[Assam] More on Minneapolis Collapse-- A Quick Primer

Fri Aug 3 05:57:55 PDT 2007

http://www.nytimes.com/ref/us/20070803_BRIDGE_GRAPHIC.html#step1

This shows some possible problem sources.

I  am no structural engineer, but I know enough to be dangerous :-). 
If I had to bet on as single cause, it will be on  No: 6. And  if I 
were to second guess on judgement, it will be on  8. St. Louis has 12 
bridges on the Mississippi and the Missouri.  All of them have 
redundancy built in, to some extent.

There was a major bridge collapse on the Ohio river I believe , which 
also had no redundancy built in.

Why does anyone need redundancy?

Because these structures have many components and their integrity 
depends on many many factors. So one cannot put all the eggs in one 
basket, betting that everything would have been built as designed or 
wished. For that does not EVER happen.

At 4:01 PM -0700 8/2/07, Krishnendu Chakraborty wrote:
>Bridge 'structurally deficient'
>
>Engineers spotted structural problems in the bridge as
>far back as 1990, but state officials thought patches
>and yearly inspections would be enough to keep it
>together, Minnesota's top bridge engineer said. This
>year's inspection started in June and would have been
>finished in September after $2.4 million worth of
>maintenance on the deck, joints, guardrails and
>lights.
>
>-------
>
>C'da your comments on this will be highly appreciated
>--- first because it was designed by some Very Bright
>and Very Creative American Engineer whose Math
>foundation is very strong (unlike some Desi idiot) and
>second,  the "chacks and balances"  seems to have
>failed  and third because it is your field of
>expertise.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>>  O' Ram:
>>
>>  Hope your weekend is going well. We had a nice
>>  kharkhowa gathering,
>>  along with some  kolgutikhowas and even a couple of
>>  desuali  folks
>>  last evening. This has been the most pleasant of
>>  July weather I can
>>  recall in our 32 years in St. Louis. A light breeze
>>  carrying mist
>>  from the river kept us comfortable, the mosquitos
>>  were on vacation,
>>  the cicadas were noisy but our friends' conversation
>>  kept them at bay
>>  and my mango-margarita kept everyone mellower than
>>  the near
>>  full-moon's light under a clear sky, until we fared
>>  our friends well-
>>  in whose honor we hosted the gathering--on their
>>  impending
>>  trip to the desert of Rajasthan where he will be
>>  teaching business
>>  management as a Fullbright Scholar
>>  on sabbatical at Pilani and she will be there to
>>  keep him company.
>>
>>  Anyway,  I read your thoughts here. As usual, no
>>  problems with your
>>  being a non-engineer. I am not one either. In IIT
>>  we, the
>>  architecture students, were laughed at by our
>>  engineering friends,
>>  because we did not use slide-rules, which was
>>  equivalent to looking
>>  down upon people who count with their fingertips,
>>  the lowest of the
>>  low-tech lot, a few notches below the
>>  logarithmatic-table users. We
>>  tried to turn the tables by laughing at their
>>  drawing skills. But
>>  they knew how to put us even further down: They told
>>  us that they
>>  will always have draftsmen ( I don't remember
>>  hearing of draftswomen)
>>  to do their dirty work, while we shall remain
>>  pencil-pushers for
>>  ever. That was really below the below the belt, and
>>  it hurt.
>>
>>  Enough about my sad stories.
>>
>>  On the fools'-rush front, I won't hold anyone guilty
>>  of crimes that I
>>  routinely commit. So rest easy there also.
>>
>>  By now if you are beginning to fret about   all the
>>  nicey-nice leader
>>  to this response and wondering if I am about spring
>>  a tripper on you,
>>  relax there too. I don't have anything tricky up my
>>  sleeve this
>>  morning.
>>
>>  All I ask is WHAT exactly were you and your cheering
>>  section, ably
>>  led by Krishendu,  trying to prove or disprove ?
>>  Once I get a bearing
>>  on that, I will be pleased to share my thoughts.
>>
>>  Take care.
>>
>>  c-da
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  At 9:16 AM -0600 7/28/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>  > >C'da
>>  >
>>  >Being a non-engineer, and susori-musori pass kora
>>  individual, I may
>>  >not be qualified to comment in this high-flying
>>  math/engg. debate -
>>  >but nevertheless, I will try... you know, "fools
>>  rush in where
>>  >angels...."
>>  >
>>  >One, is it is generally recognized that Indian
>>  graduating from
>>  >Indian schools are good in math/science. Not
>>  because they boast
>>  >about it, but because they just are. There are
>>  extremely bright
>>  >people there.
>>  >Most of the people who have been a big success in
>>  this and other
>>  >countries have had their "fundas" from India, and
>>  most Assamese from
>>  >the Engg. colleges in Assam, and education in
>>  cotton or GU or DU.
>>  >
>>  >Second, you charge that because you don't see
>>  contributions from
>>  >these people in India, then obviously these
>>  graduates are Not
>>  >creative etc.
>>  >
>>  >It is possible that even though these Indians may
>>  be creative and
>>  >intelligent, but may NOT be willing or are not able
>>  to contribute to
>>  >societies they came from. Maybe, they came to the
>>  USA to make more
>>  >money (read better opportunities).
>>  >While, I do not think there is anything wrong with
>>  that, let us
>>  >realize that  there are many many people in India
>>  who are just as
>>  >capabale or better than immigrants to the US and
>>  who have
>>  >contributed to Indian's growth and development.
>>  >
>>  >Third, if these people were not creative in India,
>>  how is it that
>>  >these very same people with the basic fundamentals
>>  from India have
>>  >suddenly become creative here? Did they suddenly
>>  sprout wings?
>>  >
>>  >Lastly, (and I may the loner here) - Math & science
>>  are great, but
>>  >let us not put down other branches. There are many
>>  world leaders
>>  >(Kennedy/Gandhi/Nehru etc) who have come from
>>  non-science, non-tech
>>  >backgrounds, but have been instrumental in
>>  development and broad
>>  >visions for their countrues.
>>  >
>>  >If it wasn't for Nehru, many today would NOT have
>>  gone to the IITs.
>>  >Yes, those same IITs that have enabled many to
>>  build careers in the
>>  >US and in India. Yes, those same IITs that have
>>  built the very
>>  >foundations that they so easily rubbish today.
>>  >
>>  >If it wasn't for JFK, man may not have gone to the
>>  moon. A country
>>  >needs visionaries, just like it needs bright people
>>  from every other
>>  >branch.
>>  >
>>  >More later
>>  >
>>  >--Ram
>>  >
>>  >On 7/28/07, Chan Mahanta
>>  ><<mailto:cmahanta at charter.net>cmahanta at charter.net>
>>  wrote:
>>  >
>>  >  >By this logic, with so many successful Indian
>>  >Engineers and Scientists in US and other countries
>>  the
>>  >primary math foundation laid by Indian School
>>  system
>>  >must be excellent.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >*** Can you cite some statistics, or even educated
>>  guesses on how "
>>  >many successful Indian
>>  >Engineers and Scientists in US and other countries"
>>  are there, and
>>  >what percentage is that of :
>>  >
>>  >A: Total number of scientists and engineers
>>  produced by India?
>>  >
>>  >B: Total number of people of the demographics of
>>  which these are a
>>  >segment and how the rest are doing ?
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >C: HOW these "successful" products of an
>>  'excellent' Indian education
>>  >system have contributed to India's well being?
>>  >
>>  >D: How the rest of the 'excellent' Indian education
>>  system have
>>  >contributed to India's well being?
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
>
>       
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