[Assam] assam Digest, Vol 44, Issue 23 - About the name Assam
Dilip and Dil Deka
dilipdeka at yahoo.com
Tue Mar 17 10:02:07 PDT 2009
Mr. Saleh,
You said, " All I did was to search for available information in publications (in English and other languages) and
compile the information and publish an article to show that the name Assam
was not given by the British. The name existed before the British came to Assam."
Your interest in the subject and the time you spent in the research should be appreciated by all who are somewhat interested in Assam's history. In the above paragraph, you have also made it very clear that your goal was to show that other outsiders (other than the British) also called today's Oxom as Assam or something similar.
I do not believe you wanted to get into the debate over whether the name Assam (or something similar) came first, or Oxom. As we have seen in this debate and elsewhere, it will be very hard to pinpoint when the name Oxom came into being. Dr. Yasmin Saikia in her research concluded that a name for the Ahom kingdom does not appear in the Buranjis remaining today. As we know a large number of Buranjis were burnt under the care of Kirti Charan Barbarua. There may be some hiding in some village in Assam. Who knows?
I personally feel deeper research has to be done into Bodo language and folk-literature to see if the root of the word Oxom can be found.
I asked a question a few days ago - who gave the name Ahom to the Tai group and why did the Tai people so willingly accepted it?
No one has answered it.
Again, thanks for your dedication to things Assamese.
Dilip Deka
________________________________
From: Wahid Saleh(GM) <wahid.saleh at gmail.com>
To: assam at assamnet..org
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:01:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] assam Digest, Vol 44, Issue 23 - About the name Assam
>>I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
>>Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with
>>his newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>>laughter-evoking buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
It was not my intention to confront others. All I did was to search for
available information in publications (in English and other languages) and
compile the information and publish an article to show that the name Assam
was not given by the British. The name existed before the British came to
Assam.
In my search for information on this subject I contacted persons who knew
about Indian, Dutch, English and Portuguese histories, did research and
published papers and books in their respective fields. They were based in
Australia, Bangladesh, Iran, India, the Netherlands, Portugal, Vietnam,
Thailand, UK and USA. Most of them are considered to be authorities in their
respective fields. I also did some research on Marco Polo and Huen Tsang to
find out if they mentioned the name Assam in their travel journals.
During this process I stumbled upon the fact that the person named Glanius
who is mentioned by several well-known historians did not accompany Mir
Jumla and also never visited Assam. I also published an article on the same
subject.
We all have the freedom to accept the mentioned books/publications as
historical documents or reject them totally.
I quoted Prof. Priyam Goswami from a news item published by Times of India
(26-02-06) with the title "Assam to fall off the map, turn Asom" as Mr. Deka
wanted explanations from someone competent authority.
>I remain unconvinced.
>In the fitness of thing,the entire matter ought to be left for those,who
are in the business of reading,analyzing and interpreting the nitty-gritty
>historical facts and data.
>I refuse to accept the interpretation put forward by Saleh/Barua as an
>unshakable truth.
>As far as I am concerned,their explanation is of no consequence,pending
full verification by the competent ones.
>Meanwhile,those self-proclaimed neo-historians should stop the tamasha of
>re-writing and re-interpreting facts in regard to Assam's
>history,who,perhaps,haven't studied the subject seriously save high-school
>history :-)
Mr. Amalendu Guha and Kalika Purna were quoted by Mr. Deka and my reply was
only in reference to the said quotes.
Both Prof Goswami and Mr. Guha wrote within the framework of information
available to them. This does not mean that they are "buffons". They are
contributing their own way to the knowledge of the society. In and outside
their academic circle they are respected academicians. We may agree with
them or reject their arguments without using some adjectives which they
don't deserve.
Wahid Saleh
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: assam-bounces at assamnet.org [mailto:assam-bounces at assamnet.org] Namens
assam-request at assamnet.org
Verzonden: dinsdag 17 maart 2009 7:30
Aan: assam at assamnet.org
Onderwerp: assam Digest, Vol 44, Issue 23
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: About the name Assam (Choudhary, H. N. - AMW - MUM)
2. Of Wearing Suits and their Side-effects - Kalyan
Dutta-Choudhury, The Sentinel (Ram Sarangapani)
3. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
4. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
5. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
6. Re: About the name Assam (Chan Mahanta)
7. Re: About the name Assam (Rajen & Ajanta Barua)
8. Re: About the name Assam (Rajen & Ajanta Barua)
9. Re: About the name Assam (Rajen & Ajanta Barua)
10. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
11. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
12. Fragmented Memories: Struggling to be Tai-Ahom in India - by
Yasmin Saikia (Dilip and Dil Deka)
13. Re: Fragmented Memories: Struggling to be Tai-Ahom in India -
by Yasmin Saikia (Babul Gogoi)
14. Sanskrit and Assamese (Alpana B. Sarangapani)
15. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
16. Web site of the "Adinor Sambad" (Buljit Buragohain)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:59:07 +0530
From: "Choudhary, H. N. - AMW - MUM" <HNChoudhary at amwasia.com>
Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
To: "A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
world" <assam at assamnet.org>
Cc: rc2559 at columbia.edu
Message-ID:
<C277F575BBB7F54B9DB20593FACB611003A415 at amwbkcexch.amwasia.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear All,
Having read the mails and communications on the subject "about the name
of Assam",
I feel that the debate on the subject has become acrimonious and
somewhat personal.
No one can clam fame to become a historian overnight by writing an
article on a historical topic. It is also not appropriate to call them
"neophyte historians" as they may not deserve the accolade.
If I have to give my comments on the following remarks:
"There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
educated intellectuals with different agendas."
-- I will like to reserve my comments.
Please exercise restraint and caution on commenting poorly on the whole
of Assam or Assamese people.
Your geographical location outside Assam (in USA or elsewhere) does not
confer the right to make un-parliamentary
comments on the people in Assam.
These are sensitive issues.
I am a recent addition to the group.
I have served for many years in the Army and now in an Indian corporate.
Having he advantage to experienced the best traditions of our culture
and a mix of British culture,
I could suggest that views and opinions need not "hurt" anyone. Please
show tolerance.
If we follow that in the Friends of Assam, we will remain friends.
I request both parties to cool off.
There is too much heat at the moment.
Regards,
Col Hemen N Choudhary
W Sea Face
Mumbai
-----Original Message-----
From: assam-bounces at assamnet.org [mailto:assam-bounces at assamnet.org] On
Behalf Of Rajen Barua
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 6:51 PM
To: assamnet
Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based
on his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
There are
Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
problem.
Rajen Barua
> Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
> From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
> To: assam at assamnet.org
> Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>
> I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
> Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with
his
> newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
laughter-evoking
> buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
> KJD
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
_______________________________________________
assam mailing list
assam at assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
DISCLAIMER:
Sample Disclaimer added in a VBScript.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:24:16 -0500
From: Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
Subject: [Assam] Of Wearing Suits and their Side-effects - Kalyan
Dutta-Choudhury, The Sentinel
To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
world <assam at assamnet.org>
Message-ID:
<6e564ddf0903161424p5482b16es190baf547c7cd65d at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Netters,
Kalyan da writes well, and I kind of like this piece. Reminds me of Gandhi,
"Imitating the English Gentleman" which we had at high school, where Gandhi
declares
"And Mr. Bell rang the bell of Alarm in my ears, and I awoke" after he felt
guilty asking money from back home for his elocution and music lessons in
London.
"The head tailor there was called masterji. When he was called, he showed up
at the front desk with a measuring tape coolly around his neck and the two
ends of it dangling. He talked sparingly because he knew his business. Any
professional person who talks to his or her clients doesn?t know his or her
profession." - K DC
This is just precious. I remember going for my first job interview at
Guwahati.. Didn't have a suit, so I borrowed a jacket from a friend - similar
shade. But the jacket was a size smaller. So, I used the next best option -
slung the jacket over my shoulders - to look hip, and make it look like it
was my suit.
--Ram
_______________
*Kalyan Dutta-Choudhury
*A television programme showed men?s suits selling for upwards of, get this
incredible story, forty three thousand dollars. No, the suits weren?t made
of gold or titanium or any other precious metal. They were regular woollen
suits but the wool came from some animals grazing in some kind of grass
which grew in cool highlands of South America. The interviewer sported a
high-priced suit of that kind of lineage but he didn?t look any different
than when he was wearing his regular suit of approximately of same colour
and texture. But that?s purely my judgement.
Then, what is the hype about paying forty three thousand dollars for a suit?
That lies in the psychology of buying at one end, and selling at the other
end, of the business enterprise. The buyer may be a craven soul like Barney
Madeoff who made his money by bilking others, but how the seller, in right
conscientiousness, could sell the high-priced suits? They are made of the
same mould. They feed off each other?s depravity.
A relative of ours went to France, of many other places, for a visit to see
how things were different up there. It seemed he made lots of money. Who
doesn?t make money in Assam? Only fools don?t. Looking around in Paris, he
found a tailoring shop which made suits. Asking for the price of a suit, he
was shocked to learn the price of suits ? way too high. With that kind of
money, he quickly calculated using his handy pocket calculator: ??I could
make two pairs of suits with heavier clothing at Mohini?s in Guwahati.??
That?s what he did. The suits were a bit ill-fitting and out of style. But
who cares about good fit and style in the non-suit domain like Guwahati!
It?s the quality of clothing that matters.
In the late 50s and early 60s, there was a veritable mania of wearing suits
to look cool. All kinds of grants and scholarships made that possible. If
you were a student at Assam Engineering College in those heady ?engineering?
days, and you the poor soul didn?t have a nice pair to wear to go to Gauhati
in the evenings, you were so out of style and time.
So where did the students go to get their suits made? Where else but
Mohini?s in Fancy Bazar? The head tailor there was called masterji. When he
was called, he showed up at the front desk with a measuring tape coolly
around his neck and the two ends of it dangling. He talked sparingly because
he knew his business. Any professional person who talks to his or her
clients doesn?t know his or her profession. Did you ever talk with your
doctor? He will shut you up any time you open your mouth to say something
important to him ? something vitally important.
Anyway, the culture of wearing a good pair of suits migrated down to those
aspiring to be future engineers too. Such an aspiring soul came to board in
our DS hostel. In a short time, he discarded his white pajamas, blue shirts
and sandals and began wearing alternating between a light-blue suit and a
dark-brown suit with appropriately matching shoes whenever he went out,
which was often. When you wear a suit, you don?t sit in your room and study
like so many fools! You go out with other suit-wearers. When you?re out with
suit-wearers, you go for a long walk up and down through busy thoroughfares
stopping at stores and buying odd little things showing off what a cool guy
you were. If there were womenfolk in the stores, it was moksha! There were
women. But they had more sense. They won?t tango with them.
One evening, the student?s father showed up at the hostel enquiring about
his son. But the son wasn?t there for hours, perhaps gallivanting in the
city street. After hours passed, I came out of my room and asked the man if
I could take a message for his son. ??No, that won?t be necessary... I?m
financially ruined. I can?t keep up with his demands. Every so often he
would come home and tell his mother he needed money. Lots of them. He needs
to buy suits, shirts and shoes to prepare himself to be an good engineer.
I?m just a railway clerk at Maligaon... How would I know how engineers are
made??? said the haggard man wisping in Bengali.
It was the most pathetic and most depraved story I had the misfortune ever
came to hear. If I had a hidden desire to buy a pair of nice suits, it
instantly vanished for a few years at least. I came to the US wearing a suit
but I discarded that in favour of blue jeans and T-shirts. If I care to
look, the suit might be still there somewhere in the house. But for what
should I do that? I?m a non-suit man heart and soul.
(The writer is settled at Berkeley, California)
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:32:18 -0500
From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
world <assam at assamnet.org>
Message-ID:
<7b43066c0903161532y7515bd76n4b059052c9805229 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Why?He was the one who is complining about their ignorance.
On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>
>
>
> What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
> research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
> without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
> article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based on
> his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>
>
>
> There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
> educated intellectuals with different agendas.
>
>
>
> Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
> problem.
>
>
>
> Rajen Barua
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
> > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
> > To: assam at assamnet.org
> > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
> >
> > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
> > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with his
> > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
> laughter-evoking
> > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
> > KJD
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:40:53 -0500
From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
world <assam at assamnet.org>
Message-ID:
<7b43066c0903161540w77182f79ic7ddde0451584e6b at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Did you read his mail? Very self-explanatory.
On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
> *** Wahid kokaideu does not have to go looking for Priyom Goswami or
> Omolendu Guho for a confrontation. He has presented his findings. If
someone
> has a problem with it, they can very well
> confront him, seek proof or rebut it or whatever.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 3:03 PM -0500 3/15/09, kamal deka wrote:
>
>> I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
>> Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with his
>> newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
laughter-evoking
>> buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>> KJD
>> _______________________________________________
>> assam mailing list
>> assam at assamnet.org
>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:46:33 -0500
From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
world <assam at assamnet.org>
Message-ID:
<7b43066c0903161546pa713174q41f2bc298fc85ccc at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-13
According to historian Satyendra Nath Sarma, [*Sarma, Satyendra Nath (1976)
"Assamese Literature", Harrassowitz, Wiesbaden.*]
While the Shan invaders called themselves Tai, they came to be referred to
as "?s?m", "?sam" and sometimes as "Acam" by the indigenous people of the
country. The modern Assamese word "?hom" by which the Tai people are known
is derived from "?s?m" or "?sam". The epithet applied to the Shan conquerors
was subsequently transferred to the country over which they ruled and thus
the name K?mar?pa was replaced by ?s?m, which ultimately took the
Sanskritized form "Asama", meaning "unequalled, peerless or uneven"
[*Banikanta
Kakati: "Assamese: Its Formation and Development", p2*]
On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Dilip and Dil Deka
<dilipdeka at yahoo.com>wrote:
> The debaters on this subject are looking at only two facets - the Tai-Ahom
> connection and the possible Sanskritization. There is a third one to look
> at. The Bodo-Kacharis have been in Assam longer than anyone else and their
> people are spread all over Assam.
> What did they call the land? Many rivers in Assam still have their Bodo
> names.
> What did they call the Tais who came to Assam in the 13th century?
> Is there "xo" sound in Bodo language?
> It is very possible that some words in Bodo were at the root of "Oxom",
> "Assam", "Asom" or whatever else. Please do not throw away Dr. A. Guha or
> Baden Powell(is that the name?) yet.
>
> I don't know a word of Bodo language. Could someone who knows Bodo comment
> on the above?
> I did go to the website http://www.bodoland.org/language1.htm and found
> some interesting words but not much that would help the debate.
> Dilip Deka
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> To: assamnet <assam at assamnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:21:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>
>
>
> Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>
>
>
> What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
> research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
> without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
> article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based on
> his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>
>
>
> There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
> educated intellectuals with different agendas.
>
>
>
> Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
> problem.
>
>
>
> Rajen Barua
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
> > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
> > To: assam at assamnet.org
> > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
> >
> > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
> > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof..Amalendu Guha with his
> > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
> laughter-evoking
> > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
> > KJD
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:22:57 -0500
From: Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
world <assam at assamnet.org>
Message-ID: <a06240801c5e48f2413b2@[192.168.0.197]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed"
Does S N Sarma refer to any proof or is it a
conjecture? And at what time frame did the name
Asam came to be the defining name of the kingdom?
Will it be reasonable to surmise that it was much
before the British came?
The Sanskritized form is a pure and unadulterated conjecture of modern
times.
At 5:46 PM -0500 3/16/09, kamal deka wrote:
>According to historian Satyendra Nath Sarma, [*Sarma, Satyendra Nath (1976)
>"Assamese Literature", Harrassowitz, Wiesbaden.*]
>
>While the Shan invaders called themselves Tai, they came to be referred to
>as "?s?m", "?sam" and sometimes as "Acam" by the indigenous people of the
>country. The modern Assamese word "?hom" by which the Tai people are known
>is derived from "?s?m" or "?sam". The epithet applied to the Shan
conquerors
>was subsequently transferred to the country over which they ruled and thus
>the name K?mar?pa was replaced by ?s?m, which ultimately took the
>Sanskritized form "Asama", meaning "unequalled,
>peerless or uneven" [*Banikanta
>Kakati: "Assamese: Its Formation and Development", p2*]
>
>
>On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Dilip and Dil
>Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>> The debaters on this subject are looking at only two facets - the
Tai-Ahom
>> connection and the possible Sanskritization. There is a third one to
look
>> at. The Bodo-Kacharis have been in Assam longer than anyone else and
their
>> people are spread all over Assam.
>> What did they call the land? Many rivers in Assam still have their Bodo
>> names.
>> What did they call the Tais who came to Assam in the 13th century?
>> Is there "xo" sound in Bodo language?
>> It is very possible that some words in Bodo were at the root of "Oxom",
>> "Assam", "Asom" or whatever else. Please do not throw away Dr. A. Guha
or
>> Baden Powell(is that the name?) yet.
>>
>> I don't know a word of Bodo language. Could someone who knows Bodo
comment
>> on the above?
>> I did go to the website http://www.bodoland.org/language1.htm and found
>> some interesting words but not much that would help the debate.
>> Dilip Deka
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
>> To: assamnet <assam at assamnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:21:13 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>
>>
>>
>> Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>>
>>
>>
>> What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
>> research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
>> without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
>> article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based
on
>> his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
>> educated intellectuals with different agendas.
>>
>>
>>
>> Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
>> problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rajen Barua
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
>> > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
>> > To: assam at assamnet.org
>> > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>> >
>> > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
>> > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with
his
>> > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>> laughter-evoking
>> > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>> > KJD
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > assam mailing list
>> > assam at assamnet.org
>> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> assam mailing list
>> assam at assamnet.org
>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> assam mailing list
>> assam at assamnet.org
>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>
>_______________________________________________
>assam mailing list
>assam at assamnet.org
>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:54:43 -0500
From: "Rajen & Ajanta Barua" <barua25 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
To: "A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
world" <assam at assamnet.org>
Message-ID: <BLU104-DS7C413BFDCE6E3BC440122AD980 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear Choudhury:
Since you are new to the Assam net, please know that in this net we discuss
and debate all kinds of intelligent intellectual issues.
Please don't take anything personally in assam net. Here we do friendly
intellectual hot debates all the time. Kamal, me, Ramgopal, Dilip, Chandan,
Wahid and many others are friends, and actually many of us live in same city
Houston as friends. But in hot issues we do heated debates and try to thrash
out truths for the sake of the community. We understand that sometime the
truths hurt.
When Kamal wrote us as 'neophyte historians' we do not take it personally.
When I wrote, "There are many ignorant educated people in Assam."
Or " There are again some educated intellectuals with different agendas."
It is same as the statement "There are many educated corrupt people in
Assam".
I am sure that statement would not mean that all the people of Assam are
corrupt by any stretch of imagination. On the other hand if I make this
statement, many will support me.
These do not anyway mean that we are blaming all the people of Assam. Nor
does it mean that people living outside Assam are superior or better. Many
from Assam take part here. We never write thinking the people of Assam as
different from us.
I wrote I wrote in similar vein.
I am sorry if I somehow hurt yours or anybody's feeling. But frankly
speaking that is the flavor and beauty of Assam net.
The net is doing a great service to the Assamese community for many many
years now..
I also want to clarify that this is not Friends of Assam net which is
different. You may be confused for some reason.
Regards
Rajen Barua
From: Choudhary, H. N. - AMW - MUM
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:29 AM
To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world
Cc: rc2559 at columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
Dear All,
Having read the mails and communications on the subject "about the name
of Assam",
I feel that the debate on the subject has become acrimonious and
somewhat personal.
No one can clam fame to become a historian overnight by writing an
article on a historical topic. It is also not appropriate to call them
"neophyte historians" as they may not deserve the accolade.
If I have to give my comments on the following remarks:
"There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
educated intellectuals with different agendas."
-- I will like to reserve my comments.
Please exercise restraint and caution on commenting poorly on the whole
of Assam or Assamese people.
Your geographical location outside Assam (in USA or elsewhere) does not
confer the right to make un-parliamentary
comments on the people in Assam.
These are sensitive issues.
I am a recent addition to the group.
I have served for many years in the Army and now in an Indian corporate.
Having he advantage to experienced the best traditions of our culture
and a mix of British culture,
I could suggest that views and opinions need not "hurt" anyone. Please
show tolerance.
If we follow that in the Friends of Assam, we will remain friends.
I request both parties to cool off.
There is too much heat at the moment.
Regards,
Col Hemen N Choudhary
W Sea Face
Mumbai
-----Original Message-----
From: assam-bounces at assamnet.org [mailto:assam-bounces at assamnet.org] On
Behalf Of Rajen Barua
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 6:51 PM
To: assamnet
Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based
on his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
There are
Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
problem.
Rajen Barua
> Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
> From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
> To: assam at assamnet.org
> Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>
> I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
> Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with
his
> newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
laughter-evoking
> buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
> KJD
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
_______________________________________________
assam mailing list
assam at assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
DISCLAIMER:
Sample Disclaimer added in a VBScript.
_______________________________________________
assam mailing list
assam at assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:04:05 -0500
From: "Rajen & Ajanta Barua" <barua25 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
To: "A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
world" <assam at assamnet.org>
Message-ID: <BLU104-DS25A6D9ADC864C80E6C489AD980 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-13"
That is exactly what I wrote in my article with more elaboration of the word
"Acam". I however don't buy the last statement of Banikanta Kakopty',
"which ultimately took the Sanskritized form "Asama", meaning "unequalled,
peerless or uneven" [*Banikanta Kakati: "Assamese: Its Formation and
Development", p2*]"
Where this Sanskrit came from?
Bottomline, the word ASSAM does not have any vestiges of colonial rule.
The words OXOM and AHOM came from the Assamese word ACAM
I am not writing anything new. People simply need to read history books and
find out the truth.
It is a myth that ASSAM word is derived from OXOM.
Rajen Barua
From: kamal deka
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:46 PM
To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world
Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
According to historian Satyendra Nath Sarma, [*Sarma, Satyendra Nath (1976)
"Assamese Literature", Harrassowitz, Wiesbaden.*]
While the Shan invaders called themselves Tai, they came to be referred to
as "?s?m", "?sam" and sometimes as "Acam" by the indigenous people of the
country. The modern Assamese word "?hom" by which the Tai people are known
is derived from "?s?m" or "?sam". The epithet applied to the Shan conquerors
was subsequently transferred to the country over which they ruled and thus
the name K?mar?pa was replaced by ?s?m, which ultimately took the
Sanskritized form "Asama", meaning "unequalled, peerless or uneven"
[*Banikanta
Kakati: "Assamese: Its Formation and Development", p2*]
On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Dilip and Dil Deka
<dilipdeka at yahoo.com>wrote:
> The debaters on this subject are looking at only two facets - the Tai-Ahom
> connection and the possible Sanskritization. There is a third one to look
> at. The Bodo-Kacharis have been in Assam longer than anyone else and their
> people are spread all over Assam.
> What did they call the land? Many rivers in Assam still have their Bodo
> names.
> What did they call the Tais who came to Assam in the 13th century?
> Is there "xo" sound in Bodo language?
> It is very possible that some words in Bodo were at the root of "Oxom",
> "Assam", "Asom" or whatever else. Please do not throw away Dr. A. Guha or
> Baden Powell(is that the name?) yet.
>
> I don't know a word of Bodo language. Could someone who knows Bodo comment
> on the above?
> I did go to the website http://www.bodoland.org/language1.htm and found
> some interesting words but not much that would help the debate.
> Dilip Deka
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> To: assamnet <assam at assamnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:21:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>
>
>
> Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>
>
>
> What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
> research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
> without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
> article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based on
> his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>
>
>
> There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
> educated intellectuals with different agendas.
>
>
>
> Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
> problem.
>
>
>
> Rajen Barua
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
> > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
> > To: assam at assamnet.org
> > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
> >
> > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
> > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with his
> > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
> laughter-evoking
> > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
> > KJD
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
assam mailing list
assam at assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:37:36 -0500
From: "Rajen & Ajanta Barua" <barua25 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
To: "A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
world" <assam at assamnet.org>
Message-ID: <BLU104-DS2A75BE0FC0A139348BB75AD980 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Bodo is a Tibeto-Burman language. So far I know no Tibeto Burman language
has the XO sound which is an Indo-European sound.
The Bodo might have taken some Assamese words and might now pronounce the XO
sound. This I donot know for sure. The Bodos were in Assam for about 3000
years.
I have a small book, written in Assamese titled "Boro Bhaxa Xikhya" by Mr
Sanokyo Brohmo.
The book does tell how to pronounce the Assamese letters, that is XO as SO
or XO?.
Mr Baden Powel claims that the Bodo has the word "Ha-com" which mean low or
level land. He states, " The name Assam is most probably traceable to the
Boro 'Ha-Com' which mean low or level country. The Boro word for water (di)
has remained in the names of the rivers e.g. Dihong etc". "The Indian
Village Community" by Baden Powel (page 135).
I could not find the any Boro word 'Ha-Com' in the above book. However the
book has the word Ha which mean land. There is also a word 'Com' (that is
Som) which mean time. So we donot get anywhere. Even if we take Baden
Powel's word, it again simply mean that Acam or Asam word is a local
Assamese word and that it is earlier than Oxom. It also mean that Acam/Asam
or Assam is not an anglicised word.
Note, we will have to take the outside historians of Assam with a grain of
salt because the same Baden Powel wrote in the same book the following
statement>
"The local dialect, Assamese, is a comparatively recent modification of
Bengali"
This how much this famous historian knows about Assam and the Assamese.
After reading Gait and many other history books on Assam, I find one
Assamese historian who wrote a really good autentic history of Assam. He is
P.C. Choudhury (The Histroy of the Civilisation of the People of Assam).
Anybody who wants to know about the past history of Assam should read it.
For our cultural past, one should read Dimbeswar Neog.
Rajen Barua
From: Dilip and Dil Deka
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:57 AM
To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world
Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
The debaters on this subject are looking at only two facets - the Tai-Ahom
connection and the possible Sanskritization. There is a third one to look
at. The Bodo-Kacharis have been in Assam longer than anyone else and their
people are spread all over Assam.
What did they call the land? Many rivers in Assam still have their Bodo
names.
What did they call the Tais who came to Assam in the 13th century?
Is there "xo" sound in Bodo language?
It is very possible that some words in Bodo were at the root of "Oxom",
"Assam", "Asom" or whatever else. Please do not throw away Dr. A. Guha or
Baden Powell(is that the name?) yet.
I don't know a word of Bodo language. Could someone who knows Bodo comment
on the above?
I did go to the website http://www.bodoland.org/language1.htm and found some
interesting words but not much that would help the debate.
Dilip Deka
________________________________
From: Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
To: assamnet <assam at assamnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:21:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based on
his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
educated intellectuals with different agendas.
Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
problem.
Rajen Barua
> Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
> From: kjit..deka at gmail.com
> To: assam at assamnet.org
> Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>
> I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
> Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with his
> newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them laughter-evoking
> buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
> KJD
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
_______________________________________________
assam mailing list
assam at assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
_______________________________________________
assam mailing list
assam at assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:31:03 -0500
From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
world <assam at assamnet.org>
Message-ID:
<7b43066c0903162031i3398f79chb4aff0de6b0a7870 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I do agree
On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Rajen & Ajanta Barua
<barua25 at hotmail.com>wrote:
> Dear Choudhury:
> Since you are new to the Assam net, please know that in this net we
discuss
> and debate all kinds of intelligent intellectual issues.
> Please don't take anything personally in assam net. Here we do friendly
> intellectual hot debates all the time. Kamal, me, Ramgopal, Dilip,
Chandan,
> Wahid and many others are friends, and actually many of us live in same
city
> Houston as friends. But in hot issues we do heated debates and try to
thrash
> out truths for the sake of the community. We understand that sometime the
> truths hurt.
>
> When Kamal wrote us as 'neophyte historians' we do not take it personally.
>
> When I wrote, "There are many ignorant educated people in Assam."
> Or " There are again some educated intellectuals with different agendas."
>
> It is same as the statement "There are many educated corrupt people in
> Assam".
> I am sure that statement would not mean that all the people of Assam are
> corrupt by any stretch of imagination. On the other hand if I make this
> statement, many will support me.
> These do not anyway mean that we are blaming all the people of Assam. Nor
> does it mean that people living outside Assam are superior or better. Many
> from Assam take part here. We never write thinking the people of Assam as
> different from us.
> I wrote I wrote in similar vein.
> I am sorry if I somehow hurt yours or anybody's feeling. But frankly
> speaking that is the flavor and beauty of Assam net.
> The net is doing a great service to the Assamese community for many many
> years now.
> I also want to clarify that this is not Friends of Assam net which is
> different. You may be confused for some reason.
> Regards
>
> Rajen Barua
>
>
> From: Choudhary, H. N. - AMW - MUM
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:29 AM
> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world
> Cc: rc2559 at columbia.edu
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>
>
> Dear All,
>
>
>
> Having read the mails and communications on the subject "about the name
> of Assam",
>
> I feel that the debate on the subject has become acrimonious and
> somewhat personal.
>
> No one can clam fame to become a historian overnight by writing an
> article on a historical topic. It is also not appropriate to call them
> "neophyte historians" as they may not deserve the accolade.
>
>
>
> If I have to give my comments on the following remarks:
>
> "There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
> educated intellectuals with different agendas."
>
>
>
> -- I will like to reserve my comments.
>
>
>
> Please exercise restraint and caution on commenting poorly on the whole
> of Assam or Assamese people.
>
> Your geographical location outside Assam (in USA or elsewhere) does not
> confer the right to make un-parliamentary
>
> comments on the people in Assam.
>
> These are sensitive issues.
>
>
>
> I am a recent addition to the group.
>
> I have served for many years in the Army and now in an Indian corporate.
>
>
> Having he advantage to experienced the best traditions of our culture
> and a mix of British culture,
>
> I could suggest that views and opinions need not "hurt" anyone. Please
> show tolerance.
>
> If we follow that in the Friends of Assam, we will remain friends.
>
>
>
> I request both parties to cool off.
>
> There is too much heat at the moment.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Col Hemen N Choudhary
>
> W Sea Face
>
> Mumbai
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: assam-bounces at assamnet.org [mailto:assam-bounces at assamnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Rajen Barua
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: assamnet
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
> research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
> without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
> article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based
> on his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> There are
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
> problem.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Rajen Barua
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
>
> > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
>
> > To: assam at assamnet.org
>
> > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>
> >
>
> > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
>
> > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with
> his
>
> > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
> laughter-evoking
>
> > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>
> > KJD
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > assam mailing list
>
> > assam at assamnet.org
>
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> assam mailing list
>
> assam at assamnet.org
>
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
>
>
> DISCLAIMER:
> Sample Disclaimer added in a VBScript.
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:54:19 -0500
From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
world <assam at assamnet.org>
Message-ID:
<7b43066c0903162054s1cf4f395wc7673fbdc0945fb8 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I have been given to understand that even the British could not pronounce
the XO sound.The names of many tea-gardens in Assam are spelled as HO rather
than XO.There is a tea-garden close to Tinsukia named HUKANPUKHURI instead
of XUKANPUKHURI.A passing remark only.
By the way,have you read the book published by Lawyer's Book Stall recently
which was translated from French into English ? The book is related to
a diary of a French traveller.In that translated book,the name of our
state is written as ASEM.
KJD
On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 8:37 PM, Rajen & Ajanta Barua
<barua25 at hotmail.com>wrote:
> Bodo is a Tibeto-Burman language. So far I know no Tibeto Burman language
> has the XO sound which is an Indo-European sound.
> The Bodo might have taken some Assamese words and might now pronounce the
> XO sound. This I donot know for sure. The Bodos were in Assam for about
3000
> years.
>
> I have a small book, written in Assamese titled "Boro Bhaxa Xikhya" by Mr
> Sanokyo Brohmo.
> The book does tell how to pronounce the Assamese letters, that is XO as SO
> or XO?.
>
> Mr Baden Powel claims that the Bodo has the word "Ha-com" which mean low
or
> level land. He states, " The name Assam is most probably traceable to the
> Boro 'Ha-Com' which mean low or level country. The Boro word for water
(di)
> has remained in the names of the rivers e.g. Dihong etc". "The Indian
> Village Community" by Baden Powel (page 135).
>
> I could not find the any Boro word 'Ha-Com' in the above book. However the
> book has the word Ha which mean land. There is also a word 'Com' (that is
> Som) which mean time. So we donot get anywhere. Even if we take Baden
> Powel's word, it again simply mean that Acam or Asam word is a local
> Assamese word and that it is earlier than Oxom. It also mean that
Acam/Asam
> or Assam is not an anglicised word.
>
> Note, we will have to take the outside historians of Assam with a grain of
> salt because the same Baden Powel wrote in the same book the following
> statement>
> "The local dialect, Assamese, is a comparatively recent modification of
> Bengali"
> This how much this famous historian knows about Assam and the Assamese.
>
> After reading Gait and many other history books on Assam, I find one
> Assamese historian who wrote a really good autentic history of Assam. He
is
> P.C. Choudhury (The Histroy of the Civilisation of the People of Assam).
> Anybody who wants to know about the past history of Assam should read it.
>
> For our cultural past, one should read Dimbeswar Neog.
>
> Rajen Barua
>
> From: Dilip and Dil Deka
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:57 AM
> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>
>
> The debaters on this subject are looking at only two facets - the Tai-Ahom
> connection and the possible Sanskritization. There is a third one to look
> at. The Bodo-Kacharis have been in Assam longer than anyone else and their
> people are spread all over Assam.
> What did they call the land? Many rivers in Assam still have their Bodo
> names.
> What did they call the Tais who came to Assam in the 13th century?
> Is there "xo" sound in Bodo language?
> It is very possible that some words in Bodo were at the root of "Oxom",
> "Assam", "Asom" or whatever else. Please do not throw away Dr. A. Guha or
> Baden Powell(is that the name?) yet.
>
> I don't know a word of Bodo language. Could someone who knows Bodo comment
> on the above?
> I did go to the website http://www.bodoland.org/language1.htm and found
> some interesting words but not much that would help the debate.
> Dilip Deka
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> To: assamnet <assam at assamnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:21:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>
>
>
> Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>
>
>
> What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
> research work.. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
> without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
> article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based on
> his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>
>
>
> There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
> educated intellectuals with different agendas.
>
>
>
> Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
> problem.
>
>
>
> Rajen Barua
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
> > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
> > To: assam at assamnet.org
> > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
> >
> > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
> > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with his
> > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
> laughter-evoking
> > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
> > KJD
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:59:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dilip and Dil Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Assam] Fragmented Memories: Struggling to be Tai-Ahom in
India - by Yasmin Saikia
To: ASSAMNET <assam at assamnet.org>
Message-ID: <802445.61510.qm at web111313.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Click on the link below. You will get some very interesting information.
Above all you will get an idea about Buranjis and the so called Ahom
kingdom.
Yasmin Saikia has done considerable research and put together information
that we all want to know.
This link does not have all the pages of the book but one can buy the whole
book.
Dilip Deka
Fragmented Memories: Struggling to be Tai-Ahom in India - Google Books
Result
by Yasmin Saikia - 2004 - Social Science - 327 pages
In Assam even today people talk about a buranji called Chakarepheti Buranji
(The hooded ... past were removed by such drastic measures as burning
buranjis. ...
books.google..com/books?isbn=0822333732...
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:33:59 +0530
From: Babul Gogoi <bgogoi at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Assam] Fragmented Memories: Struggling to be Tai-Ahom in
India - by Yasmin Saikia
To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
world <assam at assamnet.org>
Message-ID:
<880b6ca80903162103i70f53eb9u428f89e65b928ae1 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
http://books.google.co.in/books?id=p9PkFF3uq_8C
On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Dilip and Dil Deka
<dilipdeka at yahoo.com>wrote:
> Click on the link below. You will get some very interesting information.
> Above all you will get an idea about Buranjis and the so called Ahom
> kingdom.
> Yasmin Saikia has done considerable research and put together information
> that we all want to know.
> This link does not have all the pages of the book but one can buy the
whole
> book.
> Dilip Deka
>
> Fragmented Memories: Struggling to be Tai-Ahom in India - Google Books
> Result
> by Yasmin Saikia - 2004 - Social Science - 327 pages
> In Assam even today people talk about a buranji called Chakarepheti
Buranji
> (The hooded ... past were removed by such drastic measures as burning
> buranjis. ...
> books.google.com/books?isbn=0822333732...
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
--
Other things may change us, but we start and end with the family.
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:16:13 -0500
From: "Alpana B. Sarangapani" <absarangapani at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Assam] Sanskrit and Assamese
To: <assam at assamnet.org>
Message-ID: <BLU127-W4651C1DAD96F1A5A58485DB3980 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Here is a nice write-up on Dr. S. Ahmed, a PhD in Sanskrit from Gauhati
University. He sounds like a knowledgable person when it comes to history,
language, culture and real life, very interesting.
http://www.assamtribune.com/dec2306/at07.html
"Another reason, he cites is Sanskrit could provide students with better
grasp of history as almost all the ancient texts and inscriptions in India
are written in that language. Even to know the Assamese language better, or
learn the roots of many words, Sanskrit is the language of choice, he
claims."
It would be great if scholars like him also come and join Assam Net.
_________________________________________________________________
Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?.
http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX
_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:17:03 -0500
From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
world <assam at assamnet.org>
Message-ID:
<7b43066c0903162117u1cacf170nf5d43b298c13937c at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
> Does S N Sarma refer to any proof or is it a conjecture? And at what time
> frame did the name Asam came to be the defining name of the kingdom? Will
it
> be reasonable to surmise that it was much before the British came?
>
> *Assam and other derivatives *
>
> The earliest mention of "Assam" is found in the Bhagavat of Sankardeva,
> composed in the 15th and 16th centuries. The relevant stanza
[*Srimandbhagavat,
> skandha 2, H Dattabaruah and Co., Nalbari, pp-38*] is (in [*
> http://www.aczoom.com/itrans/#itransencoding iTrans*] )
>
> kiraTa kachhaari khaachi gaaro miri yavana ka~Nka govaala
> asama maluka dhobaa ye turuka kubaacha mlechchha chaNDaala
>
> One of the first unambiguous references comes from Thomas Bowrey in 1663
> about Mir Jumla's death: "They lost the best of Nabobs, the Kingdome of
> Acham, and, by consequence, many large privileges". [*Bowrey, Thomas, "A
> Geographical Account of Countries around Bay of Bengal", ed Temple, R. C.,
> Hakluyt Society's Publications*]
>
KJD
>
>
> The Sanskritized form is a pure and unadulterated conjecture of modern
> times.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 5:46 PM -0500 3/16/09, kamal deka wrote:
>
>> According to historian Satyendra Nath Sarma, [*Sarma, Satyendra Nath
>> (1976)
>> "Assamese Literature", Harrassowitz, Wiesbaden.*]
>>
>> While the Shan invaders called themselves Tai, they came to be referred
to
>> as "?s?m", "?sam" and sometimes as "Acam" by the indigenous people of the
>> country. The modern Assamese word "?hom" by which the Tai people are
known
>> is derived from "?s?m" or "?sam". The epithet applied to the Shan
>> conquerors
>> was subsequently transferred to the country over which they ruled and
thus
>> the name K?mar?pa was replaced by ?s?m, which ultimately took the
>>
>> Sanskritized form "Asama", meaning "unequalled, peerless or uneven"
>> [*Banikanta
>> Kakati: "Assamese: Its Formation and Development", p2*]
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Dilip and Dil Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>> The debaters on this subject are looking at only two facets - the
>>> Tai-Ahom
>>> connection and the possible Sanskritization. There is a third one to
>>> look
>>> at. The Bodo-Kacharis have been in Assam longer than anyone else and
>>> their
>>> people are spread all over Assam.
>>> What did they call the land? Many rivers in Assam still have their Bodo
>>> names.
>>> What did they call the Tais who came to Assam in the 13th century?
>>> Is there "xo" sound in Bodo language?
>>> It is very possible that some words in Bodo were at the root of "Oxom",
>>> "Assam", "Asom" or whatever else. Please do not throw away Dr. A. Guha
>>> or
>>> Baden Powell(is that the name?) yet.
>>>
>>> I don't know a word of Bodo language. Could someone who knows Bodo
>>> comment
>>> on the above?
>>> I did go to the website http://www.bodoland.org/language1.htm and found
>>> some interesting words but not much that would help the debate.
>>> Dilip Deka
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
>>> To: assamnet <assam at assamnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:21:13 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
>>> research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
>>> without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
>>> article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based
>>> on
>>> his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
>>> educated intellectuals with different agendas.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
>>> problem.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rajen Barua
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
>>> > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
>>> > To: assam at assamnet.org
>>> > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>> >
>>> > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
>>> > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with
>>> his
>>> > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>>> laughter-evoking
>>> > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>>> > KJD
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > assam mailing list
>>> > assam at assamnet.org
>>> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> assam mailing list
>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> assam mailing list
>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> assam mailing list
>> assam at assamnet.org
>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:12:30 +0530 (IST)
From: Buljit Buragohain <buluassam at yahoo.co.in>
Subject: [Assam] Web site of the "Adinor Sambad"
To: assam at assamnet.org
Message-ID: <610946.61560.qm at web8608.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
?
Web site of the "Adinor Sambad"
http://www.adinorsambad.com/epaper.php
Get rid of Add-Ons in your email ID. Get yourname at rocketmail.com. Sign
up now! http://in.promos.yahoo.com/address
------------------------------
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