[Assam] Nirvana of the soul
Chan Mahanta
cmahanta at charter.net
Thu Mar 16 20:28:22 PST 2006
>the strangest part is that there is no faith in Hinduism
*** Indeed it IS strange! Because if there is NO
faith, then Hinduism's gods and goddesses, its
concept of SOUL and its existence are based on
solid PROOF . Unlike those well-meaning but
misled atheists, who do not believe in a soul (
because that would require FAITH), the Hindus
believe in that SOUL, but sans faith.
Powerful and superior logic here, something this
poor lost soul is unable to fathom.
Can anyone help? Ram perhaps? I would have asked
the writer himself, if I could. But I suspect my
questions won't be honored :-).
cm
At 6:33 PM -0500 3/16/06, Himendra Thakur wrote:
>Dear Alpona,
>
>
>
>Somebody sent me a greeting Happy Holi. Have a
>lot of fun with colors! --- from where I picked
>up the word fun which is Ananda --- bliss
>--- joy --- happiness --- !!!
>
>
>
>Human babies start to smile at about 4 months of
>age. Other than the humans, no other living
>beings know how to smile or laugh. Animals run
>their lives with blind instincts. Human beings
>are capable of looking back at their own
>instincts because they are endowed with
>Consciousness.
>
>
>
>Looking within, human beings feel the
>existence of a soul within. They realize that
>the soul within is different from the body.
>
>
>
>This is a unique experience of every individual.
>However, many well-meaning knowledgeable people,
>who call themselves Atheists, deny this. They
>do not accept the existence of the soul within.
>They argue that the feeling that there is a
>soul within is a result of peer pressure.
>Although it may give some comfort, some solace,
>or some relief in this otherwise dry and dreary
>world, such a feeling maybe unreal and untrue.
>
>
>
>The dispute is going on for centuries. Since my
>knowledge is extremely limited, I follow some
>sort of a principle of uncertainty !!
>
>By adhering to a feeling that a soul exists,
>that the soul is different from the body, and
>that whereas the body will perish, the soul will
>not, people face one inevitable question: What
>happens to the soul when the body dies? Every
>religion has its own answer: the Semitic
>religions believe in various forms of eternal
>hell &/or eternal heaven, Hinduism and Buddhism
>believe in different form of transmigration of
>the soul. Since my knowledge is extremely
>limited, I do not want to discuss about the
>Semitic religions, because they maybe offended
>if I make a mistake. However, we may continue
>the discussion about the Hindu faith --- and
>touch a bit of Buddhism.
>
>Please share with us as to what you have been
>reading many books on 'life after life' lately.
>
>As for it says that there is an astral world
>where the soul goes after leaving the earth
>plane and lives happily before deciding to
>re-incarnate - which could be decades in human
>years. The soul comes down to the earth to
>acquire knowledge and then goes back to the
>astral plane - but to a higher level I must
>point out that these assertions are based on
>belief and not on any proof.
>
>As for the Hindu faith, the strangest part is
>that there is no faith in Hinduism ---every
>individual is free to believe anything suitable
>to the mental level of that individual, there is
>no order, no command, no doctrine, no dogma,
>no conversion, no exclusion, no punishment,
>--- joto mot toto poth (as many opinions, that
>many paths) --- if YajurVeda talks about
>Boikuntho as an astral plane at a higher
>level, so does Mandukya Upanishad talk about
>Advaita leading to Nirvana.
>
>
>
>Referring to astral plane of Boikuntha where the
>soul will go for 'life after life', you
>asked Is that where one goes after they achieve
>Nirvana? As I understand, Nirvana is not Death.
>It is a State of Existence.
>
>
>
>Let us look at the last verse of Mandukya Upanishad:
>
>Amatra --- dimensionless
>
>Chaturtha --- this is the fourth state
>
>Avyvaharya --- nothing is happening. Time is Zero
>
>Prapancha upashamah --- all human emotions are quenched
>
>Siva --- Eternal Bliss
>
>Advaita --- this is Unique, Non-dual
>
>Evam onkara atma eva --- this omkara is the soul
>
>Shangvishati atmana atmanam --- only soul can (comprehend and) enter into soul
>
>Yah evam veda yah evam veda --- look at this, look at this.
>
>
>
>This Upanishad from the Atharva Veda tells the
>reader about Advaita that will lead to the state
>of Nirvana: All Dimensions are Zero --- there is
>no length, no breadth, no depth; Time is Zero,
>nothing is happening; All human emotions are
>quenched --- there is no pain, no sorrow, no
>joy, no hope, no despair, no love, no hatred ---
>this is Nirvana.
>
>
>
>Nirvana is seen as complete freedom --- termed
>as moksha --- which became the most covetable
>goal of life in Hinduism and Buddhism. After
>attaining moksha, a person does not need any
>fame, glory, family, friends, village, country
>--- such a person is wrapped up only in his or
>her own individuality which is absolutely free.
>They do not work, because work will bring
>bondage into their life. Who will feed them?
>
>
>
>In Bhagavadgita, Shrikrishna reiterated the goal
>of moksha. In the Second Chapter, He preached
>the imperishability and indestructibility of the
>soul, followed by a brief advice about the path
>of wisdom and stabilization of the mind as
>sthitaprajna, arriving at Nirvana in the last
>verse of the Second Chapter.
>
>
>
>Gita would have ended there. Problem comes up
>when Arjuna starts the Third Chapter of
>Bhagavadgita with the most penetrating question:
>IF I can achieve Nirvana in this way, why are
>you engaging me into work?
>
>
>
>You shall work because you are a part of
>Nature was Shrikrishnas reply [3-5].
>
>
>
>Even after attaining Nirvana, Shrikrishna says
>very clearly in Bhagavadgita, one must continue
>to work, because one is a part of Nature.
>Agreeing that blind work under the blind forces
>of the blind instincts of Nature will create
>bondage, Shrikrishna preaches a unique method of
>working without attachment which will
>eliminate bondage.
>
>
>
>Working without attachment does not mean working
>without purpose. The only way one can perform
>unattached work will be to work for the purpose
>of the good of the society, termed as
>LOKASANGRAHA [3-20,25] --- which was defined by
>Dr. Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan as to Spiritualize
>the Society.
>
>
>
>This is where I had to bring forth the Vision
>from Chandogya Upanishad --- when all dimensions
>are zero, Length is Zero, Time is Zero, Infinite
>Mass is in the state of the Eternal Cosmic Dance
>of Shiva, transferring Matter from Energy into
>Waves ---- [this is the cover-page of the drama
>NIRVANA] --- in that enormous Sky, the Rishi of
>Chandogya Upanishad saw the Triumph of Human
>Consciousness, Love.
>
>
>
>When we look at the blue sunny sky in a lazy
>Sunday afternoon and watch the clouds floating
>at distance --- we try to give name to pieces of
>cloud that break up and become different --- we
>give up because the clouds are not our children
>whom we could give a name and keep --- we do see
>Love in the Sky.
>
>
>
>It is Human Consciousness that leads us to feel
>the Sky. Looking at the Sky, we see broken
>airplanes, spacecraft debris and the galaxies
>--- these are all the Cosmic Dance of Particles.
>It is Human Consciousness that leads us to see
>Joy... that is not bound by the pleasure and
>pain of the world. Joy ... that is not bound by
>hope ... hope is another name for deception, a
>secret tunnel of despair. Joy ... that is not
>bound by possessive love ... hatred is the other
>face of that kind of love. This is the Joy of
>pure, causeless, unconditional love ... like
>our galaxy blue sky.
>
>
>
>I started this letter with babies who start to
>smile at about 4 months of age, I then wondered
>about the existence of the soul within --- now I
>find that I have to sequence them properly with
>human consciousness:
>
>
>
>The sequence is sat-chit-ananda
>
>Sat --- Existence of the Soul,
>
>Chit --- Human Consciousness,
>
>Ananda --- Joy of pure, causeless, unconditional love
>
>
>
>To realize this, we need the State of Nirvana in our heart.
>
>
>
>With love to everybody,
>
>Himendra
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:absarangapani at hotmail.com>Alpana B. Sarangapani
>To:
><mailto:hthakur at comcast.net>hthakur at comcast.net
>; <mailto:barua25 at hotmail.com>barua25 at hotmail.com
>Cc: <mailto:dasmk2k at gmail.com>dasmk2k at gmail.com
>;
><mailto:dilipdeka at yahoo.com>dilipdeka at yahoo.com
>; <mailto:ibarua at yahoo.com>ibarua at yahoo.com ;
><mailto:jkk2020 at aim.com>jkk2020 at aim.com ;
><mailto:assam at assamnet.org>assam at assamnet.org
>Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 11:45 AM
>Subject: RE: Happy Phakua !
>
>Dear Himendra-da:
>
>Could you tell us more about it? Is it about the
>nirvana of the soul? Is your book for sale?
>
>Also, does this or any of your books talk about
>the soul? What exactly does hinduism say about
>it? Do different souls have connection to each
>other?
>
>I've been reading many books on 'life after
>life' lately, where it says that there is an
>astral world where the soul goes after leaving
>the earth plane and lives happily before
>deciding to re-incarnate - which could be
>decades in human years. The soul comes down
>to the earth to acquire knowledge and then goes
>back to the astral plane - but to a higher level.
>
>That higher level could be the 'Boikuntho' (I
>think YajurVeda talks about it) that we hear
>about. Is that where one goes after they achieve
>Nirvana? And is Boikuntha the paradise of
>Krishna only, what about Shiva and the other
>hindu Gods?
>
>Again, please do let me know more about your
>books and keep sending those interesting
>anecdotes that you so beautifully put. Also,
>please let me know of any books that might have
>any information on the soul - with different
>beliefs, and not necessarily only hinduism.
>
>You can send me the info but I thought others
>might have some info and would like to chime in
>when they do or just would like to know.
>
>Thank you for sending the information.
>
>With regards,
>
>Alpana.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: "Himendra Thakur" <hthakur at comcast.net>
>To: "Rajen Barua" <barua25 at hotmail.com>
>CC: "Manoj Das" <dasmk2k at gmail.com>,"Alpana B.
>Sarangapani"
><absarangapani at hotmail.com>,"Dilip/Dil Deka"
><dilipdeka at yahoo.com>,<hthakur at comcast.net>,"Indrajit
>Barua"
><ibarua at yahoo.com>,<jkk2020 at aim.com>,<assam at assamnet.org>
>Subject: Happy Phakua !
>Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:06:35 -0500
>
>Dear Rajen,
>
>Happy Phakua ! To you and everybody in the net!
>
>Ananda is the essential core of Existence ---
>that's what Shri Krishna perpetuated with Holi
>on the Full Moon Day of the month Phalguna.
>Attached please find the cover-page of my latest
>drama NIRVANA dedicated to sat-chit-ananda.
>
>If you want to hear more about it, please contact me!
>
>With love to everybody,
>Himendra
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:barua25 at hotmail.com>Rajen Barua
>To: <mailto:hthakur at comcast.net>Himendra Thakur
>Cc:
><mailto:priyankoo123 at rediffmail.com>priyankoo
>sarma ; <mailto:absarangapani at hotmail.com>Alpana
>B. Sarangapani ;
><mailto:dilipdeka at yahoo.com>Dilip/Dil Deka ;
><mailto:jkk2020 at aim.com>jkk2020 at aim.com ;
><mailto:ibarua at yahoo.com>Indrajit Barua ;
><mailto:dasmk2k at gmail.com>Manoj Das ;
><mailto:assamrs at gmail.com>Ram Sarangapani ;
><mailto:assam at assamnet.org>assam at assamnet.org
>Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 9:29 AM
>Subject: Re: Acute inferiorty complex/ Assamese IC
>
>Himenda:
>If you go to any good Bookshop in Assam and ask
>for the Assamese dictionary written by Sumant
>Chaliha (I may be wrong in his spelling of the
>name), they will proudly sell it to you.
>Yes, I think you still need to respond with your
>comments to the question on Illegal Immigration
>(Bangladesh govt has a control switch!) and on
>the Assamese transliteration standards (yours
>vs. Priyanku's).
>Rajen
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:hthakur at comcast.net>Himendra Thakur
>To: <mailto:barua25 at hotmail.com>Barua25
>Cc:
><mailto:priyankoo123 at rediffmail.com>priyankoo
>sarma ; <mailto:absarangapani at hotmail.com>Alpana
>B. Sarangapani ;
><mailto:dilipdeka at yahoo.com>Dilip/Dil Deka ;
><mailto:jkk2020 at aim.com>jkk2020 at aim.com ;
><mailto:ibarua at yahoo.com>Indrajit Barua ;
><mailto:dasmk2k at gmail.com>Manoj Das ;
><mailto:assamrs at gmail.com>Ram Sarangapani ;
><mailto:assam at assamnet.org>assam at assamnet.org
>Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 10:28 PM
>Subject: Re: Acute inferiorty complex/ Assamese IC
>
>Dear Rajen,
>
>Where can I find the dictionary written by
>Engineer Sumant Chaliha? That will be a great
>help.
>
>If I missed replying to your questions, that
>must have been an oversight on my part for which
>I apologize. Kindly send me the questions if you
>do not mind. I am sorry for the inconvenience.
>
>With the best wishes,
>Himendra
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>From: <mailto:barua25 at hotmail.com>Barua25
>To: <mailto:hthakur at comcast.net>Himendra Thakur
>Cc: <mailto:ibarua at yahoo.com>Indrajit Barua ;
><mailto:absarangapani at hotmail.com>Alpana B.
>Sarangapani ;
><mailto:dilipdeka at yahoo.com>Dilip/Dil Deka ;
><mailto:jkk2020 at aim.com>jkk2020 at aim.com ;
><mailto:dasmk2k at gmail.com>Manoj Das ;
><mailto:priyankoo123 at rediffmail.com>priyankoo
>sarma ;
><mailto:assam at assamnet.org>assam at assamnet.org
>Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 6:04 PM
>Subject: Re: Acute inferiorty complex/ Assamese IC
>
> >I did not "drag" Assam Sahitya Sabha into it
>--- I sincerely believed that Assam Sahitya
>Sabha had some position in >this spelling
>problem.
>
>For your information, ASS never approved any
>standardization of Assamese transliteration
>ever. So when you ask the question, has the new
>system been approved by ASS, I would say, they
>never did even the old system. So now you know
>that it is not a good idea to approacj ASS for
>guidance. Let them live in haven with their
>ornamental positions. So far Assamese spelling
>is concverned, our Engineer Sumant Chaliha wrote
>a dictionary recently which is being claimed as
>an athority on this. So it is always
>individuals against org who actually do the work.
>
> >our real priority problem is losing the land,
>Bangladesh swallowing Assam with the help
>from Assamese betrayers --->problem aggravated
>by the acute inferiority complex that you
>identified ---- this is such a huge problem
>that >everything else appear small.
>
>Let us go with you on the above. If you really
>think this is the problem, then we need to
>address it correctly. If you remember we
>discussed about this problem. So far I remember,
>you were supposed to respond to my questions on
>this which you never did. That is very important
>so that we can go to the root of the problem.
>
> >As for the spelling of my Assamese words in
>the net, I appeal to the netters to correct me
>whenever I make a >mistake. That's how I'll be
>able to learn the new spelling system.
>
>So far as the net is concerned, nobody here
>claim to be an authority. Nobody is saying you
>are wrong. In fact we are all trying to evolve a
>standardization system of transliteration of the
>Assamese phonetics. Frankly speaking we found
>that the existing system, if there is one, is no
>good for Assamese. So we are on our own. We
>look forward to your positive contribution. In
>fact we can start with Priyankus transliteration
>and yours. Now that we all know where we are,
>would you like to comment on this whether you
>think yours is correct or Priyanku's. I think
>that will be a good starting point.
>
>Rajen
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:hthakur at comcast.net>Himendra Thakur
>To: <mailto:barua25 at hotmail.com>Barua25
>Cc: <mailto:ibarua at yahoo.com>Indrajit Barua ;
><mailto:absarangapani at hotmail.com>Alpana B.
>Sarangapani ;
><mailto:dilipdeka at yahoo.com>Dilip/Dil Deka ;
><mailto:jkk2020 at aim.com>jkk2020 at aim.com ;
><mailto:dasmk2k at gmail.com>Manoj Das ;
><mailto:priyankoo123 at rediffmail.com>priyankoo
>sarma ;
><mailto:assam at assamnet.org>assam at assamnet.org
>Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 2:27 PM
>Subject: Re: Acute inferiorty complex/ Assamese IC
>
>Dear Rajen,
>
>I did not reject Priyanku's way of writing" ---
>what happened was that I could not find his
>material in my computer and I rewrote it to save
>time --- and my spellings came out to be as bad
>as what Phulda (Jnanananda Sharma Pathak ---
>we call him by his nickname "Phulda") did with
>the old style of spelling in his article in the
>Assam Tribune today !!
>
>I did not "drag" Assam Sahitya Sabha into it ---
>I sincerely believed that Assam Sahitya
>Sabha had some position in this spelling
>problem. As for me, I'll go by whatever people
>ask me to do on these kind of matters --- so far
>as I am concerned, our real prority problem is
>losing the land, Bangladesh swallowing Assam
>with the help from Assamese betrayers
>--- problem aggravated by the acute inferiority
>complex that you identified ---- this is such a
>huge problem that everything else appear small.
>
>As for the spelling of my Assamese words in the
>net, I appeal to the netters to correct me
>whenever I make a mistake. That's how I'll be
>able to learn the new spelling system.
>
>With love to everybody,
>Himendra
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> and changed to Sanskrit transliteration which
>we will still like to hear from you
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:barua25 at hotmail.com>Barua25
>To: <mailto:hthakur at comcast.net>Himendra Thakur
>Cc:
><mailto:priyankoo123 at rediffmail.com>priyankoo
>sarma ; <mailto:dasmk2k at gmail.com>Manoj Das ;
><mailto:jkk2020 at aim.com>jkk2020 at aim.com ;
><mailto:ibarua at yahoo.com>Indrajit Barua ;
><mailto:dilipdeka at yahoo.com>Dilip/Dil Deka ;
><mailto:absarangapani at hotmail.com>Alpana B.
>Sarangapani ; <mailto:assamrs at gmail.com>Ram
>Sarangapani ;
><mailto:assam at assamnet.org>assam at assamnet.org
>Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 2:53 PM
>Subject: Re: Acute inferiorty complex/ Assamese IC
>
>Dear Himenda:
>Thanks for your response. I was holding not to
>respond to you based on Ram's comments because I
>did not know if agree to his view. As I can see
>now, your reason for his Sanskritization was
>unintentional. That leaves room for our future
>discussion on the subject in a rational manner.
>I am sure we can discuss this separately later.
>
>Regarding the Assamese transliteration, if you
>will remember, the question arose only because
>you changed the Priyankus transliteration while
>quoting him:
>
>Priyanku wrote: Dex matho eta dharona, thikonar xex xari...,
>You wrote: Desh matho eta dharana, thikanar shesh shari
>and asked him to expalin.
>We are still trying to figure out why you
>rejected Priyanku's way of writing and changed
>to Sanskrit transliteration which we will still
>like to hear from you.
>
>Please donot try to drag ASS into this business
>which is not theirs. I don't know if you know it
>or not, during the last 70 years, ASS has been a
>completely non productive organization so far
>any contribution to the Assamese language or
>even the unity of the Assamese is concerned. It
>has not contributed anything either in
>standarding the Assamese spellings or
>standardizing the Roman transliteration etc.
>Now ex ASS President is wrongly claiming the
>word ASSAM is a British coin word which it is
>not. He also is claiming that the letter S can
>represent the Assanese guttural X sound which it
>does not. ASS even shy away from coming up a
>good definition of the Assamese. I think ASS
>has turned into an intellectually defunct org
>and the highest epitome of Assamese IC. So do
>you really believe that anybody can expect
>anything effective from ASS. In my opinion, ASS
>is a highly politicized ornamental org just for
>its name which has actually dividing the
>Assamese community into Tai-Ahom, Bodo, Tiwa
>etc. Whatever contribution is being made to the
>Assamese language and literature during the last
>70 years, is being made due to
>individual contributions of some dedicated
>people who are determined to stay outside ASS (I
>mean people like Bhabendra Nath Saikia
>etc). Also you probably know the ongoing debate
>for the proper Roman script spelling of the word
>for (O+DontiyoXO+MO) = OXOM. Have you so far
>seen any contribution from ASS at all on the
>subject?
>
>In view of above, if you are honest to yourself
>and want to really make any contribution to the
>land of your birth, please donot try to name
>these big sounding organizations. Do it on your
>own like so many Assamese people who have done
>before without getting into official sanctions
>of ASS. Otherwise if you too are after just for
>the name, please go ahead, the netters will
>understand your position.
>
>Please don't worry about me being influenced by
>Chandan. We are all too matured to be influenced
>by anybody. We have our own strong views. Please
>take it that when I write something, it is
>coming from my heart with 100 honesty and
>sincereity and conviction. These questions are
>coming from me, and I hope you will respond with
>same honesty and sincereity
>Thanks
>Rajen
>
>
>---- Original Message -----
>
>From: <mailto:hthakur at comcast.net>Himendra Thakur
>To: <mailto:barua25 at hotmail.com>Barua25
>Cc:
><mailto:priyankoo123 at rediffmail.com>priyankoo
>sarma ; <mailto:dasmk2k at gmail.com>Manoj Das ;
><mailto:jkk2020 at aim.com>jkk2020 at aim.com ;
><mailto:ibarua at yahoo.com>Indrajit Barua ;
><mailto:dilipdeka at yahoo.com>Dilip/Dil Deka ;
><mailto:absarangapani at hotmail.com>Alpana B.
>Sarangapani ; <mailto:assamrs at gmail.com>Ram
>Sarangapani ;
><mailto:assam at assamnet.org>assam at assamnet.org
>Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 12:37 PM
>Subject: Acute inferiorty complex
>
>Dear Rajen,
>
>
>
>I am a little late in replying to your letter
>---once again --- I hope you will not mind. I
>had to work on another deadline somewhere else.
>I also had to attend a friends family who ran
>into a bereavement.
>
>
>
>I am sorry I made mistakes in the spellings ---
>in fact, I do not know the new Assamese
>phonetics in Roman script ---- I wrote what I
>knew, just like what respected Jnanananda Sharma
>Pathak wrote in the Assam Tribune today in his
>beautiful article Mystical Yearnings about the
>late Parbotiprasad Barua --- it is difficult to
>get rid of old habits you grow up with!
>
>
>
>If the Assamese phonetics in Roman script has
>been accepted by Asom Sahitya Sabha, Guwahati
>University, Dibrugarh University and other
>authorities, there should be some books [kindly
>inform me] from which I could learn the new
>spelling system.
>
>
>
>Even then, I may still make a mistake. Please do
>not be influenced by Chandan Mahantas foul
>suspicion that Himendas attempts to
>Sanskritize Oxomiya words and phrases
>demonstrates his own insecurity and inferiority
>complex as an Oxomiya -- driving him to
>Sanskritized versions of words and phrases. He
>even writes 'desh', as in deshotkoi', etc. I do
>not know how the netters will digest Chandan
>Mahantas brickbats like Did Lasit Borphukan
>speak Sanskrit?
>
>
>
>As for my spelling mistakes, I appeal to the
>netters to please correct me whenever you find
>an error.
>
>
>
>The subject of my letter to you was the huge
>concern that you so appropriately pointed out in
>the net on March 5 about the Acute Inferiority
>Complex of the Assamese --- [I did not know
>that this was discussed in the net before] ---
>this is now overshadowed by another discussion
>of Sanskritization, which is opposed by many
>netters.
>
>
>
>Under the main topic of the Acute Inferiority
>Complex of the Assamese , I was appealing to
>the netters to discuss these two slogans:
>
>
>
>(1) Dex matho eta dharona, thikonar xex xari -------by Priyanku Sharma
>
>(2) Dexotkoi mwmai dangor nohoy --------------------- by Lasit Borphukan
>
>
>
>The #2 was uttered by Lasit in the heat of a
>battle, but it became a slogan later on. I
>agree with you that Let us leave it a
>historical fact and let us try to utilize this
>fact to the advantage of the future of the
>Assamese.
>
>
>
>About the #1 above, I thank you for clarifying
>that Priyanku's quote will be : A country is
>nothing an idea which is only required to use as
>a last phrase in one's address. In fact I like
>this poetic (Omor Khyam type) quote, and I can
>write volumes in support of this poetic or
>philosophical statement.
>
>
>
>I also thank Dilip Deka for his clarification
>The proper translation would be, "Country is
>just a concept, the last line of a
>street address."
>
>
>
>Those who feel bound to the borders of a country
>also accept the borders of village, city, state,
>and province. Do these borders mean anything? It
>is nothing but an attempt to keep out those who
>are not like you and that is demented.
>
>Looking at the positive side, national or
>regional pride, and the diversity associated
>with it add color to life. If the whole world
>adopts one way say american way of life and its
>culture, life itself would become dull.
>
>
>
>In #2 above, dex (the country) is held above
>family relations, whereas in #1, dex (the
>country) is degraded to something which is only
>required to use as a last phrase in one's
>address or to something that will be just "the
>last line of a street address."
>
>
>
>This idea appeals to young people as it did to
>the flower children of the 1960s who talked
>about the Those who feel bound to the borders
>of a country also accept the borders of village,
>city, state, and province. Do these borders mean
>anything? In the 1960s, growing in the
>aftermath of the Second World War where 30
>million people died, growing under the shadow of
>the Korea War and Vietnam War, young people
>revolted and took that line of thinking.
>
>
>
>I request the netters to discuss whether #2 is
>an expression of "Positive Self-confidence",
>whereas the #1 opens a door to Acute
>Inferiority Complex of the Assamese .
>
>
>
>With love to everybody,
>
>Himendra
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>From: <mailto:barua25 at hotmail.com>Barua25
>To: <mailto:hthakur at comcast.net>Himendra Thakur
>Cc: <mailto:dasmk2k at gmail.com>Manoj Das ;
><mailto:jugalkalita at yahoo.com>J Kalita ;
><mailto:ibarua at yahoo.com>Indrajit Barua ;
><mailto:hthakur at comcast.net>hthakur at comcast.net
>; <mailto:shivadoul at yahoo.com>Ginima Barua ;
><mailto:dilipdeka at yahoo.com>Dilip/Dil Deka ;
><mailto:absarangapani at hotmail.com>Alpana B.
>Sarangapani ;
><mailto:assam at assamnet.org>assam at assamnet.org
>Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:16 AM
>Subject: Re: Acute inferiorty complex IC
>
>Dear Himen-da:
>Thanks for your note.
>Regarding Assamese having an 'inferiority
>complex' (written as IC henceforth) I have been
>saying this for decades now. This is something
>one can only feel or realize seeing the day to
>day actions of the Assamese people as a group on
>national or international level. First we will
>have to 'recognize the fact that we have this
>IC. From my side I can write a essay citing
>examples of Assamese IC. Now some people may not
>like to agree with me. To them I will simply ask
>to either counter my arguments or give me some
>examples whereby we can say that Assamese are
>not suffering from IC. However, I don't exactly
>understand when you say we need to discuss this
>in the net. What we can achieve by discussing
>this in the net? And I think we have discussed
>this issue many times in the net. This is
>something we can remove by our leaders first by
>getting rid of this 'IC' themselves and then
>educating the people by their actions. (Please
>note that we use the net not to solve problems
>but just to use it as a 'sounding borad' to test
>our idea's. From that angle the net is a very
>cruel sounding borad. It will hit one back and
>may hurt if the idea is not sound or true.)
>
>Regarding the slogan "deshatkoi momai dangar
>nohoi" I would not like to equate this
>unnecessarily with Krishna's killing Bhishma
>simply because it will not serve any purpose
>unless of course one is trying to make poor
>Lasit an Assamese Krishna. I think we should
>not try to defend or justify Lasit more than
>what he did. Let us leave it a historical fact
>and let us try to utilize this fact to the
>advantage of the future of the Assamese. (BTW
>please note that we try to write ethnic Assamese
>phonetics in Roman script in the net as opposed
>to your Sanskritised transliteration writing. So
>we would write the phrase more like 'dexotkoi
>mwmai dangor nohoy'. May explain details later. )
>
>Regarding your other slogan "desh matho eta
>dharana, thikanar shesh shari", all I can say is
>that so far I know this is a personal statement
>(a philosophical quote one may say) being used
>by Priyanku Sarma in the net. Here again please
>note that Priyanku used the correct Assamese
>ethnic spelling as : Dex matho eta
>dharona, thikonar xex xari..., and not what you
>spelled above. (Thank you Priyanku). Probably if
>there is anything more to its meaning, Priyanku
>can respond.
>
>Now coming to the meaning of the word 'dharona',
>I think you are trying too hard to find the
>meaning in Sanskrit grammar book. Please note
>that this is a simple Assamese word, and many a
>times, the same word may mean slightly
>different in Sanskrit than in Assamese. We
>should try to use the Assamese meaning. From
>that point, 'dharona' is a simple Assamese word,
>meaning 'conception' or 'idea' or 'comment' etc.
>The meaning is clear when we say the Assamese
>sentence "Ei ghotonatw xomporke twmar ki dharona
>baru?" Some netters like Alpana and others
>probably may give you better sentence using the
>Assamese word 'dharona'. Anyhow the full
>meaning of the Priyanku's quote will be : A
>country is nothing an idea which is only
>required to use as a last phrase in one's
>address. In fact I like this poetic (Omor Khyam
>type) quote, and I can write volumes in support
>of this poetic or philosophical statement.
>
>Hope this will make some clarifications. More later.
>Thanks
>Rajen
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:hthakur at comcast.net>Himendra Thakur
>To: <mailto:barua25 at hotmail.com>Barua25
>Cc: <mailto:dasmk2k at gmail.com>Manoj Das ;
><mailto:jugalkalita at yahoo.com>J Kalita ;
><mailto:ibarua at yahoo.com>Indrajit Barua ;
><mailto:hthakur at comcast.net>hthakur at comcast.net
>; <mailto:shivadoul at yahoo.com>Ginima Barua ;
><mailto:dilipdeka at yahoo.com>Dilip/Dil Deka ;
><mailto:absarangapani at hotmail.com>Alpana B.
>Sarangapani ;
><mailto:assam at assamnet.org>assam at assamnet.org
>Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 8:32 AM
>Subject: Acute inferiorty complex
>
>Dear Rajen,
>
>Thanks for your letter. The points that you have
>raised in this letter should definitely be
>discussed in the net.
>
>But, I think what you so correctly said on March
>5, 2006 "Assamese are already suffering from
>acute inferiorty complex" should be given to
>PRIORITY in the discussion in the assam-net.
>
>I congratulate you for pointing out this
>terrible thing "inferiorty complex" and most
>earnestly request you to run a discussion on
>this point in the net. I am trying to start this
>discussion by quoting Lachit's "deshatkoi momai
>dangar nohoi" (My uncle is not greater than my
>country)".
>
>The slogan "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi" (My
>uncle is not greater than my country)" is
>actually a re-statement of what Lord Shrikrishna
>stated in Bhagavadgita. Killing of grand-uncle
>Bhishma at the "Declared Battle of Kurukshetra"
> was justified by Lord Shrikrishna to establish
>righteousness. The word "righteousness" is the
>translation of the word "dharma" of the verses
>7&8 Chapter 4 of Bhagavadgita.
>
>When Lachit said "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"
>(My uncle is not greater than my country)", he
>was using the word "desha" to mean a Motherland
>whose defense was our righteous right. What
>Lachit said at the spur of the moment appears
>like a "slogan" to us. This may give some answer
>to the objection of Jugal Kalita [I apologize if
>I misunderstood him] about slogans.
>
>Another slogan is floating in the net "desh
>matho eta dharana, thikanar shesh shari" --- I
>am finding it difficult to translate this into
>English because the meaning of the word
>"dharana" is not clear to me. I see "dharana" as
>the sixth step of Patanjali's Ashtanga Yoga:
>(1) Yama, (2)Niyama, (3) Asana, (4) Pranayama,
>(5) Pratyahara, (6)Dharana, (7) Dhyana, and (8)
>Samadhi.
>
>The propounder of the slogan "desh matho eta
>dharana, thikanar shesh shari" should give the
>meaning of the word "dharana"and explain why
>"dharana" has been equated with "desha". Correct
>me if I am wrong, I think the slogans like
> "desh matho eta dharana, thikanar shesh shari"
>are generating the acute inferiorty
>complex" that you pointed out.
>
>The propounder & supporters of the slogan "desh
>matho eta dharana, thikanar shesh shari" should
>come forward to compare it with Lachit's
>"deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi".
>
>In my opinion, Lachit's "deshatkoi momai dangar
>nohoi" will expel the acute inferiorty complex
>--- a new, unwanted twist of Assamese mind ---
>that you so correctly pointed out.
>
>With the best wishes,
>Himendra
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:barua25 at hotmail.com>Barua25
>To: <mailto:hthakur at comcast.net>Himendra Thakur
>Cc:
><mailto:hthakur at comcast.net>hthakur at comcast.net
>; <mailto:assamrs at gmail.com>Ram Sarangapani ;
><mailto:dasmk2k at gmail.com>Manoj Das ;
><mailto:assam at assamnet.org>assam at assamnet.org
>Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:52 PM
>Subject: Re: deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi
>
>Dear Himenda:
>Thanks for your response. Glad to know that the
>book was a part of your course.
>Regarding the historical data of the story, I
>think you need to have some back up. Because it
>is such a horrifying story, it may give the
>people a completely different picture about
>Islam. The actual reality however may be quite
>different. The reason I am saying this is
>because there is also a opposite side of the
>story. According to one theory, the religion
>that suffered most during the Islamic invasion
>was mainly Buddhism. Buddhism was an organised
>religion without any defense which was
>completely wiped out. Hinduism survived under
>the caste system. Many Brhamins helped and aided
>the Islamic rulers in the destruction of
>Buddhism. Many Buddhist temples overnite become
>Shiva temples etc. Also the theory says that
>there was actually no forced conversion at all
>from Hindus to Islam. That is why one donot find
>any high caste Hindus being Muslim. All that
>conversion that happened were the low caste
>Hindus and they converted themselves to Islam
>mainly because of the equality that they gained
>under Islam and to avoid the exploitation from
>upper caste Hindus. Today one finds the whole
>of Bangladesh a Islamic country which were at
>one time wholly a Buddhist country. There were
>hardly any Brahmin or any high caste Hindus in
>Bagladesh. In fact the exploited downtrodden
>Hindus were taking shelters from exploitation
>from Hindus upper caste in those three shelter
>religions: namely Buddhism, Islam and
>Christianity.
>
>On the other hand I have heard story of enmass
>village conversion to Islam not by force from
>Islam but due to rejection from the Hindus.
>There story appeared in Prantik magazine in
>Assam, a Brahmin village in Assam was converted
>to Islam because somebody has thrown beef in the
>village well, and Hindus have refused to accept
>the village back as Hindus. The village finally
>had to take to Islam, The Sharmas started to
>write Ahmed overnite etc.
>
>So there may be many sides of the coin, and one
>need to be careful in making any general
>statement before checking the facts.
>Thanks
>Rajen
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:hthakur at comcast.net>Himendra Thakur
>To: <mailto:barua25 at hotmail.com>Rajen Barua
>Cc:
><mailto:hthakur at comcast.net>hthakur at comcast.net
>; <mailto:assamrs at gmail.com>Ram Sarangapani ;
><mailto:dasmk2k at gmail.com>Manoj Das ;
><mailto:assam at assamnet.org>assam at assamnet.org
>Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:28 PM
>Subject: deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi
>
>Dear Rajen,
>
>
>
>Sorry for the delay in replying !
>
>
>
>The statement that you referred in your letter
>below came up in a panel discussion in 1989 at
>Harvard University where the manuscript of my
>book "Don't Burn My Mother!" was discussed in a
>movie script-writing course. (By the way, I got
>an A in that course ! My added benefit was that
>I got to see a number of classic movies with
>commentaries & discussions at the Harvard
>University Movie Club --- those were a few
>wonderful months for me !)
>
>
>
>Unfortunately, 17 years later now, I don't
>remember the name of the history scholar who
>made that statement. It was my fault that I did
>not follow it up to find it in historical
>reference or book or article written by any
>historians. I'll now dig it up and let you know.
>
>
>
>Normally, I furnish a word "assumption" before
>such statements, which you may have noticed in
>my other writings. IF I miss, please let
>me know, I'll correct immediately ! All
>historical facts must be supported by
>cross-reference, according to the principle of
>historical studies. I really apologize for
>missing the word "assumption" before this
>statement. I thank you for correcting me.
>
>
>
>In this connection, I urge the netters to ponder
>over the story that Lachit beheaded his own
>uncle for lapse of duty in the Battle of
>Saraighat and uttered the famous slogan:
>"deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi" (My uncle is not
>greater than my country) --- this statement was
>boldly etched at the entrance of the Assam
>Assembly Hall in Shillong when Shillong was the
>capital of Assam.
>
>
>
>Now, I have heard that some people have raised
>serious objection that this statement cannot be
>accepted as historical truth due to lack of
>cross-reference. The netters may throw some
>light on this.
>
>
>
>Throughout my life, I grew up with
>Lachit's "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi" , and
>it pained me beyond any consolation that I could
>not include "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi" in
>my article ATAN BURAGOHAIN SAKO because some
>historian would object. However, in spite of all
>precautions, the idea of ATAN BURAGOHAIN SAKO
>and the idea of the statue of Swargadev
>Chakradhwaj Singha were rejected on the grounds
>that the bridge would encourage garbage dumping,
>the statue would be a sore thumb, the existing
>white pillar is an excellent "ABSTRACT" element,
>the statue of Swargadev Chakradhwaj Singha
>would be ugly, what they did in their time is
>fine --- we need not build any sako (bridge) or
>statue to commemorate them ------ and a hoard
>of many other "wise" comments.
>
>
>
>I request the netters to find out the historical
>truth about Lachit's "deshatkoi momai dangar
>nahoi" and advice me if I can include it in a
>revised version of the article ATAN BURAGOHAIN
>SAKO .
>
>
>
>With the best wishes,
>
>Himendra
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:barua25 at hotmail.com>Rajen Barua
>To: <mailto:hthakur at comcast.net>Himendra Thakur
>; <mailto:shntikamhaz at gmail.com>Shantikam
>Hazarika
>Cc: <mailto:assam at assamnet.org>assam at assamnet.org
>Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:17 AM
>Subject: invasion of Indo-Gangetic plains by Muslims
>
> >On January 29, 2006, I clearly wrote in the
>net that To protect a family during the early
>period of invasion of Indo-Gangetic plains, if a
>family of had five >brothers, two would take
>conversion to Islam to protect the remaining
>three.
>
>Dear Himen-da:
>I just want to ask you one question. Do you have
>any proof of the above statement?
>If yes, can you support with any historical
>reference or book or article written by any
>historians?
>I never heard such statement from any quarter.
>So it is very important that we absolutely find
>the truth
>Rajen.
>
>
> ><< Nirvana-Coverpage.jpg >>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>assam mailing list
>assam at assamnet.org
>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
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