[Assam] force is effective only as a preventative

Fri Jun 4 10:01:26 PDT 2010

Sushanta,

While you are certainly entitled to your views, just to put things in
context, and without hyperbole:

The Jewish State was created by the Brits as a fallout of Nazi Germany's
attrocities in the German concentartion camps, and the fact that the UK did
not want Jews coming in droves into the UK, and add to that the Jews believe
(just like the Arabs believe) that Abraham (from the Old Testament) bestowed
the region to the Jews.

The history is murky at best to definitely claim that the region belongs to
the Jews or the Arabs. All we can go on is recent history. If you want to
start blaming one group or another, you will be doing so for a long time.
Both Arabs and Jews must find a way to live in peace.

We know this much that many don't want Israel to exist at all. Well, that is
only a pipe dream. Israel will exist, just like India will exist, and the
US/UK will exist inspite of many who harbor ill-will toward these countries.
They will exist inspite of people taking full advantage of the benefits of
language, culture, opportunities, education, advancement etc offered by
these countries, and in return hate them and wish to do them harm.
Unfortunately, that is the nature of the world.

--Ram da

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Sushanta Kar <pragyan.tsc50 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Dear
> Ramda,
>  I've tried to understand the points of the article. but failed because of
> my inability to understand the language well.
> All I understood is the writer has a deep sympathy with the Zionist state.
> Which I don't have. To my understanding it is not a legitimate state.
> Had there been a  state for Jews  being achieved after a prolong freedom
> struggle  in Palestine like Bangladesh I would have no problem. . Or I will
> have no problem with Swadhin Axom if ULFA achieve it. Because all the
> residence of that state would be the Khilonjiya of that newly created
> state.
>
> But that was not the case with the Jews.How it would have been if all the
> Bauddhist  of the world  irrespective of their languages and races were
> being invited to come  India and  create an independent state in India and
> make all the Indian second grade citizen  only because the religion
> originated here. That too under the gun of imperialist British, who ruled
> the country for more than two century. Israil is such a country. Jew,
> irrespective of their languages and culture, came from whole world to
> create
> Israel out of Palestine.
>  Israel is just like a police out post of US & British  imperialist in the
> Oil rich middle east. A living Human Bomb  created by their imperialist
> masters.
> If the world have to be free from their hegemony end exploitation  ( sidha
> kothat koboloi gole Tel Curir Aru Ostror Bojaror pora mukti paboloi gole )
> Israel will have to go in present form.   And it will go. The freedom
> loving
> world will never let Israel to leave in peace. Or It would be better to
> say,
> Israel will not let the freedom and peace loving world to leave with peace
> till it exist!
> Thats what My understanding. I know you will not agree!
> Sushanta
>
>
>
> On 4 June 2010 19:48, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >the flotilla was not about humanitarian relief but about breaking the
> > >blockade,
> >
> >
> >
> > *** so it is just to starve off the Palestians? Awesome argument, ain't
> it?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jun 4, 2010, at 9:10 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
> >
> >  Dear Sushanta,
> >>
> >> As an extension to our discussions, here is a column from the Washington
> >> Post. While I don't particularly agree with what Krauthammer writes, in
> >> this
> >> particular case, he seems to get it right.
> >>
> >> Just because it is the US, the UK or Israel or the GOI or GOA, they are
> >> not
> >> the root cause of all worldly problems and issues, and those against
> them
> >> are always the victims.
> >> **
> >> *****Why was the offer refused? Because, as organizer Greta Berlin
> >> admitted,
> >> the flotilla was not about humanitarian relief but about breaking the
> >> blockade, i.e., ending Israel's inspection regime, which would mean
> >> unlimited shipping into Gaza and thus the unlimited arming of Hamas. *
> >>
> >> *Israel has already **twice intercepted ships
> >> laden*<
> >>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A16637-2002Jan8?language=printer
> >> >
> >> * with Iranian arms destined for Hezbollah and Gaza. What country would
> >> allow that?********** (from the article)*
> >>
> >> Now, what country interested in their safety and well-being turn a blind
> >> eye. Now, Hamas/Turkey is planning to send another "humanitarian" ship.
> >> Why?
> >> To test Israel?
> >>
> >> The article is below.
> >>
> >> --Ram da
> >> **
> >> *Those troublesome Jews
> >> *
> >>
> >> Charles Krauthammer
> >> Friday, June 4, 2010; A19
> >>
> >> The world is outraged at Israel's blockade of Gaza. Turkey denounces its
> >> illegality<
> >>
> http://www.mfa.gov.tr/address-by-h_e_-ahmet-davutoglu_-minister-of-foreign-affairs-of-republic-of-turkey-at-the-united-nations_-31-may-2010_-new-york.en.mfa
> >> >,
> >> inhumanity, barbarity, etc. The usual U.N. suspects, Third World and
> >> European, join in. The Obama administration dithers.
> >>
> >> But as Leslie Gelb<
> >>
> http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-05-31/israel-was-right-to-board-the-gaza-flotilla/
> >> >,
> >> former president of the Council on Foreign Relations, writes, the
> blockade
> >> is not just perfectly rational, it is perfectly legal. Gaza under Hamas
> is
> >> a
> >> self-declared enemy of Israel -- a declaration backed up by more than
> >> 4,000
> >> rockets fired at Israeli civilian territory. Yet having pledged itself
> to
> >> unceasing belligerency, Hamas claims victimhood when Israel imposes a
> >> blockade to prevent Hamas from arming itself with still more rockets.
> >>
> >> In World War II, with full international legality, the United States
> >> blockaded Germany and Japan. And during the October 1962 missile crisis,
> >> we
> >> blockaded ("quarantined") Cuba. Arms-bearing Russian ships headed to
> Cuba
> >> turned back because the Soviets knew that the U.S. Navy would either
> board
> >> them or sink them. Yet Israel is accused of international criminality
> for
> >> doing precisely what John Kennedy did: impose a naval blockade to
> prevent
> >> a
> >> hostile state from acquiring lethal weaponry.
> >>
> >> Oh, but weren't the Gaza-bound ships on a mission of humanitarian
> relief?
> >> No. Otherwise they would have accepted Israel's offer to bring their
> >> supplies to an Israeli
> >> port<
> >>
> http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-gaza-aid-convoy-can-unload-cargo-in-ashdod-for-inspection-1.292560
> >> >,
> >> be inspected for military materiel and have the rest trucked by Israel
> >> into
> >> Gaza -- as every week 10,000 tons of food, medicine and other
> humanitarian
> >> supplies are sent by Israel to Gaza.
> >>
> >> Why was the offer refused? Because, as organizer Greta Berlin admitted,
> >> the
> >> flotilla was not about humanitarian relief but about breaking the
> >> blockade,
> >> i.e., ending Israel's inspection regime, which would mean unlimited
> >> shipping
> >> into Gaza and thus the unlimited arming of Hamas.
> >>
> >> Israel has already twice intercepted ships
> >> laden<
> >>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A16637-2002Jan8?language=printer
> >> >with
> >> Iranian arms destined for Hezbollah and Gaza. What country would allow
> >> that?
> >>
> >> But even more important, why did Israel even have to resort to blockade?
> >> Because, blockade is Israel's fallback as the world systematically
> >> de-legitimizes its traditional ways of defending itself -- forward and
> >> active defense.
> >>
> >> (1) *Forward defense*: As a small, densely populated country surrounded
> by
> >> hostile states, Israel had, for its first half-century, adopted forward
> >> defense -- fighting wars on enemy territory (such as the Sinai and Golan
> >> Heights) rather than its own.
> >>
> >> Where possible (Sinai, for example) Israel has traded territory for
> peace.
> >> But where peace offers were refused, Israel retained the territory as a
> >> protective buffer zone. Thus Israel retained a small strip of southern
> >> Lebanon to protect the villages of northern Israel. And it took many
> >> losses
> >> in Gaza, rather than expose Israeli border towns to Palestinian terror
> >> attacks. It is for the same reason America wages a grinding war in
> >> Afghanistan: You fight them there, so you don't have to fight them here.
> >>
> >> But under overwhelming outside pressure, Israel gave it up. The Israelis
> >> were told the occupations were not just illegal but at the root of the
> >> anti-Israel insurgencies -- and therefore withdrawal, by removing the
> >> cause,
> >> would bring peace.
> >>
> >> Land for peace. Remember? Well, during the past decade, Israel gave the
> >> land
> >> -- evacuating South Lebanon in 2000 and Gaza in 2005. What did it get?
> An
> >> intensification of belligerency, heavy militarization of the enemy side,
> >> multiple kidnappings, cross-border attacks and, from Gaza, years of
> >> unrelenting rocket attack.
> >>
> >> (2) *Active defense*: Israel then had to switch to active defense --
> >> military action to disrupt, dismantle and
> >> defeat<
> >>
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-President-on-a-New-Strategy-for-Afghanistan-and-Pakistan/
> >> >(to
> >> borrow President Obama's description of our campaign against the
> >> Taliban
> >> and al-Qaeda) the newly armed terrorist mini-states established in
> >> southern
> >> Lebanon and Gaza after Israel withdrew.
> >>
> >> The result? The Lebanon war of 2006 and Gaza operation of 2008-09. They
> >> were
> >> met with yet another avalanche of opprobrium and calumny by the same
> >> international community that had demanded the land-for-peace Israeli
> >> withdrawals in the first place. Worse, the U.N. Goldstone
> >> report<
> >>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/14/AR2009111402279.html
> >> >,
> >> which essentially criminalized Israel's defensive operation in Gaza
> while
> >> whitewashing the *casus belli* -- the *preceding* and unprovoked Hamas
> >> rocket war -- effectively de-legitimized any active Israeli defense
> >> against
> >> its self-declared terror enemies.
> >>
> >> (3) *Passive defense*: Without forward or active defense, Israel is left
> >> with but the most passive and benign of all defenses -- a blockade to
> >> simply
> >> prevent enemy rearmament. Yet, as we speak, this too is headed for
> >> international de-legitimation. Even the United States is now moving
> toward
> >> having it abolished.
> >>
> >> But, if none of these is permissible, what's left?
> >>
> >> Ah, but that's the point. It's the point understood by the
> >> blockade-busting
> >> flotilla of useful idiots and terror sympathizers, by the Turkish front
> >> organization that funded it, by the automatic anti-Israel Third World
> >> chorus
> >> at the United Nations, and by the supine Europeans who've had quite
> enough
> >> of the Jewish problem.
> >>
> >> What's left? Nothing. The whole point of this relentless international
> >> campaign is to deprive Israel of *any* legitimate form of self-defense.
> >> Why,
> >> just last week, the Obama administration joined the jackals, and
> reversed
> >> four decades of U.S. practice, by signing onto a consensus
> >> document<
> >>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/29/AR2010052902304.html
> >> >that
> >> singles out Israel's possession of nuclear weapons -- thus
> >> de-legitimizing Israel's very last line of defense: deterrence.
> >>
> >> The world is tired of these troublesome Jews, 6 million -- that number
> >> again
> >> -- hard by the Mediterranean, refusing every invitation to national
> >> suicide.
> >> For which they are relentlessly demonized, ghettoized and constrained
> from
> >> defending themselves, even as the more committed anti-Zionists --
> Iranian
> >> in
> >> particular -- openly prepare a more final solution.
> >>
> >> letters@ charleskrauthammer.com <letters@%20charleskrauthammer.com>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 5:55 AM, Sushanta Kar <pragyan.tsc50 at gmail.com
> >> >wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>  Well said and good suggestion Utamda! I could have avoid the word
> >>> 'bloody'
> >>> .
> >>> No comments anymore for now.
> >>>
> >>> Sushanta
> >>>
> >>> On 3 June 2010 12:17, uttam borthakur <uttamborthakur at yahoo.co.in>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  Dear Sushanta,
> >>>>
> >>>> The analogy between the "Emperor" and the "Pirate" applies here. The
> >>>> "Emperor" (Alexander) molested the world, but had retained the right
> to
> >>>> punish the "Pirate", who had molested a few ships. The reason for this
> >>>>
> >>> view
> >>>
> >>>> is obvious; there would be no end to this debate, as the debate has
> not
> >>>>
> >>> been
> >>>
> >>>> resolved even by 'war', the extreme method of seeking a resolution.
> >>>>
> >>>> But at the same time, use of less adjectives, and more of reasons,
> would
> >>>> augur well for an argument. The use of the word 'concrete' by a German
> >>>>
> >>> lady
> >>>
> >>>> (who was a communist, but Gestapo could not ascertain her leanings
> >>>>
> >>> through
> >>>
> >>>> severe interrogation) at the fag end of an inqusition gave her away
> >>>>
> >>> (Refer
> >>>
> >>>> to: The God that Failed) . So, it would be better to stick to admitted
> >>>>
> >>> facts
> >>>
> >>>> (even what is fact for you may not be fact for another) beyond
> reproach
> >>>> would make your case stronger, and even your detractors would keep a
> >>>>
> >>> guarded
> >>>
> >>>> silence or stay away from entering a debate or try to evade the moot
> >>>>
> >>> issues,
> >>>
> >>>> unless they have a vested interest in scoring over you. :-)
> >>>>
> >>>> Just tell me why should you call the British 'bloody'; the empire
> could
> >>>>
> >>> not
> >>>
> >>>> do otherwise than to set up an empire, because the growth of
> mercantile
> >>>> activities  had to find a market world-wide; just like the present US,
> >>>>
> >>> which
> >>>
> >>>> cannot do without looting the scarce fossil fuel of the middle-east.
> If
> >>>>
> >>> they
> >>>
> >>>> rely only on their own resources, the domestic prices would soar,
> >>>> transportation costs will increase, all bills would go high, and the
> >>>>
> >>> halcyon
> >>>
> >>>> days now reigning in the US may end up in a dated 'concept' of 'armed
> >>>> rebellion' ( the citizens have more liberty to carry weapons than in
> our
> >>>> place) for which they have already put in place the Homeland Security
> >>>>
> >>> 'idea'
> >>>
> >>>> instead of 'concept'!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Uttam Kumar Borthakur
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> assam mailing list
> >>>> assam at assamnet.org
> >>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Sushnta Kar
> >>> সুশান্ত কর
> >>> তিনসুকিয়া, আসাম
> >>>
> >>> আমার ব্লগগুলি:
> >>> http://sushantakar40.blogspot.com
> >>> http://ishankonerkahini.blogspot.com
> >>> http://ishankonerkotha.blogspot.com
> >>> আমার সম্পাদিত 'প্রজ্ঞান'
> >>> http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com
> >>> http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now
> >>>
> >>> "স্বাজাত্যের অহমিকার থেকে মুক্তি দানের শিক্ষাই, আজকের দিনের প্রধান
> >>> শিক্ষা"
> >>> রবীন্দ্রনাথ
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> assam mailing list
> >>> assam at assamnet.org
> >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >>>
> >>>  _______________________________________________
> >> assam mailing list
> >> assam at assamnet.org
> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
>  Sushnta Kar
> সুশান্ত কর
> তিনসুকিয়া, আসাম
>
> আমার ব্লগগুলি:
> http://sushantakar40.blogspot.com
> http://ishankonerkahini.blogspot.com
> http://ishankonerkotha.blogspot.com
> আমার সম্পাদিত 'প্রজ্ঞান'
> http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com
> http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now
>
> "স্বাজাত্যের অহমিকার থেকে মুক্তি দানের শিক্ষাই, আজকের দিনের প্রধান শিক্ষা"
> রবীন্দ্রনাথ
> _______________________________________________
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> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>