[Assam] PC Ram found dead
Chan Mahanta
cmahanta at charter.net
Mon Jul 2 12:00:27 PDT 2007
Hi Mohan:
At 2:37 PM -0400 7/1/07, Mohan R. Palleti wrote:
>C'da
>It is unfortnate that ULFA's terror has not abated.
*** Indeed. Are you surprised ?
> >PC Ram's death is a shame on us. The GOI, the GOA both combined
>have failed miserably in
>saving PC Ram.
*** Again, are you surprised? Never expected it?
So what are doing about that?
It is quite obvious that ULFA does not pay any heed to your 'gaalis'
( abuses). Nor do they care about your wishes for them to disappear.
And if I had to guess, your gods aren't being very responsive either.
Now, even your governments have let you down. That I am sure was a
huge disappointment. What is the answer therefore, Mohan?
> >How is it that when every single individual who has spoken on this net has
>>condemned the ULFA, only you have chosen to be the ambassador in support
>of the ULFA?
*** And having condemned, what have they gained, what have they
achieved? Oh I realize that they have asserted to the world, to
anyone who is watching, how good they are, of their unbound piety and
care for their fellow men who are ULFA's victims. And I won't devalue
that. I am sure it lightens the burdens of the victims. But , what
else?
*** I don't do things frivolously. I have a mission. It is to help
bring the conflict to an end, to help end the
bloodshed, but honorably and sustainably. And I can care less about
how YOU or OTHERS like you perceive me as, how BAD I might be and so
forth.
You know Mohan, just because a lot of people say the same thing, does
not make it right . On the other hand, history has shown over and
over again, that often the dissenting minority, or the lone holdout
is proven right in the long run. Taking the easy path rarely ever
leads to solutions to complex problems. And change never comes from
the hordes of the defenders of the status-quo.
> >I regret that such a well informed and intelligent person as you are have
>chosen to speak in this vein.
*** I am sorry to disappoint you Mohan. But you are neither the first
nor will be the last :-).
c-da
>PC Ram's death is a
>shame on us. The GOI, the GOA both combined have failed miserably in
>saving PC Ram.
>
>How is it that when every single individual who has spoken on this net has
>condemned the ULFA, only you have chosen to be the ambassador in support
>of the ULFA?
>
>I regret that such a well informed and intelligent person as you are have
>chosen to speak in this vein.
>
>Mohan R. Palleti
>
>
>
>
>> C'da
>>
>>>But WHO determines who should be given that label of 'terrorist' or
>> '>criminal'?
>>
>> Unfortunately, it is the country that the terrorists are dealing with.
>>
>>>Is it an ABSOLUTE standard, or is it something that varies, depending on
>>>the convenience of those who apply that label?
>>
>> It is entirely up to the country, and of course it is a matter of
>> convenience. If terrorists can choose their sweet time when to act as
>> terrorists or when to act as regular citizens, why can't country do so?
>>
>>>Ronald Reagan declared the former Soviet Union the Evil Empire.....
>>
>> I know, C'da... these look like grand flip-flops. But terrorists ought to
>> know by now that countries do that. One way may be to get off that list
>> is
>> to play ball.
>>
>>
>>>I think you fail to understand what serious repercussion such incidents
>>> can
>> invite to Assamese people living in other Hindi speaking states of India.
>> Imagine an Assamese student/family being assaulted, killed in Gaziabad.
>> Who
>> do you think will come to protect them?
>>
>>
>>>*** First of all, let us assume for a moment that the news that you
>>> posted
>>>is accurate.
>>
>> First of all, I did NOT write the above. JS did - so I will let him answer
>> you .
>>
>> But, I would like weigh in a bit here.
>>
>> Is the "NEWS" true or false? The AT also had a report. But then that too
>> is
>> a rag (at least by your standards).
>>
>> Should one wait for the ULFA to decide whether they should say "yes" or
>> "no"?
> > I guess we should - get the truth from the horses mouth, so to speak. :)
>>
>> Now, on the other part - about Assamese being in danger in other parts of
>> the country.
>> IMHO, they are NOT and will NOT be. But then I will have to leave it
>> people
>> who actually live in these other parts of India.
>>
>> I think, one will find, that in other cities - usually the big cities or
>> the
>> metros, no one has time nor the inclination to form a posse to hunt down
>> Assamese here and there. But have heard Biharis attacking people from the
>> NE
>> in trains.
>>
>>>Most of all, if India is a civilized nation with a rule of laws, why
>>> should
>> the >Assamese living in Hindi speaking states be afraid?
>>
>> For the most part, most Indians (as I stated earlier) will not go about
>> hunting other Indians (read Assamese here) because of this killing or
>> another.
>>
>> But you, on the other hand, are free to condemn all Indians, their
>> democracy, their history and even their civilization if one army man goes
>> haywire.
>>
>> >Why I ask is that this particular rag has a track record of publishing
>> rumors >as facts. I will await further info. on it before *I* make my
>> judgement.
>>
>> Hehe! I knew that - That is WHY, I took care only to mention Terrorists
>> and
>> NOT any particular group. I am waiting for the "official" word.
>>
>> I am not sure why you are so sensitive...... "baator kosu
>> ..............."
> > :) :)
>>
>> *My discussion was entirely on whether countries should keep an option
>> open
>> for talks with those who they label as "terrorists".*
>>
>> IMHO, as long as the label sticks (and it is convenient for them :)),
>> countries ought to take a stand and not negotiate. That actually may be a
>> good solution for many countries, including India.
>>
>> BTW: both China/Russia are ruthless when dealing with their terrorists,
>> and
>> there is NOT a Peep from any one!
>>
>> --Ram
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/1/07, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >One does not negotiate with terrorists and criminals.
>>>
>>>
>>> '
>>> *** Really? Maybe so. But WHO determines who should be given that label
>>> of
>>> 'terrorist' or 'criminal'? Can another terrorist or criminal apply it
>>> on
>>> somebody else ? Is it an ABSOLUTE standard, or is it something that
>>> varies,
>>> depending on the convenience of those who apply that label?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Take for example the case of Fatah. For decades Israel, the USA etc have
>>> called them TERRORISTS and treated them as such, killing them,
>>> imprisoning
>>> them. But right now both Israel and the US are embracing Fatah as the
>>> good
>>> folks. What gives? Convenience? A good ploy to cement the rift between
>>> Fatah and Hamas, both politically as well as geographically?
>>>
>>>
>>> Ronald Reagan declared the former Soviet Union the Evil Empire. But as
>>> as
>>> soon as the Communist regime fell, Russia became a friend. George Bush
>>> went
>>> to meet Putin, the former spook, looked into his eyes and saw his heart
>>> and
>>> declared it was in the right place.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mandela was declared a terrorist both by South Africa as well as by Dick
>>> Cheney and his cronies, was imprisoned for decades. But now he is
>>> considered
>>> a great statesman.
>>>
>>>
>>> Menachem Begin, the past Israeli PM, was declared a TERRORIST by the
>>> British. Later he was re-labeled a freedom- fighter and was accorded the
>>> veneration of a head of state.
>>>
>>>
>>> So, one needs to look at the* source* from where these labels come and
>>> judge them accordingly.
>>>
>>>
>>> Should we accept Jyoti Sharma's or Ram Sarangapani's labels as the
>>> ultimate truths?
>>>
>>>
>>> Take a wild guess.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >I think you fail to understand what serious repercussion such incidents
>>> can invite to Assamese people living in other Hindi speaking states of
>>> India.
>>> Imagine an Assamese student/family being assaulted, killed in Gaziabad.
>>> Who do you think will come to protect them?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *** First of all, let us assume for a moment that the news that you
>>> posted is accurate. We will get to that later. EVEN if it is true that
>>> PC
>>> Ram was killed by ULFA or whoever, does that make ALL Assamese GUILTY of
> >> the
>>> crime? Is that how Indian Civilization works? And IF that is the
>>> SOURCE
>>> of applying such labels to ULFA or whoever, what is the VALUE of such
>>> labels?
>>>
>>>
>>> Furthermore, if ALL Assamese are to be considered criminals by all these
>>> fine Indians, WHY only the Hindi speaking ones? Why not Tamils,
>>> Telegus,
>>> Kannadas, Bengalis, Malayalis? Don't they have empathy for the Hindi
>>> speaking victims?
>>>
>>>
>>> Most of all, if India is a civilized nation with a rule of laws, why
>>> should the Assamese living in Hindi speaking states be afraid? Will you
>>> be
>>> afraid in Autralia, because Indian Hindu terrorists burnt the
>>> Aurstralian
>>> missionary , his wife and children alive? Can't the Assamese in Hindi
>>> speaking states depend upon equal protection of the great Indian
>>> democracy?
>>>
>>>
>>> Or is that great Indian democracy is a myth? That it is really ruled by
>>> terrorists of various kinds, as is amply demonstrated by recent events
>>> all
>>> across India?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >Well now that Army operations will be on a full scale let's see how
>>> long
>>> it takes PCG to come out of >hibernation. Or has the PCG been dismissed
>>> and
>>> another one formed by Mamoni?
>>>
>>>
>>> *** That is certainly NEWS. I had no idea that the army has not been
>>> operating in 'full scale'. What triggers full-scale operations rumored
> >> killing of high Indian officials only?
>>>
>>>
>>> Also I had no idea that the PCG or Mamoni had been hiding. Even if
>>> they
>>> were, if the army goes on a rampage killing innocents, should they
>>> remain
>>> silent as a penance for PC Ram's rumored killing?
>>> Is this some kind of a higher civilizational rung that only Indians
>>> have
>>> reached , and if the PCG is not there yet, they can be fair objects of
>>> ridicule and taunts from such intellectual titans as Jyoti Sharma?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *** Finally the veracity of PC Ram's death from ULFA: Is this a
>>> Telegraph
>>> scoop or is it a verified fact?
>>> Why I ask is that this particular rag has a track record of publishing
>>> rumors as facts. I will await further info. on it before *I* make my
>>> judgement.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At 11:12 AM +0800 7/1/07, Jyotirmoy Sharma wrote:
>>>
>>> **** Why don't you tell us? Educate us?
>>>
>>>
>>> One does not negotiate with terrorists and criminals.
>>>
>>> I think you fail to understand what serious repercussion such incidents
>>> can invite to Assamese people living in other Hindi speaking states of
>>> India.
>>> Imagine an Assamese student/family being assaulted, killed in Gaziabad.
>>> Who do you think will come to protect them?
>>>
>>>
>>> Well now that Army operations will be on a full scale let's see how long
>>> it takes PCG to come out of hibernation. Or has the PCG been dismissed
>>> and
>>> another one formed by Mamoni?
>>>
>>> JS
>>>
>>> On 01/07/2007, at 10:42 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote:
>>>
>>> Does the govt still need to talk with such groups? If yes, then about
>>> what? I don't see Mr Bush sitting down with the Al-Qaeda leaders to
>>> discuss
>>> Iraq or Mr Putin discussing Russia's future with Cechen rebels. Why
>>> should
>>> India/Assam be any different?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> **** Why don't you tell us? Educate us?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At 9:25 AM +0800 7/1/07, Jyotirmoy Sharma wrote:
>>>
>>> http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070701/asp/frontpage/story_7999536.asp
>>>
>>> This incident and several others like these make me ashamed to say that
>>> I
>>> am an Assamese. The ULFA and their cahoots have done irreparable damage
>>> to
>>> Assam and Assamese. How does the ULFA sympathizers spin this story now?
>>> Did
>>> they gain anything out of this? Yes - scared the hell out of potential
>>> domestic and foreign investors, tourists. Our boys and their
>>> intellectual
>>> colleagues have done their very best to make Assam a Taliban country.
>>>
>>> Does the govt still need to talk with such groups? If yes, then about
>>> what? I don't see Mr Bush sitting down with the Al-Qaeda leaders to
>>> discuss
>>> Iraq or Mr Putin discussing Russia's future with Cechen rebels. Why
>>> should
> >> India/Assam be any different?
>>>
>>> JS
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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