[Assam] Math First: Harvard & UVa study on college science success

Mon Jul 30 04:10:44 PDT 2007

Dear Mridul

  I agree whole heartedly about what you say. Though I am a non-technical person, I understand that you do not always need engineers to run many of the works in a system. ( I thought you were referring to the fact that in India many engineers are reduced to file pushers and forget their subjects. I now understand that you were saying so in another context) I also have been told that in the developed world, the nurses do the main works and the doctors are basically planners and supervisors. Yes, some PSU's are performing well, but there has been a design to undermine those, as if privatisation is the only way of salvation. Even the performers are not allowed to continue.That is why I told that the stress was on their non-performance. In Assam, some of the private sector industries have come up only to take away the subsidies and enjoy other benefits while they are actually wheeling-dealing traders from the rest of India. With the increased automation, engineers are required
 more for supervision, planning, training and creativity than doing day to day chores. Why should I rejoice That part I have not understood. Be that as it may, I have said so, because only time will tell whether the changes are for the good or for the worse.   

Mridul Bhuyan <mridul_mb at yahoo.com> wrote:
    Dear Uttam,

  Thanks for reminding me. However, not so many years back, I had the opportunity to work with GE in US. What my experience told me that many of the high tech jobs, which in India, we can't even dreamt of being perfomed by a non-engineer, have very efficiently been done by non-technical man there in US. As far as PSUs are concerned, they are not exactly doing a bad job even in the current scenario, competing with the private sector (take for example, NTPC, POWERGRID, PFC, BHEL... do not bring in SEBs, state PSUs), provided the modern day heroes like, PChidambaram, Montek S etc. allows them to continue. See the working of some of private sector giants like RIL and you will know, to what extent they rely on Engineers.

  However, as you say things are changing for better or worse and I will not deny you of your rights to rejoice.

  Mridul

  uttam borthakur <uttamborthakur at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
    >>>As far as engineers employed in India, I am not sure if being creative or not makes any difference. Regarding most of the engineering jobs in India, except in a few cases, I am not sure, if Engineers are required at all :)

  India seems to be in a transitional phase. In the prior period, i.e the days of the PSUs etc., what you have stated holds good, because, the stress was on non-performance and to look up for loans, aids and offals etc.,  for whatever reason. The emerging situation involving more geographical division of labour, now demands more performance at comparatively lower prices than ,say, in the west. So, creativity enhancing such performance or lowering of the cost of production, would be welcomed and remunerated. So, Mridul, you can continue with your  happy disposition of earlier days and need not brood, because, as they say, the things are changing.... for the better or for the worse  

Mridul Bhuyan <mridul_mb at yahoo.com> wrote:
    As far as engineers employed in India, I am not sure if being creative or not makes any difference. Regarding most of the engineering jobs in India, except in a few cases, I am not sure, if Engineers are required at all :)

  Mridul Bhuyan

Dilip/Dil Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com> wrote:
    Umesh,
  Not every engineer needs to be creative. However every engineer should be good in math, just to survive in the field. The design engineers need to know what is behind the softwares they use now a days to solve engineering problems.
  There are functions in engineering where a person can contribute without being creative in the real sense of the word. I have spent 30+ years in the field, including management of engineers, I should know something about engineers by now.
  A request to engineers in India - please speak up.
  Dilipda

umesh sharma <jaipurschool at yahoo.com> wrote:
  C-da,

But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at high school levele - not at an engineering college.

***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an ability or have the aptitude to develop it 

Umesh

Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:         At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
  Netters with interest in science will find this article interesting. Math is used in all sciences, so obviously good fundamental knowledge in math helps students in all branches of science. A good grasp of math in high school helps engineering students as well, across the board.  

  *** And that is exactly why it is so essential to have a sound primary education where math fundamentals  take root or die. If you look at the percentage of students in Assam who have a decent knowledge of math fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in science, technology etc.

  But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an ability or have the aptitude to develop it .

  Dilip  ==================================================================

umesh sharma <jaipurschool at yahoo.com> wrote:
  http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/science_07262007.html

Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C.

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)

www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )

http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/    
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Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C. 

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)

www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )

http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/     
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