[Assam] HPI, March 20, 2006 -ISKCON's Gita interpretation & white skinned Brahmins
Rajen Barua
barua25 at hotmail.com
Tue Mar 28 09:39:06 PST 2006
>It is utopian to think that all humans are equal -- thats what communism also says
>It is practical to admit that each one should rise to do best what s/he can do in their lives.
Yes, you are right Hinduism is a practical religion to go by to maintain the status quo.
But the problem is we also have the following in Hinduism for which one cannot rise to do the best.
>"Bhishma said:The status of a Brahmana is incapable of acquisition by a
>person belonging to any of the three other orders. That status is the
>highest with respect to all creatures.
Hinduism highlighted the inequality in human being in so many words. When we couple that with 'karma' and 'duty', one's mind is set.
Buddhism did not highlighted this difference.
When the US constitution says 'all men are equal' it does not mean all men have equal quality etc.
When Buddhism says "All men are born equal and all have equal potential to attain Budhahood it does not mean all are equally qualified to be scholars or computer scientists. It just mean all have equal potential to be the perfect man and attain Buddhahood in his lifetime"
(You may still say: It is utopian to think that all humans are equal -- thats what communism also says)
And with the same mode of thinking, Hinduism highlight this inequality. Not only that it gives a convincing reason and justification why men are not equal.
Five fingers are never equal.
Basically Hinduism looked at the differences and philosophized and perpetuated these differences with the mode of thinking that the glass is always half empty.
Buddhism ignored the difference and focused on how to make the glass full.
"All men have equal potential to attain Buddhahood in his own lifetime."
Rajenda
----- Original Message -----
From: umesh sharma
To: Rajen Barua ; Ram Sarangapani
Cc: assam at assamnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] HPI, March 20, 2006 -ISKCON's Gita interpretation & white skinned Brahmins
Rajen-da,
I again repeat that you are perpetuating the wrong notion that Guna is equal to birthright. Human beings are inherently distint from each other - and that each should rise to his or her own potential. Moreover Gita says that not only humans but even animals have souls.
It is utopian to think that all humans are equal -- thats what communism also says. It is practical to admit that each one should rise to do best what s/he can do in their lives.
Umesh
PS: By perpetuating the interpretation that Guna = caste by birth I do not think any purpose is being served. ISKCON has chosen the right path to interpret Gita as it was meant to be --since most of its followers have no caste by birth at all - being converts. Their defiition of Brahmin priests in their temple is those who get up daily early morning and spend whole day in prayer and temple activities - even those who pray part time are not considered so. They have to wear dhoti etc only
They do put up notices that for such and such event only Brahmins will take part - but they rightly exclude people like my father or anyone who calls himself Brahmin by birth but does not follow the path. On the other hand most of those are qualified to attend these ceremonies are white skinned Brahmins ffrom the West .
Incidently, Srila Prabhupad who started the ISKCON movement was not Brahmin by birth but definitely one by actions or Gunas. He promoted Gita as the Bible of Vaishnavas -since he believed that Hindusim was too muddled to correctly interpret the Gita -so he promoted Vaishnavism
Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
The difference between Hinduism and Buddhism is what they are higlighting.
Hindusim is highlighting the inequality loud and clear, inequality in potential, quality, gunas, inequaliity of the caste system, different duties of different castes, one's duty to do his duty according to his caste and not to try to do duties of othe castes etc etc. Thus Hinduism is basically 'status quo' go on doing whatever your caste dictates and it will be all right. Gita has rather perpetated this Hindu ideal by speaking through the mouth of God.
Buddhism does not highlight these inequalities in men. Buddhism rather ignored these and professed that every man has equal potential to be the perfect man (Buddhahood) and that all men are equal and that the main purpose of life is to be happy by attaining enlightenment and become a Buddha yourself etc etc. According to Buddhism all men are created equal, it is men rather who is making it not so.
That is the difference.
RB
----- Original Message -----
From: umesh sharma
To: Barua25 ; Ram Sarangapani
Cc: assam at assamnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] HPI, March 20, 2006
Rajen-da,
I guess you are right when you compare with the Buddha ideal - that all humans have equal potential - and that message does get lost when you say that some people have more potential and aptitude in priestly matters and others have more in warrior like or governance matters and others in service industry (incl perhaps public school education and computers) or business.
I wonder where the Theory of Multiple Intelligences fits in which says that different individuals learn differently . It is a very famous theory in education propounded by Howard Gardner - a professor at Harvard - andused by schools across the world.
Umesh
Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
Umesh:
On this one will have to go deeper.
First we need to determine when Gita was composed.
Second, what was behind the theory of the four caste system.
Third, how and when the caste system in India actually started.
All these are linked up.
My position is that Gita has perpetuated the caste system in India. It is like what the British did in India thousands years later.
Gita has highlihted the point to the Indians ages and ages to come that all men are not created equal, a point completely opposite to the present day ideal. Because of the Gita every Indian mind is programmed that way inspite of the American ideal.
It is also 180 degree opposite to the Buddhist principle which states that all men are created equal and have equal potential for Buddhahood.
Think on these lines and comment.
Rajenda
----- Original Message -----
From: umesh sharma
To: Rajen Barua ; Ram Sarangapani
Cc: assam at assamnet.org
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] HPI, March 20, 2006
Rajen-da,
Even this verse by itself doesnot say that Brahmin is by birth - it merely states that Brahmins are intellectuals (from head or brain) - thus does show that intellect is superior to other things - if you believe that one part of human body is more important than others. Kshatriya is said to come from arms - denoting strength -used for fighting -does not say about hereditary caste system.
On the other hand it speaks of cohesion - in the sense that all people in any soicety are doing equally important work - just as parts of a human body - regardless of their social status. I repeat - no mention of hereditary caste system.
Umesh
Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
I think it is the Gita.
I will check
Rajenda
----- Original Message -----
From: umesh sharma
To: Rajen Barua ; Ram Sarangapani
Cc: assam at assamnet.org
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] HPI, March 20, 2006
I do recall that there is such a verse but I do not recall seeing it in Geeta or that Krishna said it.
Umesh
Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
I will have to read the verse in detail. I think Krishna states bothways:
Those who are born out of my head are the Brahmins
Those who are born out of my shoulder, are the Kshatriyas.
Those who are born out of my stomach are the Vaishya.
Those who are born out of my feet are the Sudras.
Can you check if above is true.
Rajenda
----- Original Message -----
From: umesh sharma
To: Ram Sarangapani ; Rajen Barua
Cc: assam at assamnet.org
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] HPI, March 20, 2006
Rajen-da rote whether Gita would have to be revised to remove casteist remarks - I do not recall any!! The only ones defining caste are in chapter 18 shlokas 41-44 -which are not basd on birth - but on gunas or a person's nature and work or deeds. Manusmriti does perhaps needs to be overhauled - by ading new commentaries etc.
umesh
Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com> wrote:
A cursory reading of the VHP message is interesting. The fact they are urging the rejection of castes is a good thing. But their reasons " in the interest of consolidating Hindu unity to fight conversions and "Jehadi" terror." is passe.
The shadow of casteism must be erdicated from Hinduism. A good reason would be that all are treated equal within the religion. Of course, there are numerous social advantages.
>Does it mean they will revise the Gita, the Manusmriti and all those Hindu scirptures now?
I don't think they can (and nor are they claiming to). Whats written is written. Thats history. Hindus and Hinduism must be able to transcend the negatives in Manusmriti. The Old Testament (which has probably as many negatives in it) is not given much relevance by mainstream Christians for this very reason.
>Manusmroti was written around 1st or 2nd AD or before . It has nothing to do with Jehadi
While this is true, the VHP is probably thinking it needs to unite all Hindus against a possible "Jehadi" onsluaght on Hinduism. The VHP is probably trying to make political hay here. Nothing in the world of politics succeeds like dividing up people on caste, religion, language. And sadly, it may work.
--Ram
On 3/20/06, Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) and the Grama Koil Poojarigal Peravai has rejected varnashrama (system of four castes)
Does it mean they will revise the Gita, the Manusmriti and all those Hindu scirptures now?
>varnashrama dharma, supposedly written in Manusmrithi, in the interest of consolidating Hindu unity to fight conversions and "Jehadi" terror.
Why VHP is completely out of touch with History and wants to expose its ignorance?
Manusmroti was written around 1st or 2nd AD or before . It has nothing to do with Jehadi.
Wake up VHP.
Wake up Hindutva,
RB
----- Original Message -----
From: Hindu Press International
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 2:51 PM
Subject: HPI, March 20, 2006
March 20, 2006
1.. VHP Meeting Rejects Caste System
2.. Ancient Thailand Siva Temple To Experience Rare Alignment with Sun
1. VHP Meeting Rejects Caste System
www.hindu.com
ERODE, INDIA, March 20, 2006: The fifth State Hindu Resurgence Conference organized by the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) and the Grama Koil Poojarigal Peravai has rejected varnashrama (system of four castes) and sought an end to the practice of untouchability. Addressing the conference at the CNC College grounds on Sunday, VHP international president Ashok Singhal said untouchability had no sanction in the Vedas and dharma sasthras. Ancient history and mythology had no record on it. Alien aggressions could have led to the practice. He also called upon the heads of mutts (ashrams and theological centers) to give manthra deeksha (mantra initiation) to all without discrimination. Mr. Singhal said the VHP was outrightly rejecting varnashrama dharma, supposedly written in Manusmrithi, in the interest of consolidating Hindu unity to fight conversions and "Jehadi" terror.
Expressing concern over the living conditions of grama temple pujaris, a resolution passed urged the State to give them US$22.72 a month. The families should continue to receive it after the pujaris' death. It sought free power supply to rural temples. The State government should ensure financial assistance for temple festivals and at least one puja, worship service, daily.
The resolution included a "Hindu Agenda" in the form of an appeal to political parties. It sought exemption for temple land from all land reforms legislation, a statutory autonomous board and a State dharmic council for "better" administration of temples. It sought a ban on conversions and cow slaughter and decried demands for reservation to minorities (that is, extending affirmative action programs for Hindu untouchables and tribals to Christians and Muslims). It sought an end to discrimination on legal and constitutional lines in favor of minority institutions. It urged the Centre (India's federal government) to facilitate reconstruction of the Ram temple at Ayodhya and the State (of Tamil Nadu) to withdraw all cases against the Kanchi Sankaracharya.
Expressing concern at the "declining Hindu population, which was growing at 22 p er cent as against the growth of minority population at 35 per cent," it urged the Centre to bring in a uniform civil code by implementing the directive principle under Article 44 of India's Constitution.
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2. Ancient Thailand Siva Temple To Experience Rare Alignment with Sun
www.etravelblackboard.com
CHALERMPHRAKIAT DISTRICT, BURI RAM PROVINCE, THAILAND, March 20, 2006: In Hindu and Buddhist cosmology, mountains are believed to be homes to the Gods. Prasat Hin Khao Phanom Rung, a magnificent temple sanctuary set on the summit of Phanom Rung Hill, was built between the 10th and 13th centuries. According to the stone inscriptions in Sanskrit and Khmer found at the site, the original name of the temple complex is Phanom Rung, Khmer words meaning "big mountain." A religious sanctuary dedicated to the Hindu God, Siva, Prasat Hin Khao Phanom Rung symbolizes Mount Kailasa, the heavenly abode of Siva. Phanom Rung Hill rises 350 metres above the surrounding plain. Astrologers have predicted that an extraordinary astro-archaeological phenomenon will occur at sunrise during the April 3-5 period this year. The doors of the temple sanctuary are so perfectly aligned that during this period, at sunrise on a cloudless day with clear blue skies, the sun's rays will shin e through all fifteen doorways of the sanctuary in a single shaft of light.
These magnificent man-made sandstone sanctuaries, often referred to as palaces of the Gods, sit atop hills rising above the high plains of I-san and still bear witness to the half millennium from the 9th to 14th centuries during which a powerful Khmer state flourished in the region, including what is today northwestern Cambodia. These extraordinary towers comprise elements of temple architecture meant to symbolise Mount Meru, the mythical peak at the center of the Hindu-Buddhist universe. Sometimes referred to as "high Cambodia," the provinces of Buri Ram, Surin, Nakhon Ratchasima and Sisaket were a perfect setting for the development of these Meru microcosms. Although Thai folk belief once held that the larger, cruciform-plan monuments served as palaces for Angkor's all-powerful kings, in fact these buildings were designed as temporary abodes for Siva, Vishnu, Maitreya and other Deities called to earth via religious ritual. To the east of I-san's temple-dotted pl ateaus lay the river valleys of "low Cambodia," the heartland of Angkorean civilization where its kings resided.
A sacred "superhighway" linked Prasat Phimai with 12th-century Angkor Wat, the largest and most complex of the Khmer temples. Angkor rulers were at the time considered to be devaraja or "god-kings," and to maintain that vaunted status they and their priests periodically travelled between key monuments to perform complex ceremonies involving fire, water, and Sivalingam. Monuments en route offered spiritual and temporal support along these potentially arduous journeys, including 102 "houses with fire" and 121 "hospitals" or "healing stations" (arokayasala). These structures became so important to the sanctity of the Angkor empire that some 300 Khmer shrines were erected between the 7th and 13th centuries. Temple construction reached its zenith in the 12th and 13th centuries.
For information on visiting these temples, go to the web site of the Tourism Authority of Thailand, here.
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