[Assam] poem and news : The true story about encounters with Maoist in West Bengal

Sat Jun 26 15:41:27 PDT 2010

KJD,

The other thing one should mention is that ONLY in thriving democracies will
something like communism will be entertained, as an outlier.

But the very existence of Communist countries depends on purging anyone who
doesn't follow their line of thinking.

--Ram

On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 4:47 PM, kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com> wrote:

> Smashing explanation!! Wait,wait,let me take it back.Not really.This
> is rather a fairy tale or fanciful explanation, because it is littered
> with inconsistency.
> When a government is formed by a party with specific political
> affiliation,they will ,of course,shape their policy in consonance with
> the party's ideology.One does not have to be a guru in political
> science to make this out.
>
> Can you tell me if authoritarian regimes like China or Cuba,where
> there is the principle of unqualified submission to authority as
> opposed to
> individual freedom of thought and action,did not mould their system of
> governance in compliance with their political ideology?
>
> KJD
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 8:24 AM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Not only are you NOT off the MARK, the explanation betrays an abject lack
> of
> > understanding
> > of the difference between an ideology and a system of governance. That
> > simple!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jun 25, 2010, at 10:05 PM, kamal deka wrote:
> >
> >> As I understand,in the field of politics,communism and democracy are
> >> two different idealogies.
> >>
> >> to put it simply, communism as Marx envisioned it is a kind of
> democracy.
> >>
> >> But Communism in practice results in a dictatorship in which a few rule
> >> over the many and the many have no say in who the few are and how they
> >> rule.In communism, the power is vested in a group of people who decide
> >> the course of action. Democracy is a rule by the people and the
> >> elected representatives are bound to fulfil the wishes of the society.
> >> In communism private ownership is not allowed whereas in democracy
> >> it is allowed.
> >> Am I still beside the mark?
> >> Kamal
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 9:14 PM, Dilip and Dil Deka <
> dilipdeka at yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Kamal,
> >>> Yes, I believe you are way off the mark.
> >>> "Aren't communism and democracy the opposite sides of the same coin? It
> >>> means that both of them are diametrically opposite. Or,am I way way
> >>> off the mark?"   ------ When you say same coin- what is the coin?
> Please
> >>> define the coin. Dictatorship and Democracy are diametrically opposite
> but
> >>> not Communism and Democracy.  Is Communism the same as Dictatorship - I
> >>> don't think so. It happens that way in many cases but it was not
> designed to
> >>> be that way.
> >>> The idea of communism was to share as is Democracy's. It is the
> >>> interpretation and execution of the principles that created the
> >>> transformations.
> >>> So, it depends on whether you are a purist or  not, to support one form
> >>> of ideology or the other.
> >>>
> >>> Remember I am a fundamentalist when it comes to political thoughts.
> >>>
> >>> Dilipda
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
> >>> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world
> >>> <assam at assamnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Fri, June 25, 2010 7:01:41 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Assam] poem and news : The true story about encounters
> with
> >>> Maoist in West Bengal
> >>>
> >>>>>> But, I was wrong, actually the Communists would be worse than
> Indira.
> >>>>>> IG
> >>>
> >>> gave up her PM seat after she lost the election. There was at least a
> >>> hint<<<
> >>>
> >>> RS,
> >>> Well done.
> >>>
> >>> You know, Indira Gandhi was the darling of the nation when she whacked
> >>> Yahya Khan and dismembered Pakistan in 1971. There was no doubt that
> >>> she had nerves of steel. But it all came to nought when she imposed
> >>> the dictatorial Emergency four years later, in flagrant defiance of
> >>> the public mood.  Durga became a demon overnight and the electorate
> >>> turned its back on her. The Congress was booted out and she herself
> >>> was defeated. India said No to Mrs Gandhi and her politics of the
> >>> Emergency.
> >>>
> >>> Aren't communism and democracy the opposite sides of the same coin? It
> >>> means that both of them are diametrically opposite. Or,am I way way
> >>> off the mark?
> >>> KJD
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Uttam,
> >>>>
> >>>>> Could anyone use/ incite Rameswars if they were otherwise
> comfortable?
> >>>>> Could you hatch chicken from stones?
> >>>>
> >>>> The argument could have been valid, IF Rameshwar's life was improved.
> >>>> Not if
> >>>> if the actions of these 'saviours' (Naxals or for that matter ULFA)
> >>>> makes
> >>>> the situation worse, and in many cases causing death/injury to the
> very
> >>>> people they purport to be saving. With friends like these Naxals or
> ULFA
> >>>> (for the Rameshwars of the world), who needs enemies?
> >>>>
> >>>>> Second, why do you have to think that Naxals and Maoists would be
> like
> >>>>
> >>>> Indira, the dictator?
> >>>>
> >>>> Right!. IG was elected, and then became a dictator (at least during
> the
> >>>> emergency), and these groups, use violence as a means to achieving
> their
> >>>> Communist agenda.
> >>>>
> >>>> But, I was wrong, actually the Communists would be worse than Indira.
> IG
> >>>> gave up her PM seat after she lost the election. There was at least a
> >>>> hint
> >>>> of democracy in her. She could have just stated she wasn't giving up
> the
> >>>> throne, and most people who matter in India would have been singing
> >>>> praises
> >>>> and writing poems.
> >>>>
> >>>> And you think, once the Naxals get a hold of power, they are going to
> >>>> give
> >>>> up that easily. They get their power thru violence, and what makes you
> >>>> think
> >>>> they would NOT use violence again to hold on to it? This is the same
> >>>> argument that goes against the likes of ULFA.
> >>>>
> >>>>> The Chinese Communists have become good capitalists, even lending the
> >>>>> US
> >>>>
> >>>> money albeit to make the bubble burst?
> >>>>
> >>>> Don't know where this fits in? BUT Lending money to the US - yes,
> >>>> through
> >>>> USD holdings. The US has been giving the Chinese MFN (Most Favored
> >>>> Nation)
> >>>> status to export goods/services for a long time. The US market is
> >>>> flooded
> >>>> with Chinese made goods. The MFN is one of the most coveted awards the
> >>>> US
> >>>> dishes out. That alone, it can be argued, can catapult a country like
> >>>> China
> >>>> into prominence and an economic power - and today, they are EVEN in a
> >>>> position to help the US.
> >>>>
> >>>>> The Maoist Prachanda (who raged a armed rebellion) has given up on
> arms
> >>>>
> >>>> even to let others rule
> >>>>>
> >>>>> even when his is the single largest party, in conformity with
> >>>>> democratic
> >>>>
> >>>> norms, not usually followed by our BJPs/ Congresses.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't know this person. But what on earth is a Maoist doing
> following
> >>>> Democratic norms? So, from this example, we ought to just let let
> >>>> violence
> >>>> these groups perpetrate go unabated - hoping (against hope) that they
> >>>> all
> >>>> give up arms, let others rule, and even follow democracy?
> >>>>
> >>>> C'mon Uttam... does this really make sense? :-)
> >>>>
> >>>>> Pray, why this prejudice, the knee-jerk reaction? The days of
> >>>>> iron/bamboo
> >>>>
> >>>> curtains are quite over.
> >>>>
> >>>> Not really. Look at some history. Through numerous trials and errors,
> >>>> the
> >>>> world has generally accepted democracy as a true and tested form of
> >>>> governance. There are a few different forms of democracy (the British
> >>>> and US
> >>>> systems differ, and so does Japan), but in general, most countries
> >>>> follow a
> >>>> system close as possible to democracy.
> >>>> Yes, there are problems, specially in a country like India, and it
> takes
> >>>> time, and a nation and her people often needs to mature. India's
> >>>> experience
> >>>> with democracy is only 60 odd years - compared to the Brits and the
> US.
> >>>>
> >>>> As far as those other systems go - those have been successful, only if
> >>>> one
> >>>> thinks that the people in China, Vietnam and Cuba are a free people
> with
> >>>> independent thought and action? Otherwise, they are total failures.
> >>>> As for these ultra groups, their goals, methods, and promises, the
> less
> >>>> said, the better.
> >>>>
> >>>> If any of the other isms you cite were that good, the world over
> people
> >>>> would have been embracing them. Those systems can be enforced only by
> >>>> force.
> >>>> Do we want that?
> >>>>
> >>>>> The Naxals/ Maoists may turn out to be good democrats, who knows?
> Else
> >>>>> they
> >>>>
> >>>> will lose the fight,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> due to lack of people's support; if they are wrong PC does not even
> >>>>> have to
> >>>>
> >>>> raise a finger. They will
> >>>>>
> >>>>> crumble due to their own foibles that you so clearly find in them.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't where we are headed?
> >>>>
> >>>> Naxals/Maoists are perpetrating all this violence, so that they can
> >>>> establish a good Democracy? You are kidding, right?
> >>>>
> >>>> Why don't they just become 'democrats' to start with :-)
> >>>>
> >>>> --Ram da
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 4:49 AM, UTTAM BORTHAKUR
> >>>> <uttamborthakur at yahoo.co.in
> >>>>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Ram Da,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Could anyone use/ incite Rameswars if they were otherwise
> comfortable?
> >>>>> Could you hatch chicken from stones?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Second, why do you have to think that Naxals and Maoists would be
> like
> >>>>> Indira, the dictator?
> >>>>> The Chinese Communists have become good capitalists, even lending the
> >>>>> US
> >>>>> money albeit to
> >>>>> make the bubble burst?
> >>>>> The Euro communists are not demonic the way you paint the communists.
> >>>>> Our CPM is quite docile; even supports the UPA.
> >>>>> The Maoist Prachanda (who raged a armed rebellion) has given up on
> arms
> >>>>> even
> >>>>> to let others rule
> >>>>> even when his is the single largest party, in conformity with
> >>>>> democratic
> >>>>> norms,
> >>>>> not usually followed by our BJPs/ Congresses.
> >>>>> Pray, why this prejudice, the knee-jerk reaction? The days of
> >>>>> iron/bamboo
> >>>>> curtains are quite over.
> >>>>> The Naxals/ Maoists may turn out to be good democrats, who knows?
> Else
> >>>>> they
> >>>>> will lose the fight,
> >>>>> due to lack of people's support; if they are wrong PC does not even
> >>>>> have to
> >>>>> raise a finger. They will
> >>>>> crumble due to their own foibles that you so clearly find in them.
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> assam mailing list
> >>>>> assam at assamnet.org
> >>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> assam mailing list
> >>>> assam at assamnet.org
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> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>
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> >
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