[Assam] Need of Uniform in Assam Assembly-Reply to Chitta
Jyotirmoy Sharma
jsharma at iinet.net.au
Fri Aug 24 20:14:06 PDT 2007
Never mind --you got the message. That's all that matters. Damned
this English language :-)
JS
On 25/08/2007, at 9:30 AM, mc mahant wrote:
> <There are countless examples that you will find if you care to
> see. So Mr Mahanta, there is fear. Fear that the very values we
> have in Assam will be destroyed when gradually the Assam landscape
> is merged with the Bangladeshi one. When minorities become the
> majority and start imposing their values, religion and way of life -
> there is a reason for concern.>
>
> Please- Netters-take a few days but write a complete,
> readable ,science- laden Essay on this.
>
> And submit it to DOINIK BATORI. They have already started their
> BOODHBORIA BITORKO on 22Aug with this as the subject.
> They will love to print your article.{Please submit Scanned --
> Assamese-Edited}
> dainikbatori at yahoo.com;dainikbatori at rediffmail.com
>
> Give Yours Truly a hint-->shall request Editor Sri A.M.Bhagawati
> to highlight your Contribution.
>
> mm
> From: jsharma at iinet.net.au
> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 06:43:11 +0800
> To: cmahanta at charter.net
> CC: assam at assamnet.org
> Subject: Re: [Assam] Need of Uniform in Assam Assembly-Reply to Chitta
>
> Hi Mr Mahanta
> If I may sneak in....
> The fear of the lungi menace as Chitta had mentioned before is a
> combination of all - religion, language and culture. So
> "Islamophoia" as you call it is also part of it. But let's see
> whether this fear is justified or not.. A few examples from what
> history taught us:-
>
> a) Bangladesh won independence with India's help - even B'desh
> cannot deny that. After independence who do you think their loyalty
> lies - Pak or India? Why? Is religion not the deciding factor. Some
> years back B'desh sent back some 16 mutilated BSF bodies as a gift
> to India as a way of "Thank You". Think those BSF guys were
> involved in border protection and somehow the B'deshis got hold of
> them. Our crippled Govt(think great poet AB Vajpayee -excuse my
> spelling here was the PM then) did not even have the guts to send
> an appropriate response.
>
> b) Babri masjid(an unused mosque) was demolished by some Rs10/hr
> paid goons of VHP-BJP combined. Well known fact and has been widely
> covered in the media. What happened afterwards? Why did the press
> go silent on the hundreds of temples destroyed across Pak/Bdesh.
> Hindus were raped and killed in B'desh. Did media give much
> coverage to that? When a B'deshi woman( Taslima Nasreen) tried to
> cover the atrocities in her book "Lajja" - what happened? A fatwa
> was issued on her head and she had to leave the country. So much
> for open speech, respect for other people and their religion in
> those countries. Tell me Mr Mahanta, what rights does Hindus have
> in B'desh? Do you want these people as your neighbours? Why do we
> always have to bend our backs to accommodate them? So when
> villages, towns, districts are swarmed by these people... should
> people just look the other way as if nothing happened.
>
> There are countless examples that you will find if you care to see.
> So Mr Mahanta, there is fear. Fear that the very values we have in
> Assam will be destroyed when gradually the Assam landscape is
> merged with the Bangladeshi one. When minorities become the
> majority and start imposing their values, religion and way of life -
> there is a reason for concern.
>
> JS
>
>
>
> On 25/08/2007, at 1:50 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote:
>
> Hi Chitta:
>
>
> >IMHO this problem can not be solved by government of India or by
> those whom you want to see in >power. Influx will continue till
> potential difference, osmotic pressure on both sides become equal.
> >All the attempts to solve the problem will just may be increase
> the resistance, but flow will not >cease till pressure equalisation
> occurs.
>
>
> *** Is this YOUR personal view, or is it the view of ALL who are
> outraged over the 'lungi menace' and are besides themselves, in
> Assamnet , in Assam and in the Hinduttwa circles in India?
>
> Regardless, IF that is the reality, then why the shrill, xenophobic
> rhetoric in various shades of camouflage all over? Is it HELPING in
> any way, other than POISONING the environment every which way?
>
> Knowing this reality, those who ceaselessly keep pointing at the
> lungi-menace specter, but doing or seeking nothing to help MANAGE
> the problem by taking steps that are realistic , achievable and
> humane, do it because of WHAT Chitta?
>
> I would submit, it is in big part, due to various degrees of
> Islamophobia. And since that upsets you, perhaps you will have a
> more persuasive and benign explanation?
>
>
>
>
>
> Krishnendu said
> ***“Thanks for rejecting the voting by Indian/Assamese population.
> This really shows how much willing you are to accept the verdict of
> people. You will surely reject the referendum on similar flimsy
> ground that these people do not know what they are doing. And
> before you jump on debate and discussion, if there is a really free
> platform to debate (without threats from some sections), there will
> be many more voice rejecting the Sovereignty issue. As you have
> noticed, the Assamese intellegsia has already rejected Sovereign
> Assam theory (if you think otherwise, tell me 10 prominent people
> of Assam who support it); you have already rejected the voting by
> common people of Assam ..... So who remains to support you on your
> referendum?
>
>
> Mahanta da , your response to Krishnendu’s above observation will
> be appreciated. We can see that Krishnedu’s logical Brahmstras are
> proving to be too much for you. So just one more small query on
> what he said. I think this was also missed by you and response will
> clear the doubts of many people.
>
>
> *** Heh-heh! That is about as absurd a set of questions as one can
> imagine. But since you guys thought that is your ACE , your trump
> card, here we are:
>
> >Thanks for rejecting the voting by Indian/Assamese
> population.
>
> ***You explained below:
>
>
> I did not know that you woulld be so removed from
> demographic reality of Assam. Do you
> or I have any clue of that 65% who voted what % will be
> those who are considered as
> threat or what % feels threatened? For every one's benefit
> lingustic break up of 2001
> census is also kept secret. So 100% of turn out in Assam
> election also does not mean
> you can have a government which will reflect the aspiration
> of origianl inhabitants o
> the state.
>
>
> *** Is this the democracy you are so devoted to? And WHO exactly
> is this govt. elected by therefore? B'deshis? And if so what are
> you guys doing about it?
>
>
> Can't you see the appalling contradictions in yours or K's
> statements, assertions and questions?
>
>
> So, do YOU accept the election result as a democratic verdict,
> given by an informed polity, considering the issues ?
>
> If it is not, like you all spare no words to present it as on the
> one hand and on the other hand accuse me not only of being
> undemocratic for pointing it out, but also insinuate my promoting
> an autocratic regime for Assam?
>
> Is it even nominally an intellectually honest argument?
>
>
>
> >If tomorrow Assam gets that elusive independence, how do you plan
> to run the Govt (i.e. if you plan to >migrate back to Assam to help
> build it)
>
> **** My first option will be to try the STEPS you all are
> advocating to change Assam to a truly democratic state.
>
> But since there is nothing there, zero, zit, nada, gwlla---I will
> propose what I delineated in the final chapter of Why Independence
> posts right here in assamnet a few months back.
>
> Democratic values do not fall from the sky, nor are they produced
> by an innate condition, imprinted on desi-genes. It has to be
> inculcated, taught. It would not happen 'overnight' , fairy-tale
> like. But in a decade or two it will change dramatically, unlike
> the past six decades in which desi-demokrasy has remained;
> dysfunctional, mired in slogans and make-beliefs, waved only to
> seek the blessings of those it so craves, but does not give a damn
> in reality.
>
>
>
> >And before you jump on debate and discussion, if there is a really
> free platform to debate (without >threats from some sections),
>
>
> **** That is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Since no forum exists for
> a free and unfettered discussion , thanks to its intelligentsia's
> democratic values, why talk about a referendum?
>
> Well how about RAISING your voices to change that? Is it a
> possibility? Surely you spare no words to bring the lungi-menace to
> the forefront, do you?
>
>
>
> > If tomorrow Assam gets that elusive independence, how do you plan
> to run the Govt (i.e. if you plan to >migrate back to Assam to help
> build it) with the entire population favoring Desi Demokrasy ? One
> >option might be to go for a ethnic cleansing and import hoards of
> Bangladeshis to run it.
>
>
> **** Again the first impulse will be to depend on desi-demokrasy's
> finest, its bureaucracy, its laws and its institutions of
> democracy. But since Assam is where it is, BECAUSE of it, we will
> have to change things. Won't happen overnight. But it is doable.
> Many others have done that in the past.
>
> But it takes an ability to IMAGINE things. An absence of
> imagination is what gives rise to questions like the above. Try it
> a sometimes. You mighrt actually get hooked.
>
> m-da :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 9:33 AM -0700 8/18/07, chittaranjan pathak wrote:
> Mahanta da
> Please find my responses to your observation
>
> CM*** That is your explanation. OK, fair enough. Let me ask you
> this: What is your reaction to garish alien culture temples pock-
> marking the once beautiful Assamese landscape, including smack-dab
> in the middle of Kaziranga ? When was the last time you can point
> to anyone complaing about that?
>
> Mahanta da I dont blame you. Guwahati, halt at wild grass and then
> to upper Assam. That must be your usual route in Assam. Go to lower
> Assam-Dhubri, Kokrajhar, Barpeta-you will start wondering whether
> landscape belongs to Assam , Bengal or Bangladesh.
>
> CM***Or for that matter full 25 % of Karbi Anglong population is
> Hindi speaking, about to get its own autonomous defense
> establishment? Or of Tinsukia ?
>
> By automous defence establishment -do you mean police districts?
> When compared to area of other Assam districts, KA may be can have
> some 10 police districts. In fact Assam governemnt was for long
> thinking about declaring the separate landmass of Hamren as
> separate district. But 6th schedule and Karbi politics was blocking
> this. So this new move does not have anything to do with the Hindi
> speaking people.
> And on this 25% population-Assamese do not go to do those manial
> jobs in KA or NC Hills. So body will have to work in the field of
> Karbi farmers-is not it? Compare their (the Biharis of KA)
> population (some 50,000) and political clout with people of
> suspected foreign nationality. And these people are still known as
> Desuwali because under very adverse situation they still go back to
> their Chaapra, Darbhanga, Munger, Bhagalpur etc.So I did not get it
> what was so great about 25% figure-that to in a district which is
> one of the most sparsely populated.
> ***Now then a huge problem facing the 'Oxomiya' identity not to
> mention 'national-security' and complete destruction of the rule of
> law ( as aptly pointed out by Ram) has been brewing and building
> for over a quarter century -- the lungi menace. A select group of
> Oxomiyas ( I won't attempt to label it, but I could :-)) and a
> certain segment of the English language press have been wailing
> about it, charging ULFA with carrying out ISI orders to gift wrap
> Assam over to Islamists from the east, and to be fair, when
> challenged, at least nominally admitting GOVERNMENTS'
> responsibilities over the issue: Upholding the laws of the land.
>
> Well well Mahanta da-this Bangladeshi nationals issue and some
> Assamese crying foul over it-are you trying to avoid dubbing it as
> a problem or threat just because your ULFA is blamed by some people
> for encouraging the influx? If instead of ULFA , BSF or government
> would have been blamed, then may be you would have accepted it as a
> problem haunting Assamese nationality. And may be you might have
> used it as a prime reason for wanting to be independent. We salute
> your blind faith-no more on this issue.
>
> ***For over twenty five years this dereliction of
> governmental duties ( as pointed out by Ram, the Sentinel, Dilli
> based security analysts etc.) for failing to stem the flow of the
> lungi-menace has been going on, unabated. Do the governments care?
> What are the governmental duties? Whose duty is what? What have
> they been doing? Would it be reasonable to say almost NOTHING? If
> so, don't the voters who vote so intelligently ( as I was corrected
> by outraged netters for my temerity to question that recently )
> CARE about this abject dereliction of governmental duties?
> Would it be reasonable for us to conclude THEY DON'T, as soundly
> affirmed by the re-election of the Assam government by a huge 65%
> voter turnout?
>
> I did not know that you woulld be so removed from demographic
> reality of Assam. Do you or I have any clue of that 65% who voted
> what % will be those who are considered as threat or what % feels
> threatened? For every one's benefit lingustic break up of 2001
> census is also kept secret. So 100% of turn out in Assam election
> also does not mean you can have a government which will reflect the
> aspiration of origianl inhabitants of the state.
>
> ***So Chitta, tell me why anyone should BELIEVE that your
> outrage over the 'lungi-menace' or Ram's or of the others like you,
> is over ILLEGALITY of the immigrants?
>
> Again I am at loss. Elected government has failed to check the
> influx. Does that mean people should remain silent just because
> government is elected by them knowing fully well that Assam's
> demography is not like Orissa or Bengal to give a government which
> will be more reflective of one single majority community's
> aspiration. Governemnt is constrained by some of its own components
> because of the process of democracy in a demographically
> heterogeneous Assam and this constrain will remain even if Assam is
> separated from India.
>
> ***That leaves the Islamophobia , as the pre-eminent reason, as is
> evidenced by a pervasive and ancient animus. Oh I know that most
> know how to package it in genteel and secular wraps. And it is not
> as virulent as say Togadia's, or the RSS' or VHP's or displaced
> Sileti Hindus' . I point here to the RSS' Jagadamba Mall's
> article in its mouthpiece the Organizer, quoted in Sanjib Baruah's
> Post Frontier Blues as an example.
>
> Oh really!! I knew this where you were coming at. Forget Togodia
> and come back to your Xonor Oxom. So you believe Assamese people
> become paranoid because of the religion issue only? Where was the
> religion and islamic component when hundreds of people have been
> killed in Karbi-Kuki, Bodo-Adivasi conflicts? Tell me in your
> pristine northeast in the conflicts between Naga-Asomiya, Khasi-
> Garo, Karbi-Dimasa where people are killed just because they do not
> speak, dress, eat alike-where is the islamic anagle? Were you
> trying to say that Togodias communal politics have taught Assamese
> people to be xenophobic and otherwise there was no issue with
> xenophobia in Assam and NE?
>
> ***But even in its benign wrappings, the outcry, replete with
> claims of a grand conspiracy to hand Assam over to B'desh, over
> their own 'democratically elected' government conspiring to certify
> illegals as genuine, of ULFA as an ISI agent doing its bidding to
> help overrun Assam with the lungi-menace, of posing shrill
> questions like 'how is it that Arunachal or Nagaland can throw them
> out but we can't' ; the message is very clear to all those who are
> not inferentially challenged.
> Who are we kidding?
>
> What is the message Mahanta da?
>
> ***I am not suggesting the outrage is not justifiable. There is
> some justification to it--as far as governmental dysfunction is.
> But where is Assam's intelligentsia or for that matter India's,
> to act to help change the unresponsive and dysfunctional system?
> When have you seen an editor-for-hire write an editorial on HOW to
> change the dysfunctional government.
>
> Were we discussing the duty of press or government or you were
> supposed to tell us why you dub Assamese people's anti-BDeshi
> tirade as anti muslim? We all know, you do not have the answer.
>
>
> ****Last but not the least is the absence of a remotely informed
> and intelligent discourse on HOW can the B'deshi problem , both
> real and imagined , be resolved, if at all?
>
> IMHO this problem can not be solved by government of India or by
> those whom you want to see in power. Influx will continue till
> potential difference, osmotic pressure on both sides become equal.
> All the attempts to solve the problem will just may be increase the
> resistance, but flow will not cease till pressure equalisation occurs.
>
> ***Can YOU explain why it is missing ? I have some ideas. But I
> know it will distract everyone from the subject as it always does,
> when I share my views :-). Want to give it a try?
>
> By all means-lets give it a try. Please share your views.
>
> Also Mahanta da you seem to have missed some vital questions asked
> by Krishnendu. It will be so nice if you try to throw some light on
> those also.
>
> Krishnendu said
> ***“Thanks for rejecting the voting by Indian/Assamese population.
> This really shows how much willing you are to accept the verdict of
> people. You will surely reject the referendum on similar flimsy
> ground that these people do not know what they are doing. And
> before you jump on debate and discussion, if there is a really free
> platform to debate (without threats from some sections), there will
> be many more voice rejecting the Sovereignty issue. As you have
> noticed, the Assamese intellegsia has already rejected Sovereign
> Assam theory (if you think otherwise, tell me 10 prominent people
> of Assam who support it); you have already rejected the voting by
> common people of Assam ..... So who remains to support you on your
> referendum?
>
>
> Mahanta da , your response to Krishnendu’s above observation will
> be appreciated. We can see that Krishnedu’s logical Brahmstras are
> proving to be too much for you. So just one more small query on
> what he said. I think this was also missed by you and response will
> clear the doubts of many people.
>
> ***Krishnendu said
> “ Over past few years we have learnt that School Teachers of Assam,
> Villagers of Assam (who lynched ULFA), Bureaucrats of Assam, Assam
> Police, AXX and now even Assam Press ----- all of them favor Desi
> Demokrasy over Independent Assam ..... enemies of Assam. If
> tomorrow Assam gets that elusive independence, how do you plan to
> run the Govt (i.e. if you plan to migrate back to Assam to help
> build it) with the entire population favoring Desi Demokrasy ? One
> option might be to go for a ethnic cleansing and import hoards of
> Bangladeshis to run it. Not sure if that is the plan :)”
>
>
> If I can reframe his question-in the new scheme of things you wish
> for, how will you change the mindset of the population. Can you
> cite the example of a role model who has capacity to inspire the
> entire disaffected lot? One who will not be affected by money, one
> who will not go Prafulla-Bharat Narah way, one who will not resort
> to all too familiar plunder to make for the time lost in jungle?
> Give it a try if you can. If you had the answers , may be you could
> have said in few lines. But to hide that lack of answer, you will
> have to write a tretise to distract, confuse us. So if it takes
> please feel free to skip the questions. We understand Mahanta da!!
> Regards
> Chittaranjan
>
>
>
>
> m-da
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 6:21 AM -0700 8/14/07, chittaranjan pathak wrote:
> Well, yes Mahanta da, I am still at loss.
> Please explain to me and to others like Ramda, more explicitly why
> you try to make the Assamese Hindus suffer from collective guilt
> complex by dubbing their anti BDesh stance as an anti Muslim one.
> Decrying others of being unnecessarily sensitive to lungi menace
> and yourself garbing a selectively broadminded image-this is quite
> beguiling!! Or is there a hidden motive and may be you also have
> the same level of jingoism you accuse your fellow Assamese Hindus
> of harbouring, which for the time being may be you have kept in
> suspended animation for some technical reasons.
>
> By the way, a clarification on why I used the term Assamese Hindus
> (at which you jumped to emphasize that the usage of that term
> itself exposed every thing-I don’t know what you meant)
> 1) I believe amongst the Assamese speakers-they (Hindus) are still
> in majority in Assam. Or do you think otherwise?
> 2) They are the more vocal on this issue infiltration by BDeshis
> 3) This feeling of paranoia is present amongst Assamese speaking
> Muslim also. But their protestations are not that loud as their
> Hindu counterparts as they are less in number, many come from more
> disadvantaged back ground. Many of those who are economically well
> off, educated, learned and city bred (say from Lakhtokiya of
> Guwahati), same religious affiliations and post 9/11 more cohesive
> feeling make it some what difficult for them to be as vocal as
> their Hindu counterparts. Most of the educated Assamese Hindus
> understand this dilemma and should not have qualms about it.
> So I hope it is now clear why I used the term Assamese Hindus?
> CM said
> *****Are only 'Assamese Hindus' burdened by illegal immigrants? Is
> Assam the home of B'deshi despising Hindus only? And if they are
> the only ones outraged or aggrieved, then is it ALL of Assam's
> Hindus or most or just a handful of them? And is it because of:
> The offenders' name?
> The color of their skin?
> Their cuisine?
> The language they speak?
> The lungis they wear and the skull-caps they flaunt?
> The unkind cuts the male of their species live with?
> The high wage jobs they deprive the natives of?
> The economy they depress by their dependence on public charity?
> The criminal activities they spread in society?
> The corruption they promote by bribery of public officials?
> The economic progress they thwart by their habitual sloth?
> Inundate the free public health-care system?
> Flood the public school system with children of the non-producing,
> lowering the quality of education?
> Usurp and rob the Oxomiya bhaxa of its purity and ownership?
> Other ills I have not mentioned, deliberately or otherwise?
> Or is it because of their religious persuasion?*****
>
> Your numerous clues did not help me much. If the last line was your
> punch line it is again the same hackneyed manifestation of your
> covert agenda. As I told you many times before-it is not the
> religion alone. It is the religion combined with language combined
> with an alien culture that has been causing the discomfort. If
> there are millions of khukri wielding Saulor phut luwa Daajus and
> Kaanchas also, the reaction of the local populace would have been
> similar.
> So I am still at dark about your attempts. Please explain more
> explicitly and clearly unlike those numerous inconclusive mails
> where you end by saying something like “I will explain later if you
> want” or by adopting those avoiding techniques saying that “I will
> explain if you first answer this question”.
> Come on Mahanta da enlighten us on the eve of 60th Independence Day
> of India.
> Regards
> Chittaranjan Pathak
>
> Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see
> what's on, when.
> *** That is your explanation. OK, fair enough. Let me ask you this:
> What is your reaction to garish alien culture temples pock-marking
> the once beautiful Assamese landscape, including smack-dab in the
> middle of Kaziranga ? When was the last time you can point to
> anyone complaing about that?
>
>
>
> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
> Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at
> Yahoo! Games.
>
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