assamnet.org
> > >
> > > *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:17 AM
> > >
> > > *Subject:* invasion of Indo-Gangetic plains by Muslims
> > >
> > >
> > > >On January 29, 2006, I clearly wrote in the net that ?To protect a
> > > family during the early period of invasion of Indo-Gangetic plains, if a
> > > family of had five >brothers, two would take conversion to Islam to protect
> > > the remaining three.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Himen-da:
> > >
> > > I just want to ask you one question. Do you have any proof of the
> > > above statement?
> > >
> > > If yes, can you support with any historical reference or book or
> > > article written by any historians?
> > >
> > > I never heard such statement from any quarter. So it is very important
> > > that we absolutely find the truth
> > >
> > > Rajen.
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > assam mailing list
> > > assam at assamnet.org
> > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > assam mailing list
> > > assam at assamnet.org
> > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >  ------------------------------
> >
> >  _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
> >
>
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