[Assam] Buddhism: An Atheistic and Anti-Caste Religion? - EdmundWeber

[Barua25]

Ram:
There are many aspects of such statements. First we donot know where from Weber was taking these quotes. Second we donot know what exactly Buddha's quotes were and what were there tone and meaning.

However the most important thing is that many outsiders, and most Indians, make a misunderstanding about what exactly Buddha preached. Many just assume that Buddha reformed Hinduism. But was it so? Many assume and even proclaim that Buddha was against the caste system. But was he against the caste system? Or in fact was Buddha against any system? I donot think you will not find a single statement by Buddha that he was against this and that.

So part of the problem is the very misconception about what Buddhism is or was.

Thus Weber was assuming certain and things regarding what Buddhism was supposed to be according to him and then he was criticizing why Buddhism failed. etc 

Before we go deeper into these debates, we need to know what exactly Buddha did or tried to do.

In fact I hear similar statements about  Xongkordev. Because most Assamese just assume and write essays that Xongkordev was trying to reform the society and that he was against the caste system.  According to me Xongkordev did not try to reform the society.  Neither Buddha tried to reform the society or Hinduism.

Once we look from that angle, many things become clear.

May be sometime later.

RB
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Ram Sarangapani 
  To: Rajen Barua 
  Cc: ASSAMNET 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 5:33 PM
  Subject: Re: [Assam] Buddhism: An Atheistic and Anti-Caste Religion? - EdmundWeber


  Dear Barua,

  I sent in the article because it seems Weber has almost contradictory views on Buddhism than those often discussed here. In fact, I was surprised too at some of Weber's analyses and views.

  In certain places, the article also claims that Buddha and Buddism was very much caste conscious.  That kind of surprised me. I thought Buddhism at least was devoid of it. We know, Islam and Christianity (in India) do practice some form of casteism (and maybe not as rigidly as Hindus - but they do so. 

  For Instance:
  "According to this Buddhist tradition, it is thanks to the gods and in a broader sense to the brahmanas"
  or
  "It seems to me that it is important to the present discussion that the early Buddhism did not worship the gods of the lower castes or the dalits but the gods of the higher castes. The gods of the lower caste people, like for example Shiva, were always a thorn in their flesh to them and to the non-Buddhist high castes ."
  or
  According to Buddha, and he proclaimed the point of view of his fellow class men, the Sakiyas, belonged to the mundane society of the brahmanas on the grounds of caste purity and mixing among the kshatriyas 

  According to this report the Buddhas belonged all to the high castes, to the kshatriyas and brahmanas. Buddha says proudly about himself "And now I, the venerable and fully enlightened one, was born a warrior and have come from the caste of warriors, o monks." [22] 
  However, to Siddharta and the monks that listened to him, not only the varna, the hierarchical class but also the jati, the clan respectively the family were of substantial importance. 

  I very little knowledge of Buddhism to start with and hopefully you or others could clarify this dichotomy.
  --Ram



   
  On 3/28/06, Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote: 
    It is very difficult to summarize what exactly is his point.
    It is one of those articles which makes lot of noise but does not make any sound.
    RB
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Ram Sarangapani 
    To: ASSAMNET 
    Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 3:39 PM
    Subject: [Assam] Buddhism: An Atheistic and Anti-Caste Religion? - EdmundWeber

     
    As we are discussing religions, I thought netters may be interested in what Weber has to say about Caste and atheism in Budhhhism. He has an interesting take.

    http://web.uni-frankfurt.de/irenik/relkultur50.htm

    --Ram


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