[Assam] More on Minneapolis Collapse

Mon Aug 6 19:44:18 PDT 2007

I suspected earlier when you criticized  Dr Pachuari 
and now I am confirmed .....  you have a big j factor
coming out of your own failure 

Sorry but I thought you are a IIT grad   and I am sure
you can come over your j factor pretty soon.

BTW,  it would help us a lot if you point to your
sources regarding these bridges  and I would be
equally interested to know which MAJOR bridges has
collapsed in India.  At this point, I am asking for
MAJOR bridge because you need to compare apples to
apples

> The ("Able,ExaPerienced,Authorized ")Delhi-Designed
> -6 so far- Guwahati Flyovers could have been  at 20%
> cost/time-had I designed/built them!

Smelling a lot of hollow superiority complex !!! We
have heard such things from you earlier too ..... but
I wonder why everytime you end up being a loser !

Not sure who/why you were not allowed to build it.  We
heard that at least one fly over (the Ulubari one) was
built by an Assam based company  (BTW it also took a
l-o-n-g time compared to Ganeshguri flyover which was
done by LnT).
Sorry can't help if you do not have the ability to
convince people about your capability.   Probably your
Engineering knowledge is half baked or may be you
spent more time bashing India then mastering your own
field.

We would be eager to know some of your Creative works
and contributions to Assam.  At least it would give us
some peace of mind that there is one Creative and able
Engineer in Assam who Can do a Nation Building once
Assame is Independent.  The only other Creative
Engineer of India/Assam (CM) is comfortably settled in
St Louise!

--- mc mahant <mikemahant at hotmail.com> wrote:

> 
> <Unfortunately, I could not find any Indian bridge>
> which had such catastrophic collapse in less then
> 50> years of building. Probably you can help.>
>  
> You smug  Indian IT whizkid--. 
> I can help you judge your beloved India's structural
> genius!
> 
> Come to Mangaldoi:  The  RCC Bridge at the entry to
> town on the National Highway collapsed in 1984-in 1
> hour after opening to traffic with much fanfare.span
> =50m!Till today  that crossing (National Highway) is
> on shaky latticework Army Engineers Make/Shift  (
> Bailley) Bridge.[Designed by Delhi's NH authority.
> Come to Nam-Roop: The 100m span (first ever
> RCC)bridge on  vital Dhwodor Aali was opened  in
> 1980. West piers started settling soon. By 2000 they
> had to stop for Urgent Repairs. They brought another
> Bailley Bridge and placed on the Sinking RCC Br.
> This went on till 2 months back.Now there is  crisis
> : how to take out the Bailley-because the RCC main
> is sinking -unable to support the Bailley!! Of
> course ther is 0 traffic on this vital route.
> Newspapers are told not to print any article/Photo
> of this National Shame.
> Come to Roha -on the Main NH37 RCC collapsed in 2004
> Was opened in 1990.
> Come to Hajo main road Amingaon>Barpeta. RCC bridge
> collapsed 1 month after opening in 2001
> 
>  
> List is very Long.
>  List is Painful burdenfor the Assamese Nation.
> The ("Able,ExaPerienced,Authorized ")Delhi-Designed
> -6 so far- Guwahati Flyovers could have been  at 20%
> cost/time-had I designed/built them!
> I have a feeling you learnt nothing of Engineering.
> mm
> > Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:20:23 -0700> From:
> krish_gau at yahoo.com> To: cmahanta at charter.net;
> assam at assamnet.org> Subject: Re: [Assam] More on
> Minneapolis Collapse> > Hi C'da> > Let me first say
> --- I am not a Architect/Strcutural> Engineer or
> Civil Engineer .... so pardon my ignorance> in this
> field> > Coming to your points ---> > > Did *I* make
> those assertions about the> > qualifications or even
> implied them about who> > might have designed the
> bridge, or how good they> > were in math? How do you
> know who> > designed it? What if it was designed by
> some very> > creative East Pakistani structural
> engineer> > trained at BE college, like Fazlur Khan,
> who> > developed the structural system for the> >
> Sears Towers? What then?> > > ----- Thanks for
> admiting that East Pakistani> Engineers too can be
> CREATIVE .... I guess you will> have similar view on
> Indian Engineers as well who did> not move out of
> India but contributing in India.> > > If this
> Engineer was "Bright and Creative" Engineer>
> educated in India your earlier assertion that
> Indian> education does not encourage Creativity is
> incorrect,> If this Engineer was "not bright and
> creative" your> land of "checks and balances" still
> lacks some checks> .... right?> > > I thought you
> are an engineer. But from the> > comments you make
> and the questions you ask, I must> > have been
> wrong. Anyway, a bridge's integrity is> > not the
> function of just its design alone. The math> >
> skills of the designer hardly enter the equation. >
> > Most structural elements fail not because of
> design,> > but> > for a variety of other factors,
> most notably due to> > poor construction practices ,
> which is a result of> > incompetent management,
> human failures, sometimes> > corruption--as in
> India,> > 1) So Checks and Balances does not help ??
> I thought> poor construction practices, incompetent
> management> etc are ALL just Indian characteristics.
> > > 2) Corruption DOES NOT happen only in India but
> here> in your adopted homeland too. Big Dig issue
> happened> because of Corruption and not human
> failure(your> information is incorrect > at best or
> twisted at worst). And BTW, in Big Dig> too only a
> couple of mid level managers have been> convicted
> while the big shots went scott free .... how> very
> Indian !!> > > Whoever was overseeing the> >
> logistics of the material delivery either did not> >
> have any knowledge of structures and load bearing> >
> capacity of a structure or was asleep at the wheel.>
> > > So, the bright young Grads did not have
> knowledge> ...what am I missing ... where are your
> checks and> balances> > > The point I am trying to
> make here is that DESIGN is> > only a small factor
> in these cases. At any event,> > MOST structural
> design is not a result of creative> > engineering:
> they are dictated by standards and> > codes> > and
> budgets. Most day-to-day structural engineering> >
> in the USA is done not by highly skilled engineers,>
> > but by 'designers', who are vocational tech.
> school> > graduates with high school degrees,> > It
> was you who mentioned that Creative American>
> Engineers contribute to Nation Building and Indian>
> Engineers have zero contribution in Nation
> Building.> > By Nation Building , I thought building
> infrastructure> which includes Bridges, Roads, Power
> Plants etc. Let> me know what exactly you mean by
> Nation Building.> Do you mean that these structural
> engineers who are> vocational tech school graduates
> are incompetent or> not Bright and Creative enough
> ??> > > > *** Can these be compared? Not if anyone
> is even> > remotely familiar with the issues. An
> Indian> > structural engineer could be a math genius
> and could> > mentally analyze the stress of a rocket
> ships nose> > cone at re-entry. But its usefulness
> in the Indian> > context is zip, zero, nada.> > Was
> it you or some American Engineer who built the>
> Bridges and skyscrappers in India ? Sorry did not>
> know that ...... > > But anyway I can say from my
> field. I am working for> a 100% Indian IT company
> and our company has a Banking> Software which is
> Number 1 Banking Software in World> for 4
> consecutive years ..... and all these developed> by
> "not so creative" Indian Engineers. I can vouch>
> that we did not take help from Chandan Mahanta or
> some> "Bright Creative American Engineer".> > > An
> IIT PhD in structural engineering could design> > US
> skyscrapers with ease, but won't be able to> >
> design a temporary bridge using bamboo and timber
> if> > their life depended on it. Why? Because the
> building> > materials, their quality standards and
> installed> > elements' quality can be and are tested
> and> > trustworthy in the USA. But the quality of >
> > An IIT PhD can (and I am sure has) also designed>
> Indian Skyscrapers and Bridges which does not
> collapse> in less then 50 years.> Coming to the
> point of Bamboo bridge etc, can a MIT> electronic
> Engineer fix a TV set or Radio ?> No ...... Every
> training/teaching has its boundaries. > > In US
> (also in India), every company, even in IT> sector
> has something called HelpDesk which helps them> in
> setting up PC, installing software, networking etc.>
> Most of these people are diploma engineers. Why do>
> you think the Bright Creative Engineers cannot
> setup> their own PC, install their own software or
> setup> their network? > > > *** Again, there is no
> way to compare this for India> > vs USA. India's
> circumstances are far different> > from the USA's.
> But the bottom line could be gauged> > by the
> PERCENTAGE of failures, or the frequency of> > it.
> Like how many American bridges fail out of how> >
> many, compared to in India.> > > Unfortunately, I
> could not find any Indian bridge> which had such
> catastrophic collapse in less then 50> years of
> building. Probably you can help.> And BTW, if you
> want to compare Apples to Apples,> you will also
> need to consider the traffic on any> Indian bridge
> to that of US bridge, the amount spent> in
> constructing a bridge in India v/s that in US etc.>
> > While I am into this, wanted to cover one more
> point> ----> > >>>*** Indian social stigma . You are
> going to be a> plumber? > Horror of horrors. Oh, his
> son> is JUST an electrician. What a shame. That is
> all he> became > with a first division at HS> and
> two letters!> > > *** Refusal to compensate
> adequately for such> services. An > engineer, by
> social status> ( not by skill now) will always be
> paid a far higher > compensation than an electrician
> or> a mechanic.> > > > So the problem is PUBLIC
> POLICY! Governmental policy.> And > social/cultural
> attitudes.> >>>>>> > 1) I can understand the
> social/cultural attitude (and> sure it need to
> change) but I fail to understand HOW> the
> Governmental Policy comes into picture here?> > 2)
> As for compensation, you have Absolutely NO>
> knowledge of Today's India. A good Plumber, >
> Electrician or Mechanic often makes more money then
> an> average Engineer .... at least in Mumbai. Even
> in> Guwahati, I had the opportunity to closely
> observe a> couple of Electronic Mechanics (fixing TV
> etc) and> many of them make much more then your
> imagination.> > Before I conclude, another example
> of how "checks and> balances" fails miserably .....>
>
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070806/ts_nm/mine_utah_dc_6>
> > The link also describes earlier accidents> > Rgds>
> > Krishnendu> > > --- cmahanta at charter.net wrote:> >
> > Hi K:> > > > > > >C'da your comments on this will
> be highly> > appreciated> > --- first because it was
> designed by some Very> > Bright> > and Very Creative
> American Engineer whose Math> > >foundation is very
> strong (unlike some Desi idiot)> > > > > > *** I was
> hoping to be able to answer your question> >
> intelligently. But the premise of your questions> >
> left me completely bewildered.> > > > Did *I* make
> those assertions about the> > qualifications or even
> implied them about who> > might have designed the
> bridge, or how good they> > were in math? How do you
> know who> > designed it? What if it was designed by
> some very> > creative East Pakistani structural
> engineer> > trained at BE college, like Fazlur Khan,
> who> > developed the structural system for the> >
> Sears Towers? What then?> > > > I thought you are an
> engineer. But from the> > comments you make and the
> questions 
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