[Assam] Day2: Assam 2007: Pt2; engg colleges, NRAs

Fri Jul 6 20:29:27 PDT 2007

Umesh,

You are turning a very serious discussion of prioritising and trying to
solve the genuine problems of Assam into a light-hearted rhetorical
debate.Ihave neither the time nor  interest in explaining the meaning
of each and
every word to a person,who chooses to remain steadfast,  not to grasp the
true meaning of it .

Those who refuse to understand,no amount of explanation is possible.

Thank you very much for wasting my time.

KJD

On 7/6/07, umesh sharma <jaipurschool at yahoo.com > wrote:
>
> Kamal-da,
>
> In other words you have no solutions.
> Descartes said " I think therefore I am"  -- but perhaps you think if you
> think you are a dreamer only.
>
> I wonder how IIT- Guwahati is surviving all these floods --are the
> students studying in boats floating in the flood seasons - as per your view
> of future of engineering college students in Assam.
>
> How about those of Assam Institute of Management and of Assam Engg
> College?
>
> Umesh
>
> *kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com >* wrote:
>
> No,I suggest that we act like ostriches, bury our heads in the sand and
> keep on dreaming of  big dreams!!!!!!!
>
> KJD
>
>
> On 7/6/07, umesh sharma <jaipurschool at yahoo.com > wrote:
> >
> > Kamal-da,
> >
> > So what do you suggest?  Is it that since floods are a "grim reality"
> > --so  stop living and start worrying?
> >
> > Umesh
> >
> > *kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com >* wrote:
> >
> > The tea gardens of Assam are located in the hills !!!?
> >
> > Floods are everywhere,even in America.Does that mean that we can compare
> > Assam with any state of the USA ? You did not seem to understand my
> > point.The  scenario of flood was used metaphorically.If you build a
> > castle where there are no pathways to reach there,what good is it have one
> > at the first place ? I gave the following example in one of my earlier mails
> > and let me repeat that  again.What would you think about a child,who
> > wants to run before being able to walk ?
> >
> > The recurrence of flood in Assam is a grim reality.It has never been an
> > excuse.
> >
> > KJD
> >
> >
> > On 7/5/07, umesh sharma <jaipurschool at yahoo.com > wrote:
> > >
> > > Kamal-da,
> > >
> > > MyMumbai roommate has to wade thru neck deep water at times -as he
> > > told me --- there are floods in Mumbai also ---so why is Guwahati not like
> > > Mumbai.
> > >
> > > Why do all the engineering colleges have to be in areas where there
> > > are floods -- why not near tea gardens in hill regions??  Why always the
> > > excuse of floods?
> > > at
> > > Umesh
> > >
> > > *kamal deka < kjit.deka at gmail.com>* wrote:
> > >
> > > Umesh,
> > >
> > > You need not worry about my faith in the Assamese youth.Restassured--it's
> > > intact.However,I am more concerned about their having to wade through
> > > waist-deep flood water,trying to reach to these engineering colleges that
> > > you are dreaming of !!!
> > >
> > > It is a case of Mary Antoinette saying " give them cake",when the
> > > masses were shouting in hunger for bread.Who is having Utopian dream
> > > here,I wonder ?
> > >
> > > One can't draw parallel between Bangalore and Assam.Had that been the
> > > case,Bangalore would not have been the hub of IT or Silicon valley of
> > > India.One has to live in Assam for few years to realize the
> > > shortcomings of the government for which the state has been lagging behind
> > > so much as far as basic infrastructure is concerned.
> > >
> > > By the way,I would have refused to become the ' mouth organ ' or '
> > > mouth piece ' of a community about whom I have scant knowledge.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > KJD
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 7/5/07, umesh sharma <jaipurschool at yahoo.com > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Kamal-da,
> > > >
> > > > It is utopian to think that only after ALL infrastructure is in
> > > > place the engineering colleges should be built. Even now in Bangalore there
> > > > is utter disregard for transporttation issues - etc -- traffic jams etc
> > > > -but  ......you get the point I am sure. Ofcourse you need infrastructure
> > > > for the colleges -- I am sure local high schools can rise to the occasion.
> > > >
> > > > A Boro from remote Kokrajhar district of Assam (as he told me)
> > > > Utpal-da Brahma (IIT, IIM , NDA select) was a graduate of Kokrajhar Govt
> > > > High School and studied for IIT entrance from correspondence/distance
> > > > education Agrawal clases and Brilliant Tutorials. Have faith in Assamese
> > > > youth Kamal-da!!
> > > >
> > > > Umesh
> > > >
> > > > *kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>* wrote:
> > > >
> > > > That's exactly what I wanted to say.One can't do away with the
> > > > problem of flood,but one can alleviate the sufferings of affected ones to
> > > > the minimum by taking timely and appropriate measures.
> > > >
> > > > As I wrote earlier,setting up of engineering colleges in round
> > > > numbers is okay,but building up of infrastructure is a sine-qua-non of
> > > > economic development.By infrastructure,I mean to refer to the social
> > > > overhead facilities,relating to
> > > > power,roads,railways,banking,communication,education,health etc. *WITHOUT
> > > > THESE FACILITIES ON HAND,TO INSIST ON BUILDING BUNCH OF ENGINEERING COLLEGES
> > > > IS ANALOGOUS TO A CHILD WHO WANTS TO RUN BEFORE BEING ABLE TO WALK !!!!!
> > > > *
> > > >
> > > > Allow me to furnish an example.Out of some 22 thousand villages,more
> > > > than 8000 villages ( I may be  little off in citing these figures ) have
> > > > still remain unconnected with all-weather roads.How costly are their
> > > > production,consumption and trade can be easily imagined. *The bottom
> > > > line is this---one can build new engineering colleges as many as he or she
> > > > wants to,but that is not going to cast a magic spell in the economic
> > > > development of Assam unless sincere efforts are made to put those basic
> > > > facilities into proper place. *
> > > >
> > > > KJD
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 7/4/07, Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >Yes,yes--we have to live with it ( I mean,flood ),but can we live
> > > > > with >it using some intelligence ?
> > > > >
> > > > > KJD,
> > > > >
> > > > > We really DO NOT have to live with it Or 'learn to live and dance
> > > > > with floods' like Sarat Singha (I think) said.
> > > > > While it is inevitable, the Stafected oneste Govt. can play a
> > > > > major role in minimizing the affects, loss of life and destruction of
> > > > > crops/cattle.
> > > > >
> > > > > About also thinking about engg. colleges, C'da is correct. This
> > > > > state Govt. does not have to be flood control centric.
> > > > > The govt. ought to be able to cope and prepare for floods (on an
> > > > > annual basis), think also about lessening the blow (floods) for the long
> > > > > term, but also of other things like education, engg. colleges, and general
> > > > > development of areas not developed.
> > > > >
> > > > > The people should  expect the Govt. (their elected
> > > > > representatives) to be able to handle all this and more - that is the test
> > > > > the govt. ought to able to pass. (IMHO)
> > > > >
> > > > > --Ram
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 7/4/07, kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes,yes--we have to live with it ( I mean,flood ),but can
> > > > > > we live with it using some intelligence ? Consider this---here is a
> > > > > > state,where flood control department ( flood that brings misery to the
> > > > > > people ) is considered a prize posting, while education department
> > > > > > (education, which is concerned with the upliftment of a society ) is seen as
> > > > > > a punishment posting !!!! And this tells you the chunk of the story.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I can write an scholarly essay as to why one should lay stress
> > > > > > on the improvement of other areas instead of emphasizing on setting up new
> > > > > > engineering colleges at this time.Chandanda has already touched
> > > > > > on those points and I am in total agreement with him.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > KJD
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 7/4/07, Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi KJD,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >In my considered opinion,the problem of flood is the most
> > > > > > > >menacing natural calamity,experienced by the state every year >particularly
> > > > > > > since the great earthquake of 1950
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I agree, this is a much bigger and affecting more people than
> > > > > > > Engg. colleges. And this is a problem that happens every year.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, Umesh did report "after the negative reception he
> > > > > > > received at Boston conference ". Don't know exactly what that means - but
> > > > > > > will just leave it at that,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regarding the annual floods: Here are thoughts (and I could be
> > > > > > > totally off base in my assumptions)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > IMHO, the annual floods are are going to happen every year. I
> > > > > > > don't think we can increase/or decrease floods by human action.
> > > > > > > The river will find the weakest embankments to crest, and will
> > > > > > > do so.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, what exactly can the state do?
> > > > > > > It can be ready for it every year by taking evasive actions.
> > > > > > > Can be ready with large scale evacuvation plans including
> > > > > > > livestock
> > > > > > > Can identify Highly flood prone areas, and advice settlers of
> > > > > > > the dangers.
> > > > > > > Be prepared with medical facilities
> > > > > > > Rescue operation readiness
> > > > > > > Help farmers get back on their feet with seed/fertilizer
> > > > > > > supplies etc.
> > > > > > > Help farmers acquire flood insurance - the state can mandate
> > > > > > > insurance companies that they must offer reduced rates for farmers. The
> > > > > > > state govt. can help farmers with the bulk of the premiums.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The list can go on.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --Ram
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 7/4/07, kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi RS,
> > > > > > > > My attention was drawn to the following remark,made by Umesh
> > > > > > > > Sarma.He wrote and I quote " after the negative reception he
> > > > > > > > received at Boston conference where he was only questioned about annual
> > > > > > > > flooding "
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In my considered opinion,the problem of flood is the most
> > > > > > > > menacing natural calamity,experienced by the state every year particularly
> > > > > > > > since the great earthquake of 1950.The stagnancy of economy
> > > > > > > > of the state owes much to this recurrent menace.Forexample,in the course of last ten years,the total damage caused by floods to
> > > > > > > > crops,habitation of people and lives of cattle is estimated at over
> > > > > > > > Rs.1000 crores.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The dream of setting up of 111 engineering colleges in Assam
> > > > > > > > is okay ( how many medical colleges will be needed to look after the
> > > > > > > > ailments of these folks,I wonder ?).But then,one must remember that 76% of
> > > > > > > > Assam's population is rural-based,who eke out a living from their poor
> > > > > > > > surroundings and where facilities in the area of power,basic education
> > > > > > > > ,health care benefits,roads/communication/transport etc.are
> > > > > > > > non-existent.Unless these areas are taken care of by the
> > > > > > > > government,economic prosperity is impossible,even if you build thousands of
> > > > > > > > engineering colleges.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > KJD
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 7/4/07, Ram Sarangapani < assamrs at gmail.com > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thank you, Umesh for providing an exhaustive account of
> > > > > > > > > Assam 2007.
> > > > > > > > >  any mecal colleges
> > > > > > > > >  --Ram da
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >  On 7/3/07, umesh sharma < jaipurschool at yahoo.com > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In the Day 2 of the meeting (on Sunday July 1st, 2007)
> > > > > > > > > > we arrived just in time to have the lunch (got value for money - the $110 we
> > > > > > > > > > had paid each for the Assam 2007) - I was able to identify the dish with the
> > > > > > > > > > shrimp (and avoided a painful alergy outbreak ) .
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > At the same time meeting of Assam Society was going on -
> > > > > > > > > > I could make out the sentences in English which were focused on non-profit
> > > > > > > > > > work and fund-raising (of about $2,500 only) and projects been sponsored and
> > > > > > > > > > monitored in Assam.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >  Later Partha-da Gogoi presented a passionate
> > > > > > > > > > presentation for the self-help groups and business initiative and mentoring
> > > > > > > > > > for engineering students etc
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.nepif.weblet.in/   North East Professional
> > > > > > > > > > Institutes Forum
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > under the leadership of Assam Institute of Management
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.aimguwahati.com/ -- which was later shown in
> > > > > > > > > > front of the Chief Minister --
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > alongwith a presentation slideshow of
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.pearllifeline.com/ funded and spearheaded by
> > > > > > > > > > an NRI/NRA http://www.assamtribune.com/may0507/Photo4.html
> > > > > > > > > > who advised US President George Bush on medical stuff.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.posoowa.org/2007/06/30/a-need-for-expanding-engineering-education-facilities-in-assam-for-economic-growth-and-human-development/
> > > > > > > > > > After that was the persuasive presentation for promoting
> > > > > > > > > > engineering college by Jugal-da Kalita based on research by Jugal-da (IIT ,
> > > > > > > > > > Phd UPenn - Ivy League Univ, Prof Computer Science, Colorado) , Umesh-da
> > > > > > > > > > Tabildar (IIT , NASA, USA ), Jukti-da Kalita (IIT, IIM, PhD Columbia) ,
> > > > > > > > > > Mantu-da Bhaishya ( BITS, Pilani ) , Ganesh-a Bora (PhD Kansas - Agriculture
> > > > > > > > > > engineering)  , Durba-da Bhattacharya (Prof Computer science - Tejpur Univ,
> > > > > > > > > > Assam)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- with comments on it by  Gautom Barua (Director IIT-
> > > > > > > > > > Guwahati Computer Science) and other IIT profs and Dipankar-da Medhi (Prof
> > > > > > > > > > Computer Science at Kansas and AssamNet Co-founder)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The Chief Minster was in a state of bliss --- especially
> > > > > > > > > > after the negative reception  he received at Boston conference where he was
> > > > > > > > > > only questioned about the annual flooding of Guwahati (he later spoke of
> > > > > > > > > > Global Warming which might lead initail floods by melting of glaciers
> > > > > > > > > > followed by drought - when no more glaciers). He said that he is so pleased
> > > > > > > > > > with these presentation which have a positive note and aim to improve the
> > > > > > > > > > situation of Assam.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Main Points of the engineering college presentation --
> > > > > > > > > > Orissa has 13,000 employed by Infosys for computer work -- even though has
> > > > > > > > > > much worse travel connection than Assam. Gautam Barua (IIT - G director) was
> > > > > > > > > > told by Infosys Chief (Nilekani is IIT batchmate of Gautam-da ) that Assam
> > > > > > > > > > only produces 750 engg grads compared to 13,000 by Orissa - and Infosys
> > > > > > > > > > wants 80% of its employees to be local -atleast.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Second, Assam has 2.5% of India's population but only
> > > > > > > > > > 0.2% of its engineering colleges and only 0.17% of its
> > > > > > > > > > engineering graduates. I agreed with Jugal-da that engineering education
> > > > > > > > > > might act as a "pull" in improving basic education (at school level) .
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >  Later during lunch Jugal-da, Partha-da and others were
> > > > > > > > > > having lively discussion with the CM. The CM had declared that his govt had
> > > > > > > > > > declared already that the year 2007 was the Year of Education and passed a
> > > > > > > > > > Bill (confirmed by his ADC later to  me) to open privately run engineering
> > > > > > > > > > colleges etc. Jugal-da however, told me that he was not able to lay hands on
> > > > > > > > > > any such Bill being passed by Assam govt - but may have been introduced.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I was within one feet of the CM and  even made eye
> > > > > > > > > > contact but I conceded to the stalwarts waiting to talk to him - who could
> > > > > > > > > > have more immediate impact or synergy.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Partha-da in his very professional approach  showed that
> > > > > > > > > > it was possible to  have business outreach delegations to US  -- since
> > > > > > > > > > backward states like Jharkhand and  Uttranchal have been  making waves in
> > > > > > > > > > US. Utpal-da Brahma  (IIT, IIM  and  National Defense  Academy  selected  )
> > > > > > > > > > was of the opinion that  first  local Indian companies need to  be invited
> > > > > > > > > > to Assam and  based on their  performance MNCs would  get attracted to
> > > > > > > > > > invest  (FDI) in Assam.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > There are more than one way to skin a cat , however!!!!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Jugal-da and Partha-da rightly noted that NRAs have yet
> > > > > > > > > > to get involved with entrepreneurial ventures and thus, professional
> > > > > > > > > > education is the key to economic development of Assam -- a fact whole
> > > > > > > > > > heartedly agreed  to by Assam Chief Minister.
> > > > > > > > > > He did say the Assam's economy was growing at 3% before
> > > > > > > > > > his tenure and now is at 6% and want it to go up to 8-9%  to catch up with
> > > > > > > > > > rest of India - and negated my question (anonymous) that corruption was on
> > > > > > > > > > the rise otherwise how could current growth be possible.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > (My comment - Indian embassy in DC has now opened doors
> > > > > > > > > > for anyone seeking corroption of any other info - under RTI - Right To Info
> > > > > > > > > > Act)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Any comments?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Umesh
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Umesh Sharma
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Washington D.C.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1-202-215-4328 [Cell]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Ed.M. - International Education Policy
> > > > > > > > > > Harvard Graduate School of Education,
> > > > > > > > > > Harvard University,
> > > > > > > > > > Class of 2005
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
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> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Umesh Sharma
> > > >
> > > > Washington D.C.
> > > >
> > > > 1-202-215-4328 [Cell]
> > > >
> > > > Ed.M. - International Education Policy
> > > > Harvard Graduate School of Education,
> > > > Harvard University,
> > > > Class of 2005
> > > >
> > > > http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)
> > > >
> > > > http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Umesh Sharma
> > >
> > > Washington D.C.
> > >
> > > 1-202-215-4328 [Cell]
> > >
> > > Ed.M. - International Education Policy
> > > Harvard Graduate School of Education,
> > > Harvard University,
> > > Class of 2005
> > >
> > > http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)
> > >
> > > http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
> > > ------------------------------
> > > Try Yahoo! Mail<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mailuk/taglines/gmail/see_difference/*http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48525/*http://uk.mail.yahoo.com>now with Unlimited Storage and see the difference.
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Umesh Sharma
> >
> > Washington D.C.
> >
> > 1-202-215-4328 [Cell]
> >
> > Ed.M. - International Education Policy
> > Harvard Graduate School of Education,
> > Harvard University,
> > Class of 2005
> >
> > http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)
> >
> > http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
> >  ------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Mail<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mailuk/taglines/gmail/important_emails/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48525/*http://uk.mail.yahoo.com>now has unlimited storage, which means you can have spam control and more
> > space for those important e-mails.
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
>
>
>
> Umesh Sharma
>
> Washington D.C.
>
> 1-202-215-4328 [Cell]
>
> Ed.M. - International Education Policy
> Harvard Graduate School of Education,
> Harvard University,
> Class of 2005
>
> http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)
>
> http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)
>
>
>
>
> www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )
>
>
>
>
> http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
>
> ------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up
> for your free account today<http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail/winter07.html>.
>
>
>
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