[Assam] Nirvana of the soul

[Ram Sarangapani]

>Wrong!!! How do you think the Ahoms got Hinduanized in Assam.? How do you
think Naga, Miri, and so many tribals got Hinduanized in Assam?

Your are right. I am not sure how Hinduism  (in its nascent form) treats
such conversions.
But over the years, I have often heard that the only way to be a Hindu is to
be born one.
Maybe someone more knowledgeable could tell us about this. I too will try to
find out.



On 3/17/06, Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>   >BUT there is one cardinal rule that cannot be broken - one has to be
> born a Hindu.
> >That I think is Hinduism's weak point - acceptability factor. That is why
> there is no conversion into Hinduism.
>
>  Wrong!!! How do you think the Ahoms got Hinduanized in Assam.? How do you
> think Naga, Miri, and so many tribals got Hinduanized in Assam?
> RB
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
> *To:* Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
> *Cc:* Assam at assamnet.org
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 16, 2006 11:45 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Assam] Nirvana of the soul
>
>
> C'da,
>
>  >Can anyone help? Ram perhaps? I would have asked the writer himself, if
> I could.
> >But I suspect my questions won't be honored :-).
>
> This is a very interesting topic. Though I consider myself to have only
> superficial knowledge about this,
> I will nevertheless take the bait (based on the theory -  "fools rush in
> where.......").
> So, here goes (its a long drawn answer)"
>
> I have actually heard this about the "lack of faith" in Hinduism from a
> number of knowledgeable people.
>
> The way it has been described to me was that in Hinduism, its adherents
> are free to choose any number of paths to attain "Bikunta".
> There are in realtity no hard and fast rules for *practicing* the "faith".
> This lack of faith is often referred to as "freedom to practice" in numerous
> ways.
>
> That is waht Himen da probably means. Some examples: In Christianity -
> Sunday Mass is obligatory. in Islam, praying 5 times etc.
> I hinduism, though - one can be as strigent or lax as they want with the
> "rules". Even if they eat beef, there is "praschitya" or penance etc.
>
> Now, one can say these are all the clever ways that the Bamuns came up
> with (to make money). Could be? But assuming that other religions' leaders
> would have also have the same aspirations (money), why do they impose the
> rules strictly?
>
> Some of the effects of a loosely knit Hindu "faith"
> Not cohesive,
> Has created so many ways to pray to the Almighty
> Far too many interpretations.
> (For example, you think Hindus have many Gods - I don't. I think Hindus
> have only one God,
> and the rest are mere manifestations or facets)
> Far too dis-organized, thus not as powerful as other religions. No central
> command (like the Pope/or the Imam).
> Want a Hindu priest? - there is one around the corner. Want a Hindu
> Religious leader? You have choice from Sankracharya,
> Vivekananda, Sai Baba, to Bal Thakeray and Naren Modi.
> And there is NO compulsion to believe in any of them.
> I don't think there are any rules in Hinduism, that one can break and NOT
> get back in.
> One can always pay penance and get back in.
>
> BUT there is one cardinal rule that cannot be broken - one has to be born
> a Hindu.
> That I think is Hinduism's weak point - acceptability factor. That is why
> there is no conversion into Hinduism.
>
> For what its worth - Hinduism does have a strong philosophical content in
> it. You may pooh, pooh it,
> but is is recognized the world over for that.
>
> BTW: I am a prime example of the Hindu "faith" - a burger, steak eating,
> crossed the Xat-Xagor, hardly ever praying to the Gods, etc etc -
> but I believe I can safely say I am still a Hindu, because  I feel like it
> (and as long as I want) and no "leader" is going to chase me out as a
> heretic
> or pass a fatwa.
> --Ram
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3/16/06, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  >the strangest part is that there is no "faith" in Hinduism
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  *** Indeed it IS strange! Because if there is NO faith, then
> > Hinduism's  gods and goddesses, its concept of SOUL and its existence  are
> > based on solid PROOF . Unlike those well-meaning but misled atheists, who do
> > not believe in a soul ( because that would require FAITH), the Hindus
> > believe in that SOUL, but sans faith.
> >
> >
> > Powerful and superior logic here, something this poor lost soul is
> > unable to fathom.
> >
> >
> > Can anyone help? Ram perhaps? I would have asked the writer himself, if
> > I could. But I suspect my questions won't be honored :-).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > cm
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 6:33 PM -0500 3/16/06, Himendra Thakur wrote:
> >
> > Dear Alpona,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Somebody sent me a greeting "Happy Holi. Have a lot of fun with colors!"
> > --- from where I picked up the word "fun" which is "Ananda" --- bliss ---
> > joy --- happiness --- !!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Human babies start to smile at about 4 months of age. Other than the
> > humans, no other living beings know how to smile or laugh. Animals run their
> > lives with blind instincts. Human beings are capable of looking back at
> > their own instincts because they are endowed with "Consciousness".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Looking within, human beings "feel" the existence of a soul within. They
> > realize that the soul within is different from the body.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This is a unique experience of every individual. However, many
> > well-meaning knowledgeable people, who call themselves "Atheists", deny
> > this. They do not accept the existence of the soul within. They argue that
> > the "feeling" that there is a soul within is a result of peer pressure.
> > Although it may give some comfort, some solace, or some relief in this
> > otherwise dry and dreary world, such a "feeling" maybe unreal and untrue.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The dispute is going on for centuries. Since my knowledge is extremely
> > limited, I follow some sort of a principle of uncertainty !!
> >
> > By adhering to a "feeling" that a soul exists, that the soul is
> > different from the body, and that whereas the body will perish, the soul
> > will not, people face one inevitable question: What happens to the soul when
> > the body dies? Every religion has its own answer: the Semitic religions
> > "believe" in various forms of eternal hell &/or eternal heaven, Hinduism and
> > Buddhism "believe" in different form of transmigration of the soul. Since my
> > knowledge is extremely limited, I do not want to discuss about the Semitic
> > religions, because they maybe offended if I make a mistake. However, we may
> > continue the discussion about the Hindu "faith" --- and touch a bit of
> > Buddhism.
> >
> > Please share with us as to what you have "been reading many books on
> > 'life after life' lately".
> >
> > As for "it says that there is an astral world where the soul goes after
> > leaving the earth plane and lives happily before deciding to re-incarnate
> > - which could be decades in human years. The soul comes down to the earth to
> > acquire knowledge and then goes back to the astral plane - but to a higher
> > level" I must point out that these assertions are based on "belief" and not
> > on any proof.
> >
> > As for the Hindu "faith", the strangest part is that there is no "faith"
> > in Hinduism ---every individual is free to believe anything suitable to the
> > mental level of that individual, there is no order,  no command,  no
> > doctrine, no dogma, no conversion, no exclusion, no punishment,   --- *"joto
> > mot toto poth"* (as many opinions, that many paths) --- if YajurVeda
> > talks about "Boikuntho" as  an astral plane at a higher level", so does
> > Mandukya Upanishad talk about Advaita leading to Nirvana.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Referring to astral plane of Boikuntha where the "soul" will go for
> > "'life after life'", you asked "Is that where one goes after they achieve
> > Nirvana?" As I understand, Nirvana is not Death. It is a State of Existence.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Let us look at the last verse of Mandukya Upanishad:
> >
> > *Amatra* --- dimensionless
> >
> > *Chaturtha* --- this is the fourth state
> >
> > *Avyvaharya* --- nothing is happening. Time is Zero
> >
> > *Prapancha upashamah* --- all human emotions are quenched
> >
> >
> > *Siva* --- Eternal Bliss
> >
> > *Advaita* --- this is Unique, Non-dual
> >
> > *Evam onkara atma eva* --- this omkara is the soul
> >
> > *Shangvishati atmana atmanam* --- only soul can (comprehend and) enter
> > into soul
> >
> > *Yah evam veda yah evam veda* --- look at this, look at this.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This Upanishad from the Atharva Veda tells the reader about Advaita that
> > will lead to the state of Nirvana: All Dimensions are Zero --- there is no
> > length, no breadth, no depth; Time is Zero, nothing is happening; All human
> > emotions are quenched ---  there is no pain, no sorrow, no joy, no hope, no
> > despair, no love, no hatred --- this is Nirvana.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Nirvana is seen as complete "freedom" --- termed as* "moksha*" --- which
> > became the most covetable goal of life in Hinduism and Buddhism. After
> > attaining* moksha,* a person does not need any fame, glory, family,
> > friends, village, country --- such a person is wrapped up only in his or her
> > own individuality which is absolutely free. They do not work, because work
> > will bring bondage into their life. Who will feed them?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In Bhagavadgita, Shrikrishna reiterated the goal of* moksha.* In the
> > Second Chapter, He preached the imperishability and indestructibility of the
> > soul, followed by a brief advice about the path of wisdom and stabilization
> > of the mind as *"sthitaprajna*", arriving at Nirvana in the last verse
> > of the Second Chapter.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Gita would have ended there. Problem comes up when Arjuna starts the
> > Third Chapter of Bhagavadgita with the most penetrating question: "IF I can
> > achieve Nirvana in this way, why are you engaging me into work?"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "You shall work because you are a part of Nature" was Shrikrishna's
> > reply [3-5].
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Even after attaining Nirvana, Shrikrishna says very clearly in
> > Bhagavadgita, one must continue to work, because one is a part of Nature.
> > Agreeing that blind work under the blind forces of the blind instincts of
> > Nature will create bondage, Shrikrishna preaches a unique method of working
> > "without attachment" which will eliminate bondage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Working without attachment does not mean working without purpose. The
> > only way one can perform unattached work will be to work for the purpose of
> > the good of the society, termed as LOKASANGRAHA [3-20,25] --- which was
> > defined by Dr. Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan as "to Spiritualize the Society."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This is where I had to bring forth the Vision from Chandogya Upanishad
> > --- when all dimensions are zero, Length is Zero, Time is Zero, Infinite
> > Mass is in the state of the Eternal Cosmic Dance of Shiva, transferring
> > Matter from Energy into Waves ---- [this is the cover-page of  the drama
> > NIRVANA] --- in that enormous Sky, the Rishi of Chandogya Upanishad saw the
> > Triumph of Human Consciousness, Love.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > When we look at the blue sunny sky in a lazy Sunday afternoon and watch
> > the clouds floating at distance --- we try to give name to pieces of cloud
> > that break up and become different --- we give up because the clouds are not
> > our children whom we could give a name and keep --- we do see Love in the
> > Sky.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > It is Human Consciousness that leads us to feel the Sky.  Looking at the
> > Sky, we see broken airplanes, spacecraft debris and the galaxies --- these
> > are all the Cosmic Dance of Particles. It is Human Consciousness that leads
> > us to see " *Joy*... that is not bound by the pleasure and pain of the
> > world.* Joy* ... that is not bound by hope ... hope is another name for
> > deception,  a secret tunnel of despair.* Joy* ... that is not bound by
> > possessive love ... hatred is the other face of that kind of love. This is
> > the *Joy* of pure, causeless, unconditional  love ... like our galaxy
> > blue sky."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I started this letter with babies who start to smile at about 4 months
> > of age, I then wondered about the existence of the soul within --- now I
> > find that I have to sequence them properly with human consciousness:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The sequence is* sat-chit-ananda*
> >
> > *Sat* --- Existence of the Soul,
> >
> > *Chit* --- Human Consciousness,
> >
> > *Ananda* --- Joy of pure, causeless, unconditional  love
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To realize this, we need the State of Nirvana in our heart.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > With love to everybody,
> >
> > Himendra
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* Alpana B. Sarangapani <absarangapani at hotmail.com>
> >
> > *To:* hthakur at comcast.net ; barua25 at hotmail.com
> >
> > *Cc:* dasmk2k at gmail.com ; dilipdeka at yahoo.com ; ibarua at yahoo.com ;
> > jkk2020 at aim.com ; assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 15, 2006 11:45 AM
> >
> > *Subject:* RE: Happy Phakua !
> >
> >
> > Dear Himendra-da:
> >
> > Could you tell us more about it? Is it about the nirvana of the soul? Is
> > your book for sale?
> >
> > Also, does this or any of your books talk about the soul? What exactly
> > does hinduism say about it? Do different souls have connection to each
> > other?
> >
> > I've been reading many books on 'life after life' lately, where it says
> > that there is an astral world where the soul goes after leaving the earth
> > plane and lives happily before deciding to re-incarnate - which could be
> > decades in human years. The soul comes down to the earth to acquire
> > knowledge and then goes back to the astral plane - but to a higher level.
> >
> > That higher level could be the 'Boikuntho' (I think YajurVeda talks
> > about it) that we hear about. Is that where one goes after they achieve
> > Nirvana? And is Boikuntha the paradise of Krishna only, what about Shiva and
> > the other hindu Gods?
> >
> > Again, please do let me know more about your books and keep sending
> > those interesting anecdotes that you so beautifully put. Also, please let me
> > know of any books that might have any information on the soul - with
> > different beliefs, and not necessarily only hinduism.
> >
> > You can send me the info but I thought others might have some info and
> > would like to chime in when they do or just would like to know.
> >
> > Thank you for sending the information.
> >
> > With regards,
> >
> > Alpana.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  ------------------------------
> >
> > From:* "Himendra Thakur" <hthakur at comcast.net>*
> > To:* "Rajen Barua" < barua25 at hotmail.com>*
> > CC:* "Manoj Das" < dasmk2k at gmail.com>,"Alpana B. Sarangapani" <
> > absarangapani at hotmail.com>,"Dilip/Dil Deka" < dilipdeka at yahoo.com>,<hthakur at comcast.net>,"Indrajit
> > Barua" <ibarua at yahoo.com>,< jkk2020 at aim.com>,<assam at assamnet.org>*
> > Subject:* Happy Phakua !*
> > Date:* Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:06:35 -0500*
> >
> > Dear Rajen,
> >
> >
> >
> > Happy Phakua ! To you and everybody in the net!
> >
> >
> >
> > *Ananda* is the essential core of Existence --- that's what Shri Krishna
> > perpetuated with Holi on the Full Moon Day of the month Phalguna. Attached
> > please find the cover-page of my latest drama NIRVANA dedicated to *
> > sat-chit-ananda*.
> >
> >
> >
> > If you want to hear more about it, please contact me!
> >
> >
> >
> > With love to everybody,
> >
> > Himendra
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> >
> > *To:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net>
> >
> > *Cc:* priyankoo sarma <priyankoo123 at rediffmail.com> ; Alpana B.
> > Sarangapani <absarangapani at hotmail.com> ; Dilip/Dil Deka<dilipdeka at yahoo.com>;
> > jkk2020 at aim.com ; Indrajit Barua <ibarua at yahoo.com> ; Manoj Das<dasmk2k at gmail.com>; Ram
> > Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com> ; assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > *Sent:* Monday, March 13, 2006 9:29 AM
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: Acute inferiorty complex/ Assamese IC
> >
> >
> > Himenda:
> >
> > If you go to any good Bookshop in Assam and ask for the Assamese
> > dictionary written by Sumant Chaliha (I may be wrong in his spelling of the
> > name), they will proudly sell it to you.
> >
> > Yes, I think you still need to respond with your comments to the
> > question on Illegal Immigration (Bangladesh govt has a control switch!) and
> > on the Assamese transliteration standards (yours vs. Priyanku's).
> >
> > Rajen
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net>
> >
> > *To:* Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> >
> > *Cc:* priyankoo sarma <priyankoo123 at rediffmail.com> ; Alpana B.
> > Sarangapani <absarangapani at hotmail.com> ; Dilip/Dil Deka<dilipdeka at yahoo.com>;
> > jkk2020 at aim.com ; Indrajit Barua <ibarua at yahoo.com> ; Manoj Das<dasmk2k at gmail.com>; Ram
> > Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com> ; assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > *Sent:* Sunday, March 12, 2006 10:28 PM
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: Acute inferiorty complex/ Assamese IC
> >
> >
> > Dear Rajen,
> >
> >
> >
> > Where can I find the dictionary written by Engineer Sumant Chaliha? That
> > will be a great help.
> >
> >
> >
> > If I missed replying to your questions, that must have been an oversight
> > on my part for which I apologize. Kindly send me the questions if you do not
> > mind. I am sorry for the inconvenience.
> >
> >
> >
> > With the best wishes,
> >
> > Himendra
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> >
> > *To:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net>
> >
> > *Cc:* Indrajit Barua <ibarua at yahoo.com> ; Alpana B. Sarangapani<absarangapani at hotmail.com>; Dilip/Dil
> > Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com> ; jkk2020 at aim.com ; Manoj Das<dasmk2k at gmail.com>; priyankoo
> > sarma <priyankoo123 at rediffmail.com> ; assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > *Sent:* Sunday, March 12, 2006 6:04 PM
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: Acute inferiorty complex/ Assamese IC
> >
> >
> > >I did not "drag" Assam Sahitya Sabha into it --- I sincerely believed
> > that Assam Sahitya Sabha had some position in >this spelling problem.
> >
> >
> >
> > For your information, ASS never approved any standardization of Assamese
> > transliteration ever.  So when you ask the question, has the new system been
> > approved by ASS, I would say, they never did even the old system. So now you
> > know that it is not a good idea to approacj ASS for guidance. Let them live
> > in haven with their ornamental positions.  So far Assamese spelling is
> > concverned, our Engineer Sumant Chaliha wrote a dictionary recently
> > which is being claimed as an athority on this.  So it is always individuals
> > against org who actually do the work.
> >
> >
> >
> > >our real priority problem is losing the land, Bangladesh swallowing
> > Assam with the help from Assamese betrayers --->problem aggravated by the
> > acute inferiority complex that you identified ----  this is such a huge
> > problem that >everything else appear small.
> >
> >
> >
> > Let us go with you on the above. If you really think this is the
> > problem, then we need to address it correctly. If you remember we discussed
> > about this problem. So far I remember, you were supposed to respond to
> > my questions on this which you never did. That is very important so that
> > we can go to the root of the problem.
> >
> >
> >
> > >As for the spelling of my Assamese words in the net, I appeal to the
> > netters to correct me whenever I make a >mistake. That's how I'll be able to
> > learn the new spelling system.
> >
> >
> >
> > So far as the net is concerned, nobody here claim to be an authority.
> > Nobody is saying you are wrong. In fact we are all trying to evolve a
> > standardization system of transliteration of the Assamese phonetics. Frankly
> > speaking we found that the existing system, if there is one, is no good for
> > Assamese. So we are on our own.  We look forward to your positive
> > contribution. In fact we can start with Priyankus transliteration and yours.
> > Now that we all know where we are, would you like to comment on this whether
> > you think yours is correct or Priyanku's. I think that will be a good
> > starting point.
> >
> >
> >
> > Rajen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net>
> >
> > *To:* Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> >
> > *Cc:* Indrajit Barua <ibarua at yahoo.com> ; Alpana B. Sarangapani<absarangapani at hotmail.com>; Dilip/Dil
> > Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com> ; jkk2020 at aim.com ; Manoj Das<dasmk2k at gmail.com>; priyankoo
> > sarma <priyankoo123 at rediffmail.com> ; assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > *Sent:* Sunday, March 12, 2006 2:27 PM
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: Acute inferiorty complex/ Assamese IC
> >
> >
> > Dear Rajen,
> >
> >
> >
> > I did not reject Priyanku's way of writing" --- what happened was that I
> > could not find his material in my computer and I rewrote it to save time ---
> > and my spellings came out to be as bad as what Phulda (Jnanananda Sharma
> > Pathak --- we call him by his nickname "Phulda") did with the old style of
> > spelling in his article in the Assam Tribune today !!
> >
> >
> >
> > I did not "drag" Assam Sahitya Sabha into it --- I sincerely believed
> > that Assam Sahitya Sabha had some position in this spelling problem. As for
> > me, I'll go by whatever people ask me to do on these kind of matters --- so
> > far as I am concerned, our real prority problem is losing the land,
> > Bangladesh swallowing Assam with the help from Assamese betrayers
> > --- problem aggravated by the acute inferiority complex that you identified
> > ----  this is such a huge problem that everything else appear small.
> >
> >
> >
> > As for the spelling of my Assamese words in the net, I appeal to the
> > netters to correct me whenever I make a mistake. That's how I'll be able to
> > learn the new spelling system.
> >
> >
> >
> > With love to everybody,
> >
> > Himendra
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  and changed to Sanskrit transliteration which we will still like to
> > hear from you
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> >
> > *To:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net>
> >
> > *Cc:* priyankoo sarma <priyankoo123 at rediffmail.com> ; Manoj Das<dasmk2k at gmail.com>;
> > jkk2020 at aim.com ; Indrajit Barua <ibarua at yahoo.com> ; Dilip/Dil Deka<dilipdeka at yahoo.com>; Alpana
> > B. Sarangapani <absarangapani at hotmail.com> ; Ram Sarangapani<assamrs at gmail.com>;
> > assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > *Sent:* Sunday, March 12, 2006 2:53 PM
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: Acute inferiorty complex/ Assamese IC
> >
> >
> > Dear Himenda:
> >
> > Thanks for your response. I was holding not to respond to you based on
> > Ram's comments because I did not know if agree to his view. As I can see
> > now, your reason for his Sanskritization was unintentional. That leaves room
> > for our future discussion on the subject in a rational manner. I am sure we
> > can discuss this separately later.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regarding the Assamese transliteration, if you will remember, the
> > question arose only because you changed the Priyankus transliteration while
> > quoting him:
> >
> >
> >
> > Priyanku wrote:* Dex matho eta dharona, thikonar xex xari...,*
> >
> > You wrote:*       ** Desh matho eta dharana, thikanar shesh shari*
> >
> > *and asked him to expalin.*
> >
> > We are still trying to figure out why you rejected Priyanku's way of
> > writing and changed to Sanskrit transliteration which we will still like to
> > hear from you.
> >
> >
> >
> > Please donot try to drag ASS into this business which is not theirs. I
> > don't know if you know it or not, during the last 70 years, ASS has been a
> > completely non productive organization so far any contribution to the
> > Assamese language or even the unity of the Assamese is concerned. It has not
> > contributed anything either in standarding the  Assamese spellings or
> > standardizing the Roman transliteration etc.  Now ex ASS President is
> > wrongly claiming the word ASSAM is a British coin word which it is not. He
> > also is claiming that the letter S can represent the Assanese guttural X
> > sound which it does not. ASS even shy away from coming up a good definition
> > of the Assamese.  I think ASS has turned into an intellectually defunct org
> > and the highest epitome of Assamese IC. So do you really believe that
> > anybody can expect anything effective from ASS. In my opinion, ASS is a
> > highly politicized ornamental org just for its name which has actually
> > dividing the Assamese community into Tai-Ahom, Bodo, Tiwa etc. Whatever
> > contribution is being made to the Assamese language and literature during
> > the last 70 years, is being made due to individual contributions of some
> > dedicated people who are determined to stay outside ASS (I mean people like
> > Bhabendra Nath Saikia etc). Also you probably know the ongoing debate for
> > the proper Roman script spelling of the word for (O+DontiyoXO+MO) = OXOM.
> > Have you so far seen any contribution from ASS at all on the subject?
> >
> >
> >
> > In view of above, if you are honest to yourself and want to really make
> > any contribution to the land of your birth, please donot try to name these
> > big sounding organizations. Do it on your own like so many Assamese people
> > who have done before without getting into official sanctions of ASS.
> > Otherwise if you too are after just for the name, please go ahead, the
> > netters will understand your position.
> >
> >
> >
> > Please don't worry about me being influenced by Chandan. We are all too
> > matured to be influenced by anybody. We have our own strong views. Please
> > take it that when I write something, it is coming from my heart with 100
> > honesty and sincereity and conviction. These questions are coming from me,
> > and I hope you will respond with same honesty and sincereity
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Rajen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net>
> >
> > *To:* Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> >
> > *Cc:* priyankoo sarma <priyankoo123 at rediffmail.com> ; Manoj Das<dasmk2k at gmail.com>;
> > jkk2020 at aim.com ; Indrajit Barua <ibarua at yahoo.com> ; Dilip/Dil Deka<dilipdeka at yahoo.com>; Alpana
> > B. Sarangapani <absarangapani at hotmail.com> ; Ram Sarangapani<assamrs at gmail.com>;
> > assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > *Sent:* Sunday, March 12, 2006 12:37 PM
> >
> > *Subject:* Acute inferiorty complex
> >
> >
> > Dear Rajen,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I am a little late in replying to your letter ---once again --- I hope
> > you will not mind. I had to work on another deadline somewhere else. I also
> > had to attend a friend's family who ran into a bereavement.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I am sorry I made mistakes in the spellings --- in fact, I do not know
> > the new "Assamese phonetics in Roman script" ---- I wrote what I knew, just
> > like what respected Jnanananda Sharma Pathak wrote in the Assam Tribune
> > today in his beautiful article "Mystical Yearnings" about the late
> > Parbotiprasad Barua --- it is difficult to get rid of old habits you grow up
> > with!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > If the  "Assamese phonetics in Roman script" has been accepted by Asom
> > Sahitya Sabha, Guwahati University, Dibrugarh University and other
> > authorities, there should be some books [kindly inform me]  from which I
> > could learn the new spelling system.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Even then, I may still make a mistake. Please do not be influenced by
> > Chandan Mahanta's foul suspicion that "Himenda's attempts to Sanskritize
> > Oxomiya words and phrases demonstrates his own insecurity and inferiority
> > complex as an Oxomiya -- driving him to Sanskritized versions of words and
> > phrases. He even writes 'desh', as in deshotkoi', etc." I do not know how
> > the netters will digest Chandan Mahanta's brickbats like "Did Lasit
> > Borphukan speak Sanskrit?"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > As for my spelling mistakes, I appeal to the netters to please correct
> > me whenever you find an error.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The subject of my letter to you was the huge concern that you so
> > appropriately pointed out in the net* on March 5* about the* "Acute
> > Inferiority Complex of  the Assamese "* --- [I did not know that this
> > was discussed in the net before] --- this is now overshadowed by another
> > discussion of Sanskritization, which is opposed by many netters.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Under the main topic of the "Acute Inferiority Complex of  the Assamese
> > " , I was appealing to the netters to discuss these two slogans:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *(1) Dex matho eta dharona, thikonar xex xari -------by Priyanku Sharma*
> >
> > *(2) Dexotkoi mwmai dangor nohoy --------------------- by Lasit
> > Borphukan*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The #2 was uttered by Lasit in the heat of a battle, but it became a
> > slogan later on.  I agree with you that "Let us leave it a historical fact
> > and let us try to utilize this fact to the advantage of the future of the
> > Assamese."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > About the #1 above, I thank you for clarifying that "Priyanku's quote
> > will be :* A country is nothing an idea which is only required to use as
> > a last phrase in one's address.*  In fact I like this poetic (Omor Khyam
> > type) quote, and I can write volumes in support of this poetic or
> > philosophical statement."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I also thank Dilip Deka for his clarification "The proper translation
> > would be, "Country is just a concept, the last line of a street address."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Those who feel bound to the borders of a country also accept the borders
> > of village, city, state, and province. Do these borders mean anything? It is
> > nothing but an attempt to keep out those who are not like you and that is
> > demented.
> >
> > Looking at the positive side, national or regional pride, and the
> > diversity associated with it add color to life. If the whole world adopts
> > one way say american way of life and its culture, life itself would become
> > dull."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In #2 above,* dex* (the country) is held above family relations, whereas
> > in #1,* dex* (the country) is degraded to something* which is only
> > required to use as a last phrase in one's address  or to something that will
> > be just   *"the last line of a street address."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *This idea appeals to young people as it did to the "flower children" of
> > the 1960s who talked about the "*Those who feel bound to the borders of
> > a country also accept the borders of village, city, state, and province. Do
> > these borders mean anything?" *In the 1960s,  growing in the aftermath
> > of the Second World War where 30 million people died, growing under the
> > shadow of the Korea War and Vietnam War, young people revolted and took that
> > line of thinking. *
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I request the netters to discuss whether #2 is an expression of
> > "Positive Self-confidence", whereas the #1 opens a door to "Acute
> > Inferiority Complex of  the Assamese ".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > With love to everybody,
> >
> > Himendra
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> >
> > *To:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net>
> >
> > *Cc:* Manoj Das <dasmk2k at gmail.com> ; J Kalita <jugalkalita at yahoo.com> ;
> > Indrajit Barua <ibarua at yahoo.com> ; hthakur at comcast.net ; Ginima Barua<shivadoul at yahoo.com>; Dilip/Dil
> > Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com> ; Alpana B. Sarangapani<absarangapani at hotmail.com>;
> > assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > *Sent:* Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:16 AM
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: Acute inferiorty complex IC
> >
> >
> > Dear Himen-da:
> >
> > Thanks for your note.
> >
> > Regarding Assamese having an 'inferiority complex' (written as IC
> > henceforth) I have been saying this for decades now. This is something one
> > can only feel or realize seeing the day to day actions of the Assamese
> > people as a group on national or international level. First we will have to
> > 'recognize the fact that we have this IC. From my side I can write a essay
> > citing examples of Assamese IC. Now some people may not like to agree with
> > me. To them I will simply ask to either counter my arguments or give me some
> > examples whereby we can say that Assamese are not suffering from IC.
> > However, I don't exactly understand when you say we need to discuss this in
> > the net. What we can achieve by discussing this in the net? And I think we
> > have discussed this issue many times in the net.  This is something we can
> > remove by our leaders first by getting rid of this 'IC' themselves and then
> > educating the people by their actions. (*Please note that we use the net
> > not to solve problems but just to use it as a 'sounding borad' to test our
> > idea's. From that angle the net is a very cruel sounding borad. It will hit
> > one back and may hurt if the idea is not sound or true.) *
> >
> >
> >
> > Regarding the slogan *"deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"* * * I would not
> > like to equate this unnecessarily with Krishna's killing Bhishma simply
> > because it will not serve any purpose unless of course one is trying to make
> > poor Lasit an Assamese Krishna.  I think we should not try to defend or
> > justify Lasit more than what he did. Let us leave it a historical fact and
> > let us try to utilize this fact to the advantage of the future of the
> > Assamese. (BTW please note that we try to write ethnic Assamese phonetics in
> > Roman script in the net as opposed to your Sanskritised transliteration
> > writing. So we would write the phrase more like   *'dexotkoi mwmai
> > dangor nohoy'*. May explain details later. )
> >
> >
> >
> > Regarding your other  slogan* "desh matho eta dharana, thikanar shesh
> > shari",* all I can say is that so far I know this is a personal
> > statement (a philosophical quote one may say) being used by Priyanku Sarma
> > in the net. Here again please note that Priyanku used the correct Assamese
> > ethnic spelling as : *Dex matho eta dharona, thikonar xex xari...,* and
> > not what you spelled above. (Thank you Priyanku). Probably if there is
> > anything more to its meaning, Priyanku can respond.
> >
> >
> >
> > Now coming to the meaning of the word 'dharona', I think you are trying
> > too hard to find the meaning in Sanskrit grammar book. Please note that this
> > is a simple Assamese word, and many a times, the same word may mean slightly
> > different in Sanskrit than in Assamese. We should try to use the Assamese
> > meaning. From that point, 'dharona' is a simple Assamese word, meaning'conception' or 'idea' or 'comment' etc.
> > The meaning is clear when we say the Assamese sentence* "Ei
> > ghotonatw xomporke twmar ki dharona baru?" *Some netters like Alpana and
> > others probably may give you better sentence using the Assamese word*'dharona'
> > *.  Anyhow the full meaning of the Priyanku's quote will be :* A country
> > is nothing an idea which is only required to use as a last phrase in one's
> > address. *  In fact I like this poetic (Omor Khyam type) quote, and I
> > can write volumes in support of this poetic or philosophical statement.
> >
> >
> >
> > Hope this will make some clarifications. More later.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Rajen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net>
> >
> > *To:* Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> >
> > *Cc:* Manoj Das <dasmk2k at gmail.com> ; J Kalita <jugalkalita at yahoo.com> ;
> > Indrajit Barua <ibarua at yahoo.com> ; hthakur at comcast.net ; Ginima Barua<shivadoul at yahoo.com>; Dilip/Dil
> > Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com> ; Alpana B. Sarangapani<absarangapani at hotmail.com>;
> > assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > *Sent:* Saturday, March 11, 2006 8:32 AM
> >
> > *Subject:* Acute inferiorty complex
> >
> >
> > Dear Rajen,
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your letter. The points that you have raised in this letter
> > should definitely be discussed in the net.
> >
> >
> >
> > *But, I think what you so correctly said on March 5, 2006 "**Assamese
> > are already suffering from acute inferiorty complex" **   should be
> > given to PRIORITY in the discussion in the assam-net.*
> >
> >
> >
> > I congratulate you for pointing out this terrible thing "inferiorty
> > complex" and most earnestly request you to run a discussion on this
> > point in the net. I am trying to start this discussion by quoting Lachit's
> > * "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"* (My uncle is not greater than my
> > country)".
> >
> >
> >
> > The slogan* "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"* (My uncle is not greater
> > than my country)" is actually a re-statement of what Lord Shrikrishna stated
> > in Bhagavadgita. Killing of grand-uncle Bhishma at the "Declared Battle of
> > Kurukshetra"  was justified by Lord Shrikrishna to establish righteousness.
> > The word "righteousness" is the translation of the word "dharma" of the
> > verses 7&8 Chapter 4 of Bhagavadgita.
> >
> >
> >
> > When Lachit said* "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"* (My uncle is not
> > greater than my country)", he was using the word* "desha"* to mean a
> > Motherland whose defense was our righteous right. What Lachit said at the
> > spur of the moment appears like a "slogan" to us. This may give some answer
> > to the objection of Jugal Kalita [I apologize if I misunderstood him] about
> > slogans.
> >
> >
> >
> > Another slogan is floating in the net* "desh matho eta dharana, thikanar
> > shesh shari"* --- I am finding it difficult to translate this into
> > English because the meaning of the word " *dharana"* is not clear to me.
> > I see "*dharana*" as the sixth step of Patanjali's Ashtanga Yoga:
> > (1) Yama,  (2)Niyama, (3) Asana,  (4) Pranayama, (5) Pratyahara, (6)Dharana,
> > (7) Dhyana, and  (8) Samadhi.
> >
> >
> >
> > The propounder of the slogan* "desh matho eta dharana, thikanar shesh
> > shari"* should give the meaning of the word* "dharana"*and explain why*"dharana"
> > *has been equated with* "desha".* Correct me if I am wrong, I think the
> > slogans like  *"desh matho eta dharana, thikanar shesh shari"* are
> > generating the *acute inferiorty complex"**  *that you pointed out.
> >
> >
> >
> > The propounder & supporters of the slogan* "desh matho eta dharana,
> > thikanar shesh shari"*  should come forward to compare it with  Lachit's
> > * "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi". *
> >
> >
> >
> > In my opinion, Lachit's* "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"* will expel theacute inferiorty complex --- a new, unwanted twist of Assamese mind --- that you so correctly pointed
> > out.
> >
> >
> >
> > With the best wishes,
> >
> > Himendra
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> >
> > *To:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net>
> >
> > *Cc:* hthakur at comcast.net ; Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com> ; Manoj
> > Das <dasmk2k at gmail.com> ; assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:52 PM
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi
> >
> >
> > Dear Himenda:
> >
> > Thanks for your response. Glad to know that the book was a part of your
> > course.
> >
> > Regarding the historical data of the story, I think you need to have
> > some back up. Because it is such a horrifying story, it may give the people
> > a completely different picture about Islam. The actual reality however may
> > be quite different. The reason I am saying this is because there is also a
> > opposite side of the story. According to one theory, the religion that
> > suffered most during the Islamic invasion was mainly Buddhism. Buddhism was
> > an organised religion without any defense which was completely wiped out.
> > Hinduism survived under the caste system. Many Brhamins helped and aided the
> > Islamic rulers in the destruction of Buddhism. Many Buddhist temples
> > overnite become Shiva temples etc. Also  the theory says that there was
> > actually no forced conversion at all from Hindus to Islam. That is why one
> > donot find any high caste Hindus being Muslim. All that conversion that
> > happened were the low caste Hindus and they converted themselves to Islam
> > mainly because of the equality that they gained under Islam and to avoid the
> > exploitation from upper caste Hindus.  Today one finds the whole of
> > Bangladesh a Islamic country which were at one time wholly a Buddhist
> > country. There were hardly any Brahmin or any high caste Hindus in
> > Bagladesh. In fact the exploited downtrodden Hindus were taking shelters
> > from exploitation from Hindus upper caste in those three shelter religions:
> > namely Buddhism, Islam and Christianity.
> >
> >
> >
> > On the other hand I have heard story of enmass village conversion to
> > Islam not by force from Islam but due to rejection from the Hindus.
> > There story appeared in Prantik magazine in Assam, a Brahmin village in
> > Assam was converted to Islam because somebody has thrown beef in the village
> > well, and Hindus have refused to accept the village back as Hindus. The
> > village finally had to take to Islam, The Sharmas started to write Ahmed
> > overnite etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > So there may be many sides of the coin, and one need to be careful in
> > making any general statement before checking the facts.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Rajen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net>
> >
> > *To:* Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> >
> > *Cc:* hthakur at comcast.net ; Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com> ; Manoj
> > Das <dasmk2k at gmail.com> ; assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:28 PM
> >
> > *Subject:* deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi
> >
> >
> > Dear Rajen,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sorry for the delay in replying !
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The statement that you referred in your letter below came up in a panel
> > discussion in 1989 at Harvard University where the manuscript of my book
> > "Don't Burn My Mother!" was discussed in a movie script-writing course. (By
> > the way, I got an A in that course ! My added benefit was that I got to see
> > a number of classic movies with commentaries & discussions  at the Harvard
> > University Movie Club --- those were a few wonderful months for me !)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately, 17 years later now, I don't remember the name of the
> > history scholar who made that statement. It was my fault that I did not
> > follow it up to find it in historical reference or book or article written
> > by any historians. I'll now dig it up and let you know.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Normally, I furnish a word "assumption" before such statements, which
> > you may have noticed in my other writings.*   IF  *   I miss, please let
> > me know, I'll correct immediately ! All historical facts must be supported
> > by cross-reference, according to the principle of historical studies. I
> > really apologize for missing the word "assumption" before this statement. I
> > thank you for correcting me.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In this connection, I urge the netters to ponder over the "story" that
> > Lachit beheaded his own uncle for lapse of duty in the Battle of Saraighat
> > and uttered the famous slogan:* "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi" *(My
> > uncle is not greater than my country) --- this statement was boldly etched
> > at the entrance of the Assam Assembly Hall in Shillong when Shillong was the
> > capital of Assam.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Now, I have heard that some people have raised serious objection that
> > this statement cannot be accepted as historical truth due to lack of
> > cross-reference. The netters may throw some light on this.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Throughout my life, I grew up with Lachit's  *"deshatkoi momai dangar
> > nohoi"* , and it pained me beyond any consolation that I could not
> > include* "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi"*  in my article "ATAN BURAGOHAIN
> > SAKO" because some historian would object. However, in spite of all
> > precautions, the idea of "ATAN BURAGOHAIN SAKO" and the idea of the statue
> > of Swargadev Chakradhwaj Singha were rejected on the grounds that the bridge
> > would encourage garbage dumping, the statue would be a sore thumb, the
> > existing white pillar is  an excellent "ABSTRACT" element, the statue of
> > Swargadev Chakradhwaj Singha  would be ugly, *"what they did in their
> > time is fine --- we need not build any *sako* (bridge) or statue to
> > commemorate them"* ------ and a hoard of many other "wise" comments.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I request the netters to find out the historical truth about Lachit's  *"deshatkoi
> > momai dangar nahoi"* and advice me if I can include it in a revised
> > version of the article "ATAN BURAGOHAIN SAKO" .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > With the best wishes,
> >
> > Himendra
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> >
> > *To:* Himendra Thakur <hthakur at comcast.net> ; Shantikam Hazarika<shntikamhaz at gmail.com>
> >
> > *Cc:* assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:17 AM
> >
> > *Subject:* invasion of Indo-Gangetic plains by Muslims
> >
> >
> > >On January 29, 2006, I clearly wrote in the net that "To protect a
> > family during the early period of invasion of Indo-Gangetic plains, if a
> > family of had five >brothers, two would take conversion to Islam to protect
> > the remaining three.
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Himen-da:
> >
> > I just want to ask you one question. Do you have any proof of the above
> > statement?
> >
> > If yes, can you support with any historical reference or book or article
> > written by any historians?
> >
> > I never heard such statement from any quarter. So it is very important
> > that we absolutely find the truth
> >
> > Rajen.
> >
> >
> > ><< Nirvana-Coverpage.jpg >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
>
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