[Assam] poem and news : The true story about encounters with Maoist in West Bengal
Chan Mahanta
cmahanta at gmail.com
Sat Jun 26 07:09:08 PDT 2010
On Jun 26, 2010, at 8:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>> Not only are you NOT off the MARK, the explanation betrays an
>> abject lack
> of understanding
>> of the di
>
> If that was the case, then why on earth was the poem and example of
> Ramwehwar a big deal?
*** I did not read the whole story. I did not have to.
But does this question somehow negates what I pointed out?
>
> If the problem was not with "Democracy" but really with the Indian
> system of
> governance, then how come the
> Naxals haven't tried to contribute, and make the existing system
> better?
>
> The answer lies in the fact that, they really ain't interested in
> the lot of
> the common man - they just want to grab that power.
>
>
> --Ram
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 8:24 AM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Not only are you NOT off the MARK, the explanation betrays an
>> abject lack
>> of understanding
>> of the difference between an ideology and a system of governance.
>> That
>> simple!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 25, 2010, at 10:05 PM, kamal deka wrote:
>>
>> As I understand,in the field of politics,communism and democracy are
>>> two different idealogies.
>>>
>>> to put it simply, communism as Marx envisioned it is a kind of
>>> democracy.
>>>
>>> But Communism in practice results in a dictatorship in which a few
>>> rule
>>> over the many and the many have no say in who the few are and how
>>> they
>>> rule.In communism, the power is vested in a group of people who
>>> decide
>>> the course of action. Democracy is a rule by the people and the
>>> elected representatives are bound to fulfil the wishes of the
>>> society.
>>> In communism private ownership is not allowed whereas in democracy
>>> it is allowed.
>>> Am I still beside the mark?
>>> Kamal
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 9:14 PM, Dilip and Dil Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com
>>> >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kamal,
>>>> Yes, I believe you are way off the mark.
>>>> "Aren't communism and democracy the opposite sides of the same
>>>> coin? It
>>>> means that both of them are diametrically opposite. Or,am I way way
>>>> off the mark?" ------ When you say same coin- what is the coin?
>>>> Please
>>>> define the coin. Dictatorship and Democracy are diametrically
>>>> opposite but
>>>> not Communism and Democracy. Is Communism the same as
>>>> Dictatorship - I
>>>> don't think so. It happens that way in many cases but it was not
>>>> designed to
>>>> be that way.
>>>> The idea of communism was to share as is Democracy's. It is the
>>>> interpretation and execution of the principles that created the
>>>> transformations.
>>>> So, it depends on whether you are a purist or not, to support
>>>> one form
>>>> of ideology or the other.
>>>>
>>>> Remember I am a fundamentalist when it comes to political thoughts.
>>>>
>>>> Dilipda
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
>>>> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>> world <
>>>> assam at assamnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Fri, June 25, 2010 7:01:41 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Assam] poem and news : The true story about
>>>> encounters with
>>>> Maoist in West Bengal
>>>>
>>>> But, I was wrong, actually the Communists would be worse than
>>>> Indira. IG
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> gave up her PM seat after she lost the election. There was at
>>>>>> least a
>>>> hint<<<
>>>>
>>>> RS,
>>>> Well done.
>>>>
>>>> You know, Indira Gandhi was the darling of the nation when she
>>>> whacked
>>>> Yahya Khan and dismembered Pakistan in 1971. There was no doubt
>>>> that
>>>> she had nerves of steel. But it all came to nought when she imposed
>>>> the dictatorial Emergency four years later, in flagrant defiance of
>>>> the public mood. Durga became a demon overnight and the electorate
>>>> turned its back on her. The Congress was booted out and she herself
>>>> was defeated. India said No to Mrs Gandhi and her politics of the
>>>> Emergency.
>>>>
>>>> Aren't communism and democracy the opposite sides of the same
>>>> coin? It
>>>> means that both of them are diametrically opposite. Or,am I way way
>>>> off the mark?
>>>> KJD
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Ram Sarangapani
>>>> <assamrs at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Uttam,
>>>>>
>>>>> Could anyone use/ incite Rameswars if they were otherwise
>>>>> comfortable?
>>>>>> Could you hatch chicken from stones?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The argument could have been valid, IF Rameshwar's life was
>>>>> improved.
>>>>> Not if
>>>>> if the actions of these 'saviours' (Naxals or for that matter
>>>>> ULFA)
>>>>> makes
>>>>> the situation worse, and in many cases causing death/injury to
>>>>> the very
>>>>> people they purport to be saving. With friends like these Naxals
>>>>> or ULFA
>>>>> (for the Rameshwars of the world), who needs enemies?
>>>>>
>>>>> Second, why do you have to think that Naxals and Maoists would
>>>>> be like
>>>>>>
>>>>> Indira, the dictator?
>>>>>
>>>>> Right!. IG was elected, and then became a dictator (at least
>>>>> during the
>>>>> emergency), and these groups, use violence as a means to
>>>>> achieving their
>>>>> Communist agenda.
>>>>>
>>>>> But, I was wrong, actually the Communists would be worse than
>>>>> Indira. IG
>>>>> gave up her PM seat after she lost the election. There was at
>>>>> least a
>>>>> hint
>>>>> of democracy in her. She could have just stated she wasn't
>>>>> giving up the
>>>>> throne, and most people who matter in India would have been
>>>>> singing
>>>>> praises
>>>>> and writing poems.
>>>>>
>>>>> And you think, once the Naxals get a hold of power, they are
>>>>> going to
>>>>> give
>>>>> up that easily. They get their power thru violence, and what
>>>>> makes you
>>>>> think
>>>>> they would NOT use violence again to hold on to it? This is the
>>>>> same
>>>>> argument that goes against the likes of ULFA.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Chinese Communists have become good capitalists, even
>>>>> lending the
>>>>>> US
>>>>>>
>>>>> money albeit to make the bubble burst?
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't know where this fits in? BUT Lending money to the US - yes,
>>>>> through
>>>>> USD holdings. The US has been giving the Chinese MFN (Most Favored
>>>>> Nation)
>>>>> status to export goods/services for a long time. The US market is
>>>>> flooded
>>>>> with Chinese made goods. The MFN is one of the most coveted
>>>>> awards the
>>>>> US
>>>>> dishes out. That alone, it can be argued, can catapult a country
>>>>> like
>>>>> China
>>>>> into prominence and an economic power - and today, they are EVEN
>>>>> in a
>>>>> position to help the US.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Maoist Prachanda (who raged a armed rebellion) has given up
>>>>> on arms
>>>>>>
>>>>> even to let others rule
>>>>>
>>>>>> even when his is the single largest party, in conformity with
>>>>>> democratic
>>>>>>
>>>>> norms, not usually followed by our BJPs/ Congresses.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know this person. But what on earth is a Maoist doing
>>>>> following
>>>>> Democratic norms? So, from this example, we ought to just let let
>>>>> violence
>>>>> these groups perpetrate go unabated - hoping (against hope) that
>>>>> they
>>>>> all
>>>>> give up arms, let others rule, and even follow democracy?
>>>>>
>>>>> C'mon Uttam... does this really make sense? :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Pray, why this prejudice, the knee-jerk reaction? The days of
>>>>>> iron/bamboo
>>>>>>
>>>>> curtains are quite over.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not really. Look at some history. Through numerous trials and
>>>>> errors,
>>>>> the
>>>>> world has generally accepted democracy as a true and tested form
>>>>> of
>>>>> governance. There are a few different forms of democracy (the
>>>>> British
>>>>> and US
>>>>> systems differ, and so does Japan), but in general, most countries
>>>>> follow a
>>>>> system close as possible to democracy.
>>>>> Yes, there are problems, specially in a country like India, and
>>>>> it takes
>>>>> time, and a nation and her people often needs to mature. India's
>>>>> experience
>>>>> with democracy is only 60 odd years - compared to the Brits and
>>>>> the US.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as those other systems go - those have been successful,
>>>>> only if
>>>>> one
>>>>> thinks that the people in China, Vietnam and Cuba are a free
>>>>> people with
>>>>> independent thought and action? Otherwise, they are total
>>>>> failures.
>>>>> As for these ultra groups, their goals, methods, and promises,
>>>>> the less
>>>>> said, the better.
>>>>>
>>>>> If any of the other isms you cite were that good, the world over
>>>>> people
>>>>> would have been embracing them. Those systems can be enforced
>>>>> only by
>>>>> force.
>>>>> Do we want that?
>>>>>
>>>>> The Naxals/ Maoists may turn out to be good democrats, who
>>>>> knows? Else
>>>>>> they
>>>>>>
>>>>> will lose the fight,
>>>>>
>>>>>> due to lack of people's support; if they are wrong PC does not
>>>>>> even
>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>
>>>>> raise a finger. They will
>>>>>
>>>>>> crumble due to their own foibles that you so clearly find in
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't where we are headed?
>>>>>
>>>>> Naxals/Maoists are perpetrating all this violence, so that they
>>>>> can
>>>>> establish a good Democracy? You are kidding, right?
>>>>>
>>>>> Why don't they just become 'democrats' to start with :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> --Ram da
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 4:49 AM, UTTAM BORTHAKUR <
>>>>> uttamborthakur at yahoo.co.in
>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ram Da,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Could anyone use/ incite Rameswars if they were otherwise
>>>>>> comfortable?
>>>>>> Could you hatch chicken from stones?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Second, why do you have to think that Naxals and Maoists would
>>>>>> be like
>>>>>> Indira, the dictator?
>>>>>> The Chinese Communists have become good capitalists, even
>>>>>> lending the
>>>>>> US
>>>>>> money albeit to
>>>>>> make the bubble burst?
>>>>>> The Euro communists are not demonic the way you paint the
>>>>>> communists.
>>>>>> Our CPM is quite docile; even supports the UPA.
>>>>>> The Maoist Prachanda (who raged a armed rebellion) has given up
>>>>>> on arms
>>>>>> even
>>>>>> to let others rule
>>>>>> even when his is the single largest party, in conformity with
>>>>>> democratic
>>>>>> norms,
>>>>>> not usually followed by our BJPs/ Congresses.
>>>>>> Pray, why this prejudice, the knee-jerk reaction? The days of
>>>>>> iron/bamboo
>>>>>> curtains are quite over.
>>>>>> The Naxals/ Maoists may turn out to be good democrats, who
>>>>>> knows? Else
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> will lose the fight,
>>>>>> due to lack of people's support; if they are wrong PC does not
>>>>>> even
>>>>>> have to
>>>>>> raise a finger. They will
>>>>>> crumble due to their own foibles that you so clearly find in
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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