[Assam] European Union and South Asian Federation

kamal deka kjit.deka at gmail.com
Sat Jun 12 16:55:15 PDT 2010 

>>>There is no contradiction here. Not even by a long shot, obscure American idioms or not.<<<

 Once you stop believing in shooting first and asking questions
later,every obscurity will be clear and comprehensible.

>>> But will it be a bad idea to TRY and make it happen?<<<

I don't believe in building castles in the mirage.


>>>to gain from it, that its B'deshi migration problem might  get alleviated.
 And what does India lose? Assam? B'deshi cheap labor? Or the
 lungi menace?
 I am stumped ! Any help in sorting it out :-)?<<<

I am equally stumped not by the brilliance of the argument but rather
lack of it.When Assam's very existence will be on the verge of
extinction,the question of illegal migration will remain out of the
equation.


>>>Should Assam become independent, it will be natural for Assam
 to be
a part of such a federation too.<<<

Why break away in the first place --only to join later? I just don't
get this sort of hogwash:-)

KJD


On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 5:06 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at gmail.com> wrote:
>>but I
>>
>> can say with certainty that this particular idiom is apt in connection
>> with the discussion.
>
>
> **** OK, since it is not about semantics, I  accept your verdict.
> Having done that, let us now examine  the two competing sides,
> the conflict from which some of us might have something to gain.
>
> Should India, Pakistan, B'desh, SriLanka, Bhutan and Nepal
> get together in some sort of a federation, as I might be screaming
> for them to do, what do *I* gain from that? Oh, yes Assam does have
> something
>  to gain from it, that its B'deshi migration problem might  get alleviated.
> And what does India lose? Assam? B'deshi cheap labor? Or the
> lungi menace?
>
> I am stumped ! Any help in sorting it out :-)?
>
>
>>I explained before the difference between ideal
>>
>> world and a real world.
>
> **** Surely I can appreciate that. The real world of India Pakistan
> and B'desh reels from the centuries old Hindu-Muslim conflicts.
> Thus for the three to set aside their blood feuds may take a lot of doing.
> And it may NOT  happen.
>
>
> But will it be a bad idea to TRY and make it happen?
>
>
> By getting together I don't mean or imply that they merge or attempt to
> merge
> into one country, re-unify. They should NOT.  It will be a bad idea.  They
> can remain separate
> countries , but yet work together in many areas for mutual benefit, while
> bringing
> the ancient conflicts to an end.
>
> Ram alluded to the ancient hatreds that will prevent it from happening, as
> you do.
> My point is that these hatreds are not something imprinted on the genes,
> like perhaps
> a caste might be :-).  And thus they can be reduced, if not eradicated.
>  Surely it
> will take leadership and farsightedness to affect it. It is a man made
> condition and
> thus man can rise to undo it, should they wish to.
>
> **** Now about  the purported dichotomy of my position espousing Assam
> sovereignty:
> There is none! Should Assam become independent, it will be natural for Assam
> to be
> a part of such a federation too.
>
> **** It is not like I am advocating a secession of Assam on the one hand,
> and on the other
> advocating a re-union of India, B'desh Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Nepal.  Just
> like it is a good
> idea for Pakistan, B'Desh, Nepal etc. to remain the masters of their own
> destiny, so it is
> for Assam.
>
> There is no contradiction here. Not even by a long shot, obscure American
> idioms or not.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 12, 2010, at 1:38 PM, kamal deka wrote:
>
>>>>> Obviously it is a case of a misapplied idiom<<<
>>
>> Yes,I may not have a good command over English idiom as you do, but I
>> can say with certainty that this particular idiom is apt in connection
>> with the discussion.I will never stand corrected.
>> On one end of the spectrum,you are screaming on the idea that these
>> countries should join together to form a federation while on the
>> opposite end,you support the ULFA's cause of India's disintegration.
>> This is what I call,once again,work both sides of the street.What is
>> good or bad in this? I explained before the difference between ideal
>> world and a real world.Why should anyone pursue a fool's errand?
>> KJD
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Jun 11, 2010, at 5:36 PM, kamal deka wrote:
>>>
>>>> Again,it reminds me of a proverbial saying that goes---playing both
>>>> sides from the middle
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *** You mean "playing both sides, AGAINST ( not from) the middle, right
>>> :-)?
>>>
>>> But HOW does that apply in this situation? The idiom means:  "---to try
>>> to
>>> make two
>>> people or groups compete with each other in order to get an advantage for
>>> oneself"
>>>
>>> *** Who are the two competing sides here, whom this bad person, the
>>> messenger,
>>> is attempting to play against each other, to reap the benefits for
>>> himself
>>>  therefrom?
>>>
>>> Obviously it is a case of a misapplied idiom. But so be it. I won't dwell
>>> on
>>> it.
>>>
>>> But returning to the subject at hand, let us analyze what is involved. It
>>> has two
>>> parts:
>>>
>>>       A:  Is the proposition GOOD, or beneficial, or has the potential to
>>> ameliorate,
>>>       if not eradicate the problem, namely uncontrolled migration?
>>>
>>>       B: If it is  good, then we will look into how to achieve it. If, on
>>> the other hand,
>>>       it is not a good idea, then we must examine WHY it is not a good
>>> idea.
>>>
>>> We can't just demonize the proposition, because we do not trust the
>>> messenger or have
>>> doubts about his motives. It is OK to doubt the motives, but since it is
>>> NOT
>>> about him,
>>> we, as thinking people have to revert back to the fundamentals of the
>>> proposition, its
>>> possible benefits or its absence.
>>>
>>>
>>> *** IF you think the proposition is an undesirable one, pray tell us why.
>>>  It could be bad.
>>> But  you will have to tell us why it is bad or undesirable. The least you
>>> could do.
>>>
>>> *** IF it is NOT bad, then we go on to examine how to achieve it.  Nobody
>>> is
>>> suggesting it
>>> is a piece of cake. Obviously  it will be an uphill battle. But there
>>> would
>>> be ways if there is the will.
>>> That is the critical point.
>>>
>>> *** To denounce or demonize the proposition, just because one does not
>>> like
>>> the proposer
>>> or has doubts about his motives, is not the reaction of a thoughtful
>>> person.
>>> It makes the critic look
>>> like someone who does not really want to see a solution. Doesn't it?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 10:10 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, let us see if we can DE-Mystify this:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Allow me to agree that the mystifier here is a bad person, an ULFA-Pal
>>>>> in
>>>>> the image of say, a terrorist
>>>>> pal like Obama as the great American intellectual Sarah Palin might
>>>>> say.
>>>>> But
>>>>> he is just a messenger.  Is the
>>>>> message he is carrying, sullied by his personal failings?
>>>>>
>>>>> Or is the message a bad one? An undesirable one?
>>>>>
>>>>> IF, the message is bad, why so? Is it because it will harm India?
>>>>>
>>>>> And if it is NOT a bad message, that it would not only be in (India's
>>>>> interest, but also its neighbors, then
>>>>> why tar-and-feather the message, pooh-pooh it, because of the
>>>>> messenger's
>>>>> personal failures?
>>>>>
>>>>> Would a thinking person, able or willing to reason, do that?  Cut
>>>>> his/her
>>>>> own nose to spite the face?
>>>>>
>>>>> That IS the question here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Will we be blessed with an explanation?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 10, 2010, at 8:04 PM, kamal deka wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That's exactly how an ULFA's pal engages himself in an exercise called
>>>>>> MYSTIFICATION!!
>>>>>> Somebody,please let me know if there is a superior double talker than
>>>>>> this.
>>>>>> KJD
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Alpana B. Sarangapani
>>>>>> <absarangapani at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Isn't that something? Some are visioning of one big united world and
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> are trying to  divide one little (or big) country that they live in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Sushanta Kar <pragyan.tsc50 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 17:56:30
>>>>>>> To: <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>>>>> Subject: [Assam] European Union and South Asian Federation
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is the Dream, most of the people is visioning these days. People
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>  this region will sure go for it!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  I support your proposal Dilipda!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Sushanta
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>>>  From: Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>  Date: 10 June 2010 23:22
>>>>>>>  Subject: Re: [Assam] European Union and South Asian Federation
>>>>>>>  To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>>>>> world
>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>  assam at assamnet.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Precisely!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  On Jun 10, 2010, at 12:48 PM, Dilip and Dil Deka wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  I am sure most netters have read european history and know how
>>>>>>> viciously
>>>>>>>  > the european tribes (and subsequently nations) fought for
>>>>>>> centuries.
>>>>>>> World
>>>>>>>  > wars I and II were fought in Europe. If those people can form an
>>>>>>> economic
>>>>>>>  > and political union for the sake of survival, what is wrong in
>>>>>>> expecting
>>>>>>>  > India, Pakistan and Bangladesh (also Sri Lanka, Nepal and Bhutan
>>>>>>> possibly)
>>>>>>>  > to form a federation?
>>>>>>>  > There are 27 members in the EU and it is growing.
>>>>>>>  > Dilip
>>>>>>>  > ===========================================================
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Member states
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > The continental territories of the member states of the European
>>>>>>> Union
>>>>>>>  > (European Communities pre-1993), animated in order of accession.
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Albania
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Austria
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Belarus
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Belgium
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Bos.
>>>>>>>  > & Herz.
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Bulgaria
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Croatia
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Cyprus
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Czech
>>>>>>>  > Rep.
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Denmark
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Estonia
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Finland
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > France
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Germany
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Greece
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Hungary
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Iceland
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Ireland
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Italy
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Latvia
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Lithuania
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Luxembourg
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Mac.
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Malta?
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Moldova
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Mont.
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Netherlands
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Norway
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Poland
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Portugal
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Romania
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Russia
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Serbia
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Slovakia
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Slovenia
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Spain
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Sweden
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >  Switz-
>>>>>>>  > erland
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Turkey
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Ukraine
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > United
>>>>>>>  > Kingdom
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > European Union is composed of 27 sovereign Member States: Austria,
>>>>>>> Belgium,
>>>>>>>  > Bulgaria, Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland,
>>>>>>> France,
>>>>>>>  > Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania,
>>>>>>> Luxembourg,
>>>>>>>  > Malta, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovak
>>>>>>> Republic,
>>>>>>>  > Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and the United Kingdom.[30]
>>>>>>>  > The Union's membership has grown from the original six founding
>>>>>>>  > states-Belgium, France, (then-West) Germany, Italy, Luxembourg and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>  > Netherlands-to the present day 27 by successive enlargements as
>>>>>>> countries
>>>>>>>  > acceded to the treaties and by doing so, pooled their sovereignty
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>  > exchange for representation in the institutions.[31]
>>>>>>>  > To join the EU a country must meet the Copenhagen criteria,
>>>>>>> defined
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>  > 1993 Copenhagen European Council. These require a stable democracy
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>  > respects human rights and the rule of law; a functioning market
>>>>>>> economy
>>>>>>>  > capable of competition within the EU; and the acceptance of the
>>>>>>> obligations
>>>>>>>  > of membership, including EU law. Evaluation of a country's
>>>>>>> fulfilment
>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>  > criteria is the responsibility of the European Council.[32]
>>>>>>>  > No member state has ever left the Union, although Greenland (an
>>>>>>> autonomous
>>>>>>>  > province of Denmark) withdrew in 1985. The Lisbon Treaty now
>>>>>>> provides
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>  > clause dealing with how a member leaves the EU.
>>>>>>>  > There are three official candidate countries, Croatia, Macedonia
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>  > Turkey. Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Serbia and
>>>>>>> Iceland are
>>>>>>>  > officially recognised as potential candidates.[33] Kosovo is also
>>>>>>> listed as
>>>>>>>  > a potential candidate but the European Commission does not list it
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>  > independent country because not all member states recognise it as
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>  > independent country separate from Serbia.[34]
>>>>>>>  > Four Western European countries that have chosen not to join the
>>>>>>> EU
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>  > partly committed to the EU's economy and regulations: Iceland,
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> has now
>>>>>>>  > applied for membership, Liechtenstein and Norway, which are a part
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>  > single market through the European Economic Area, and Switzerland,
>>>>>>> which has
>>>>>>>  > similar ties through bilateral treaties.[35][36] The relationships
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>  > European microstates, Andorra, Monaco, San Marino and the Vatican
>>>>>>> include
>>>>>>>  > the use of the euro and other areas of co-operation.[37]
>>>>>>>  >_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>  > assam mailing list
>>>>>>>  > assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>>>  > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>  assam mailing list
>>>>>>>  assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>>>  http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  --
>>>>>>>  Sushnta Kar
>>>>>>>  ??????? ??
>>>>>>>  ??????????, ????
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  ???? ????????:
>>>>>>>  http://sushantakar40.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>  http://ishankonerkahini.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>  http://ishankonerkotha.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>  ???? ???????? '????????'
>>>>>>>  http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>  http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  "??????????? ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ???????, ????? ????? ??????
>>>>>>> ??????"
>>>>>>>  ???????????
>>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>  assam mailing list
>>>>>>>  assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>>>  http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> assam mailing list
>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> assam mailing list
>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> assam mailing list
>>>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> assam mailing list
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>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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