[Assam] poem and news : The true story about encounters with Maoist in West Bengal

Fri Jun 25 20:20:46 PDT 2010

>>>Bot  Ram and Kamal have mouthed off about democracy and communism, without having a clue about what they are:<<<

You all have caught me flat-footed.Having said so,please educate me if
there any difference between a communist government and a democratic
government? I will be obliged.
KJD

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at gmail.com> wrote:
> Excellent point.
>
> Bot  Ram and Kamal have mouthed off about democracy and communism, without
> having a clue about what they are:
>
>        :Democracy a political system in which the supreme power lies in a
> body of citizens who can elect people to represent them
>        :Communism is a social structure in which, theoretically, classes are
> abolished and property is commonly controlled, as well
>                as a political philosophy and social movement that advocates
> and aims to create such a society.
>
> The above are some of the MANY definitions of the two. There are other
> definitions, but for all practical purposes, they are in the same track.
>
> Therefore the two are NOT mutually EXCLUSIVE. Communism can co-exist WITH
> democracy. A communist system of governance CAN
> ELECT their representatives in government democratically. The fundamental
> difference between a communisitic system and a capitalistic one lies in
> PROPERTY RIGHTS.
>
> Now if we look at ONE of the ROOT CAUSES of the Naxalite movements of
> Central India, it IS about PROPERTY RIGHTS, except it it is in the complete
> OPPOSITE of what Ram and Kamal have been wailing about. The indigenous
> people of these regions are fighting to preserve THEIR property rights
> over their ancestral land and mineral rights, that the Indian government has
> USURPED and then given them away to CORPORATIONS to the detriment of the
> people who have lived on from time immemorial.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 25, 2010, at 9:14 PM, Dilip and Dil Deka wrote:
>
>> Kamal,
>> Yes, I believe you are way off the mark.
>> "Aren't communism and democracy the opposite sides of the same coin? It
>> means that both of them are diametrically opposite. Or,am I way way
>> off the mark?"   ------ When you say same coin- what is the coin? Please
>> define the coin. Dictatorship and Democracy are diametrically opposite but
>> not Communism and Democracy.  Is Communism the same as Dictatorship - I
>> don't think so. It happens that way in many cases but it was not designed to
>> be that way.
>> The idea of communism was to share as is Democracy's. It is the
>> interpretation and execution of the principles that created the
>> transformations.
>> So, it depends on whether you are a purist or  not, to support one form of
>> ideology or the other.
>>
>> Remember I am a fundamentalist when it comes to political thoughts.
>>
>> Dilipda
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
>> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world
>> <assam at assamnet.org>
>> Sent: Fri, June 25, 2010 7:01:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Assam] poem and news : The true story about encounters with
>> Maoist in West Bengal
>>
>>>>> But, I was wrong, actually the Communists would be worse than Indira.
>>>>> IG
>>
>> gave up her PM seat after she lost the election. There was at least a
>> hint<<<
>>
>> RS,
>> Well done.
>>
>> You know, Indira Gandhi was the darling of the nation when she whacked
>> Yahya Khan and dismembered Pakistan in 1971. There was no doubt that
>> she had nerves of steel. But it all came to nought when she imposed
>> the dictatorial Emergency four years later, in flagrant defiance of
>> the public mood.  Durga became a demon overnight and the electorate
>> turned its back on her. The Congress was booted out and she herself
>> was defeated. India said No to Mrs Gandhi and her politics of the
>> Emergency.
>>
>> Aren't communism and democracy the opposite sides of the same coin? It
>> means that both of them are diametrically opposite. Or,am I way way
>> off the mark?
>> KJD
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Uttam,
>>>
>>>> Could anyone use/ incite Rameswars if they were otherwise comfortable?
>>>> Could you hatch chicken from stones?
>>>
>>> The argument could have been valid, IF Rameshwar's life was improved. Not
>>> if
>>> if the actions of these 'saviours' (Naxals or for that matter ULFA) makes
>>> the situation worse, and in many cases causing death/injury to the very
>>> people they purport to be saving. With friends like these Naxals or ULFA
>>> (for the Rameshwars of the world), who needs enemies?
>>>
>>>> Second, why do you have to think that Naxals and Maoists would be like
>>>
>>> Indira, the dictator?
>>>
>>> Right!. IG was elected, and then became a dictator (at least during the
>>> emergency), and these groups, use violence as a means to achieving their
>>> Communist agenda.
>>>
>>> But, I was wrong, actually the Communists would be worse than Indira. IG
>>> gave up her PM seat after she lost the election. There was at least a
>>> hint
>>> of democracy in her. She could have just stated she wasn't giving up the
>>> throne, and most people who matter in India would have been singing
>>> praises
>>> and writing poems.
>>>
>>> And you think, once the Naxals get a hold of power, they are going to
>>> give
>>> up that easily. They get their power thru violence, and what makes you
>>> think
>>> they would NOT use violence again to hold on to it? This is the same
>>> argument that goes against the likes of ULFA.
>>>
>>>> The Chinese Communists have become good capitalists, even lending the US
>>>
>>> money albeit to make the bubble burst?
>>>
>>> Don't know where this fits in? BUT Lending money to the US - yes, through
>>> USD holdings. The US has been giving the Chinese MFN (Most Favored
>>> Nation)
>>> status to export goods/services for a long time. The US market is flooded
>>> with Chinese made goods. The MFN is one of the most coveted awards the US
>>> dishes out. That alone, it can be argued, can catapult a country like
>>> China
>>> into prominence and an economic power - and today, they are EVEN in a
>>> position to help the US.
>>>
>>>> The Maoist Prachanda (who raged a armed rebellion) has given up on arms
>>>
>>> even to let others rule
>>>>
>>>> even when his is the single largest party, in conformity with democratic
>>>
>>> norms, not usually followed by our BJPs/ Congresses.
>>>
>>> I don't know this person. But what on earth is a Maoist doing following
>>> Democratic norms? So, from this example, we ought to just let let
>>> violence
>>> these groups perpetrate go unabated - hoping (against hope) that they all
>>> give up arms, let others rule, and even follow democracy?
>>>
>>> C'mon Uttam... does this really make sense? :-)
>>>
>>>> Pray, why this prejudice, the knee-jerk reaction? The days of
>>>> iron/bamboo
>>>
>>> curtains are quite over.
>>>
>>> Not really. Look at some history. Through numerous trials and errors, the
>>> world has generally accepted democracy as a true and tested form of
>>> governance. There are a few different forms of democracy (the British and
>>> US
>>> systems differ, and so does Japan), but in general, most countries follow
>>> a
>>> system close as possible to democracy.
>>> Yes, there are problems, specially in a country like India, and it takes
>>> time, and a nation and her people often needs to mature. India's
>>> experience
>>> with democracy is only 60 odd years - compared to the Brits and the US.
>>>
>>> As far as those other systems go - those have been successful, only if
>>> one
>>> thinks that the people in China, Vietnam and Cuba are a free people with
>>> independent thought and action? Otherwise, they are total failures.
>>> As for these ultra groups, their goals, methods, and promises, the less
>>> said, the better.
>>>
>>> If any of the other isms you cite were that good, the world over people
>>> would have been embracing them. Those systems can be enforced only by
>>> force.
>>> Do we want that?
>>>
>>>> The Naxals/ Maoists may turn out to be good democrats, who knows? Else
>>>> they
>>>
>>> will lose the fight,
>>>>
>>>> due to lack of people's support; if they are wrong PC does not even have
>>>> to
>>>
>>> raise a finger. They will
>>>>
>>>> crumble due to their own foibles that you so clearly find in them.
>>>
>>> I don't where we are headed?
>>>
>>> Naxals/Maoists are perpetrating all this violence, so that they can
>>> establish a good Democracy? You are kidding, right?
>>>
>>> Why don't they just become 'democrats' to start with :-)
>>>
>>> --Ram da
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 4:49 AM, UTTAM BORTHAKUR
>>> <uttamborthakur at yahoo.co.in
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ram Da,
>>>>
>>>> Could anyone use/ incite Rameswars if they were otherwise comfortable?
>>>> Could you hatch chicken from stones?
>>>>
>>>> Second, why do you have to think that Naxals and Maoists would be like
>>>> Indira, the dictator?
>>>> The Chinese Communists have become good capitalists, even lending the US
>>>> money albeit to
>>>> make the bubble burst?
>>>> The Euro communists are not demonic the way you paint the communists.
>>>> Our CPM is quite docile; even supports the UPA.
>>>> The Maoist Prachanda (who raged a armed rebellion) has given up on arms
>>>> even
>>>> to let others rule
>>>> even when his is the single largest party, in conformity with democratic
>>>> norms,
>>>> not usually followed by our BJPs/ Congresses.
>>>> Pray, why this prejudice, the knee-jerk reaction? The days of
>>>> iron/bamboo
>>>> curtains are quite over.
>>>> The Naxals/ Maoists may turn out to be good democrats, who knows? Else
>>>> they
>>>> will lose the fight,
>>>> due to lack of people's support; if they are wrong PC does not even have
>>>> to
>>>> raise a finger. They will
>>>> crumble due to their own foibles that you so clearly find in them.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> assam mailing list
>>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> assam mailing list
>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> assam mailing list
>> assam at assamnet.org
>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> assam mailing list
>> assam at assamnet.org
>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>