[Assam] Revealed: Assam kids plant bombs -2

Thu Oct 19 14:15:59 PDT 2006

>No, I am not surprised by some 'detoriation'. What else can one expect?

*** WHY are you not surprised Ram? Did you, and others, with your 
extraordinary prescience, saw this coming as a natural result of 
evolution, or do you attribute it to something more believable :-) ?

C'da,

>*** I don't know what a Beslan is, but if you or others are 
>surprised by the steady deterioration of the situation over the 
>decades, then it only goes >to underscore the living in denial.

Beslan is in Russia, where in Sept. 04, school children (among 
adults) were held hostage by Islamic jehadists from Chechnia and were 
murdered one by one execution style in front of other children and 
parents/adults.
No, I am not surprised by some 'detoriation'. What else can one expect?

>But if it REALLY is so, how can  you suggest that the grotesque 
>child abuse perpetrated
>and perpetuated by India's middle class--its establishment , is 
>somehow NOT nearly as
>bad as the purported employment of children by ULFA to plant bombs?

You are comparing apples to oranges. Was this a planned, coordinated 
effort by the middle class in India to exploit children?
What is this 'middle class establishement' you are talking about. I 
was in the middle class while in India, and so were most of us. How 
come we never got invited to join the club?
The difference, C'da, what the ULFA did was planned and coordinated, 
while the other, bad and rotten as it is, was 'not planned or 
intentional'

--Ram

On 10/19/06, Chan Mahanta 
<<mailto:cmahanta at charter.net>cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:

Ram:

>So, as insurgents get desperate, children are at stake. When can we 
>expect a >Beslan?

*** I don't know what a Beslan is, but if you or others are surprised 
by the steady deterioration of the situation over the decades, then 
it only goes to
underscore the living in denial.

Kashmir, Sri Lanka, Palestine ---- all have demonstrated, in vivid 
colors, how from very low intensity guerilla fighting have, over the 
decades, reached
suicide-bombings. One could only wonder what could be in the offing next.

Assam is hardly any different. GoI's stonewalling in collusion with 
Assam's establishment and the desi-intelligentsia's  well-known 
clueless-ness to the quality of their democracy ( while frothing in 
the mouth singing its glories),
has been the singular cause of what we see today.

>All murders are bad, C'da. To the victims of secret killings or even 
>the >families of ulfa cadres the loss of their loved ones is 
>terrible. Nothing that >you or me or the GOI or the ULFA can make it 
>right.

*** That is touching Ram :-).

But if it REALLY is so, how can  you suggest that the grotesque child 
abuse perpetrated and perpetuated by India's middle class--its 
establishment , is somehow NOT nearly as bad as the purported 
employment of children by ULFA to plant bombs?

>But as a society, we specially have a much softer corner for 
>children. And when >their innocence is used for ulfa's or the GOI's 
>advantage, it doesn't speak >well of the perpetrators.

*** I don't know if GoI uses children to advance their mission, just 
as I cannot be certain that ULFA does.

But what about Indian society? Does it or does it not, in a scale 
unprecedented in the history of humanity, indulge in the most heinous 
child abuse, and with complete impunity?

And is this the SAME society you refer to as having " ---a much 
softer corner for children"? What society is this?

>  Yes, millions of children everywhere in the world are exploited - 
>even in the US.

*** Heh-heh :-)! The ol' 'everybody does that' defense, huh? Does not 
cut it though Ram. The MAGNITUDE does matter, even though it is 
convenient not to consider.

>This is a societal problem.

*** Tell me about it!

>But just because the society is derelict or hasn't been able to 
>provide the best for our >children,----

**** Must be quite acceptable, right?

>--it certainly does not mean insurgent elements take that as a cue 
>to send children >into >.harms way?

*** And the reason being what again Ram? Because ULFA is not a part of society?
Being extra-terrestrial and thus liable to be held to a higher 
standard, they could be demonized, while the same Indians play 
no-see,no-hear and no-speak of
the child abuse they not only see around them everyday but 
participate in actively in vast numbers amongst its wealthiest and 
'educated' sectors?

That indeed is a highly insightful proposition Ram. But you know 
what, nothing could be a better illustration of Bhutor mukhot Ram 
naam :-).

>It may seem so. But the reality is that it does hurt when children 
>are used in >this way.

*** No kidding!

>If the GOI were to send India's children to fight its wars with 
>Pakistan or >fight insurgencies,

*** You are good man. Since GoI has all the millions of 
canon-fodders, they don't need to go recruit children to do their 
dirty job on the Assamese, or the Manipuris, or the Kshmiris or the 
Naxals across the country, leaving ULFA conveniently alone there to 
be pilloried!

>---my indignation would have been similar or more.

*** I don't know  anyone charging you with abetting child-abuse Ram. 
You've got to stop responding like this every time you get trapped in 
your own arguments, lest people start reading it like " Gwxain ghorot 
kwn--moi kol khowa nai" :-).

Take care.

c-da

At 6:12 PM -0500 10/18/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:

>C'da,
>
>
>The point is about the continuation of the conflict spanning over 
>two decades, getting worse  over time. And as the >asymmetry widens, 
>so does the desperation and its resultant by-products.

So, as insurgents get desperate, children are at stake. When can we 
expect a Beslan?

>Will you have the courage to face the victims of the 'secret 
>killings' of Assam to suggest that their loss is not nearly >as bad 
>as, say the children of Dhakuakhana, since the former was 
>perpetrated by unknown evil people, while the >latter was, to be 
>reasonably suspected to be by ULFA?

All murders are bad, C'da. To the victims of secret killings or even 
the families of ulfa cadres the loss of their loved ones is terrible. 
Nothing that you or me or the GOI or the ULFA can make it right.

But as a society, we specially have a much softer corner for 
children. And when their innocence is used for ulfa's or the GOI's 
advantage, it doesn't speak well of the perpetrators.

>Or can you, with a straight face argue, that the millions of 
>children of India scouring garbage piles left by the Great Indian 
>Middle Class' >consumption , for the struggle to survive and dying 
>untimely deaths, homeless, hungry, bereft of the most rudimentary of 
>the necessities of life, is >somehow not nearly as grotesque as 
>children used to plant bombs by insurgent groups ?

Whats your point C'da? Yes, millions of children everywhere in the 
world are exploited - even in the US. This is a societal problem. But 
just because the society is derelict or hasn't been able to provide 
the best for our children, it certainly does not mean insurgent 
elements take that as a cue to send children into harms way?

>The outrage is SELECTIVE and CONVENIENT, designed to make political points

It may seem so. But the reality is that it does hurt when children 
are used in this way. There are no excuses here. If the GOI were to 
send India's children to fight its wars with Pakistan or fight 
insurgencies, my indignation would have been similar or more.

--Ram

On 10/18/06, Chan Mahanta 
<<mailto:cmahanta at charter.net>cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:

Ram:

The point is about the continuation of the conflict spanning over two 
decades, getting worse  over time. And as the asymmetry widens, so 
does the desperation and its resultant by-products.

Do GoI's honchos huddle in the backrooms of the palace to connive to 
let loose the army , armed with AFSPA  and other such devices, on the 
Assamese, or Kashmiris or the myriads of groups across India?

One would have to say, NO. It does not happen that way.

But the NET EFFECT is the same, isn't it?

Does it matter to its ultimate victims whether it is an outcome out 
of connivance of a few evil people, or universal exploitation or 
benign apathy?

Will you have the courage to face the victims of the 'secret 
killings' of Assam to suggest that their loss is not nearly as bad 
as, say the children of Dhakuakhana, since the former was perpetrated 
by unknown evil people, while the latter was, to be reasonably 
suspected to be by ULFA?

Or can you, with a straight face argue, that the millions of children 
of India scouring garbage piles left by the Great Indian Middle 
Class' consumption , for the struggle to survive and dying untimely 
deaths, homeless, hungry, bereft of the most rudimentary of the 
necessities of life, is somehow not nearly as grotesque as children 
used to plant bombs by insurgent groups?

Or maimed and deformed children begging on the streets of great 
Indian  cities, plucking their scabs to bleed a little more, to 
compete with those others whose wounds are not nearly as bad; are 
nothing  compared to ULFA or Kashmir militants

or tribal-Naxals exploiting their children to smuggle explosives to 
destroy the lives and life-styles of other INNOCENT Indians?

Give me a break Ram.

The outrage is SELECTIVE and CONVENIENT, designed to make political points and

augment the propaganda of the Indian establishment, to whom it is 
more important to hold on to the real-estate, of Assam, of Kashmir, 
and damn those who occupy the ground!

c-da

At 10:34 AM -0500 10/18/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:

>C'da,
>

>See, the Great Indian Middle Class, is soooo very kind to the 
>children of its under->classes, it must hurt their sensitivities to 
>see these ULFA rogues use children to do their >dirty work!

This is what one would call 'spinning out of control' :)

Yes, mal-treatment to children by any class of people is bad. But 
this mal-treatment is not an organized effort by the GOI or some 
state or even a group of people. What you are referring to is a 
social problem, and NOT a connived effort by groups of people trying 
to harm children.

In the case of the ULFA is pure and simple - they want to save their 
own hides and send children to fight men's wars. These obviously are 
really brave men - put women & children first. Remember Bhutan - they 
abandoned women & children and took off. That is the backbone of the 
organization.

Well - they may have an excuse - the whole world mistreats children - 
from Africa, Latin Americas to Asia (specially India) - so why 
shouldn't they take this a step further - let children do the dirty 
work and die if necessary?

--Ram

On 10/18/06, Chan Mahanta 
<<mailto:cmahanta at charter.net>cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:

No doubt Ram. You are right.

See, the Great Indian Middle Class, is soooo very kind to the 
children of its under-classes, it must hurt their sensitivities to 
see these ULFA rogues use children to do their dirty work!

So, Ram, I can appreciate your, Neep's and all others' outpourings of 
revulsion with something like this, and your disgust with those who 
see only GoI's insincerity and its supporters' hypocrisies.

But somehow Ram, this 'odhom' doesn't quite buy it.

c-da :-)

At 10:01 AM -0500 10/18/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:

>C'da,
>

This one you cannot spin. That ulfa is willing to put children on the 
frontlines (instead of risking their own sweet hides) speaks volumes 
of their world view.

Even if their cause was worthwhile, and the GOI and others are the 
ones that forced them to become insurgents, it still doesn't compute.

This organization who claim to be the one looking after Assam's 
interests, is all so willing to goad children into doing the dirty 
work and bear all the risks.

This is a new low, however you cut it.

--Ram

On 10/18/06, Chan Mahanta 
<<mailto:cmahanta at charter.net>cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:

If the recent history of such conflicts worldwide is any guide, it 
could be expected to hit even lower, as the stalemate progresses and 
the asymmetry of the conflict increases.

What is confounding is the smugness with which the party that holds 
all the cards would not do its share to find a negotiated solution, 
while waving its oh-so-pious wishes to the world.

Be it in Assam, be it in Nagaland, be it in Kashmir, be it in Sri Lanka.

Hypocrisy obviously has no bounds.

At 8:41 AM -0500 10/18/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:

>This is a new low.
>
On 10/18/06, Neep Hazarika 
<<mailto:neep_hazarika at hotmail.com>neep_hazarika at hotmail.com> wrote:

<http://www.rediff.com/news/2006/oct/18asom.htm>http://www.rediff.com/news/2006/oct/18asom.htm

---
Neep Hazarika

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