[Assam] Missionaries: the good, the bad, and the ugly - Ramdas Lamb, Washington Post
Chan Mahanta
cmahanta at gmail.com
Sun May 2 08:18:15 PDT 2010
>People accepting and
>
> following the religion of parents is the number one cause why people
> belong
> to that particular religion.
*** So be it, as LONG AS the progeny have no complaints about carrying
on
the tradition. That is a freedom of choice. It becomes an ISSUE when
one cites
it to challenge or demonize CONVERSION.
That is the difference.
> In fact, this is also the reason for people speaking their 'Mother
> tongue' or belong to one country or another.
*** Apples vs. oranges. No parallels here.
>but there is notion
> afloat in the NE and its effects are real.
*** Just because the idea is project by some as an explanation for
seeking
independence etc. , it is merely a ploy to DEFLECT attention away from
the REAL
CAUSES, which many prefer not to see, hear or talk about, due to the
unchangeable nature of Indian conditions. The Nagas or the Mizos
did not seek independence merely because of their conversion to
Christianity.
Nor did the converters do so to incite them to insurgencies. But if
education
and information brought to them by the missionaries OPENED THEIR EYES
to seek better treatment, failing which leading to the quest for
independence, then
it is NOT the fault of them villainous missionaries. It is the fault
of THOSE
who held them under control, denying them their fundamental human
rights and
freedoms.
That simple.
On May 2, 2010, at 9:50 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
> C'da,
>
>
>> Could these people just be pretending and have
>> secretly not converted from their religion at birth?
>>
>
>> *** How can there be a "--religion at birth". Is religion a
>> genetically
> imprinted trait? Is it an intellectually tenable
>> proposition? The notion is the same as basis of the caste system
>> passed on
> generation to generation, unshakable, and
>> should be equally reprehensible.
>
> Hehehe.... You are just trying to split hairs here. Why are you
> surprised at
> this reality? That is how it is, and has been for ever.
>
>> *** How can there be a "--religion at birth". Is religion a
>> genetically
> imprinted trait?
>
> It is very nearly a genetically imprinted trait. People accepting and
> following the religion of parents is the number one cause why people
> belong
> to that particular religion. And yes, as reprehensible as this is,
> it jus
> very similar to the caste system - passed on from one generation to
> the
> next. In fact, this is also the reason for people speaking their
> 'Mother
> tongue' or belong to one country or another.
>
>> Heck someone like me could easily convert into another religion,
>> given the
> right sum, and without batting an eyelid :-).
>
>> *** By all means. But that does NOT make everybody else equally
>> cynical or
> opportunistic.
>
> Hehehe! was just speaking for myself. Others are welcome to the
> club :-)
>
>
>> but their goal is to convert just enough to start violent
>> rebellions such
>> as in
>> Northeast India and destabilize the unity of India. " - from one of
>> the
>> comments
>>
>> *** What is the VALUE of this comment? Does it have any basis?
>
> I know this comment from the article may not have value, but there
> is notion
> afloat in the NE and its effects are real. In fact, one of my
> Christian
> friend (who is a Reverend at Guwahati) also mentioned this to me. He
> mentioned how his charity is often held to such suspicions. Though
> you and I
> may think there is no basis - it is very real for the reverend.
>
> --Ram
>
> On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 8:57 AM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> But, I am guilty, my question to him wasn't sincere. What kind of
>> people
>>> would convert back and forth?
>>>
>>
>>
>> *** Perhaps the re-converters of Dangs would explain.
>>
>>
>> Could these people just be pretending and have
>>> secretly not converted from their religion at birth?
>>>
>>
>> *** How can there be a "--religion at birth".
>> Is religion a genetically imprinted trait? Is it an intellectually
>> tenable
>> proposition? The notion is the same as basis of the caste system
>> passed on generation to generation, unshakable, and
>> should be equally reprehensible.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Do religions seriously
>>
>>> want such people? It all seems so superficial.
>>>
>>
>>
>> *** If I had to play the Devil's advocate, I would counter: How
>> does one
>> know if the converted do not BELIEVE? So the skepticism in this
>> case is a
>> product
>> of the eye of the beholder and does not necessarily have any
>> intrinsic
>> value.
>>
>>
>>
>> Heck someone like me could easily convert into another religion,
>> given the
>>> right sum, and without batting an eyelid :-).
>>>
>>
>>
>> *** By all means. But that does NOT make everybody else equally
>> cynical
>> or opportunistic.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Although nowadays most Christian proselytizers have renounced such
>>> violence, groups like the Manmasi National Christian Army in
>>> Assam, India,
>>> continue to use threats to force
>>> conversion." - Ramdas Lamb
>>>
>>
>> *** How does Rev. Lamb explain how conversion under duress sticks?
>> What is
>> to prevent one from renouncing the forced faith as soon as the
>> threat or
>> force
>> is gone or reduced? The only way it can be explained is by
>> invoking the
>> know-nothing concept of "jaat--moraa". Like eating beef or marrying a
>> non-Hindu
>> condemns certain Hindus of having forfeited their Hinduttwa.
>>
>>
>>
>> but their
>>> goal is to convert just enough to start violent rebellions such as
>>> in
>>> Northeast India and destabilize the unity of India. " - from one
>>> of the
>>> comments
>>>
>>
>> *** What is the VALUE of this comment? Does it have any basis?
>>
>> Finally, my question is this:
>>
>> Hindus, when intellectually challenged with the question of what
>> their
>> religion
>> means to them, counter that Hinduism is NOT a RELIGION, citing one
>> of its
>> brightest intellects, Radhakrishnan and others, that it is a way
>> of life,
>> whatever that
>> might mean ( a culture?).
>>
>> If that has to be taken seriously, then how can CONVERSION of someone
>> without a religion ( being born into a Hindu culture that IS not a
>> religion)
>> be an affront to the HIndu?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 1, 2010, at 4:07 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>>
>> This column is from the Washington Post, March this year. The
>> topic is
>>> like
>>> a lightening rod, and attracts a lot of attention both within
>>> India and
>>> outside.
>>>
>>> A Rajastani friend of mine based at Guwahati brought up this topic
>>> of
>>> conversion this past year. He, of course, is convinced that
>>> conversion
>>> goes
>>> on the all the time in the NE. My question to him was, if it was
>>> just
>>> 'charity and helping' that helps in converting poor or caste
>>> Hindus to
>>> Christianity, then why don't Hindus also do the same to keep them
>>> from
>>> being
>>> converted. He acknowledged that Hindu philanthropic groups had
>>> been slow
>>> on
>>> the take and now many such groups (even at Guwahati) are doing
>>> this &
>>> quite
>>> successfully..
>>>
>>> But, I am guilty, my question to him wasn't sincere. What kind of
>>> people
>>> would convert back and forth? Could these people just be
>>> pretending and
>>> have
>>> secretly not converted from their religion at birth? Do religions
>>> seriously
>>> want such people? It all seems so superficial.
>>>
>>> Heck someone like me could easily convert into another religion,
>>> given the
>>> right sum, and without batting an eyelid :-).
>>>
>>> __________
>>> There are some interesting observations in the column. Here are a
>>> few:
>>>
>>> "No matter how well intentioned, any attempts to push a religious
>>> belief
>>> or
>>> denomination on someone ultimately benefits no one and demeans the
>>> religion
>>> in the process. If missionaries actually have something of genuine
>>> worth
>>> and
>>> value, why do they need to seduce, coerce, or threaten people to
>>> get them
>>> to
>>> accept it? " - Ramdas Lamb
>>>
>>> "Although nowadays most Christian proselytizers have renounced such
>>> violence, groups like the Manmasi National Christian Army in
>>> Assam, India,
>>> continue to use threats to force
>>> conversion." - Ramdas Lamb
>>>
>>> "There are many dangerous cults and Jesus Jihadi organizations out
>>> there,
>>> they will never be able to convert the vast majority of Hindus,
>>> but their
>>> goal is to convert just enough to start violent rebellions such as
>>> in
>>> Northeast India and destabilize the unity of India. " - from one
>>> of the
>>> comments
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>>
>>> http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/ramdas_lamb/2010/03/missionaries_the_good_the_bad_and_the_ugly.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> GUEST VOICES: Franklin
>>> Graham<
>>> http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2010/04/every_day_a_national_day_of_prayer.html
>>>>
>>> [image: national day of
>>> prayer]<
>>> http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2010/04/every_day_a_national_day_of_prayer.html
>>>>
>>> Prayer is nonpartisan<
>>> http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2010/04/every_day_a_national_day_of_prayer.html
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> On National Day of Prayer, let's put aside our political
>>> differences.
>>> *VIDEO:* Graham on
>>> Islam<
>>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2010/04/22/VI2010042204233.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> *Susan Jacoby:* Atheism's political
>>> divide<
>>> http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/spirited_atheist/2010/04/atheists_irreligiously_united_politically_divided.html
>>>>
>>> *Sue Thistlethwaite:* In Ariz., suspect thy
>>> neighbor<
>>> http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/susan_brooks_thistlethwaite/2010/04/suspect_the_neighbor.html
>>>>
>>> *Feisal Abdul Rauf:* Sudan's democratic
>>> potential<
>>> http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/feisal_abdul_rauf/2010/04/sudans_democratic_potential.html
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: ad_icon]
>>> <
>>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/click%3Bh%3Dv8/398d/3/0/%2a/x%3B224508665%3B0-0%3B1%3B14897573%3B4307-300/250%3B35925057/35942935/1%3Bu%3Do_2a_5bCS_5dv1_7c2559DDC905148C4A_2d6000016E0000854E_5bCE_5d%3B%7Eokv%3D%3Bad%3Dss%3Bad%3Dbb%3Bad%3Dhp%3Bsz%3D160x600%2C300x250%2C336x850%3Bpos%3Dad6%3Bpoe%3Dno%3BA%3D1%3BD%3D4%3BC%3D2%3BC%3D15%3B%7Eaopt%3D2/1/ff/1%3B%7Esscs%3D%3fhttp%3A//bs.serving-sys.com/BurstingPipe/BannerRedirect.asp%3FFlightID%3D1363083%26Page%3D%26PluID%3D0%26Pos%3D794
>>> <http://ad.doubleclick.net/click%3Bh%3Dv8/398d/3/0/%2a/x%3B224508665%3B0-0%3B1%3B14897573%3B4307-300/250%3B35925057/35942935/1%3Bu%3Do_2a_5bCS_5dv1_7c2559DDC905148C4A_2d6000016E0000854E_5bCE_5d%3B~okv%3D%3Bad%3Dss%3Bad%3Dbb%3Bad%3Dhp%3Bsz%3D160x600%2C300x250%2C336x850%3Bpos%3Dad6%3Bpoe%3Dno%3BA%3D1%3BD%3D4%3BC%3D2%3BC%3D15%3B~aopt%3D2/1/ff/1%3B~sscs%3D%3fhttp%3A//bs.serving-sys.com/BurstingPipe/BannerRedirect.asp%3FFlightID%3D1363083%26Page%3D%26PluID%3D0%26Pos%3D794
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: Ramdas Lamb]
>>> Ex-Hindu monk, professor
>>> Ramdas Lamb<
>>> http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/ramdas_lamb/>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hindu monk in India from 1969-1978. Professor, University of
>>> Hawai’i,
>>> world
>>> religions and contemporary American religion.
>>> *ALL POSTS*<
>>> http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/ramdas_lamb/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ** <http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/ramdas_lamb/
>>> >Missionaries:
>>>
>>>
>>> the good, the bad, and the ugly
>>>
>>> *Q: Is there a problem with proselytism overseas by U.S. religious
>>> groups?
>>> Isn't sharing one's faith part of religious freedom? When does it
>>> cross
>>> the
>>> line into manipulation and coercion?*
>>>
>>> Missionary proselytization has been an integral part of the two main
>>> prophetic religions, Christianity and Islam, since early on in the
>>> formation
>>> of each. It is precisely the reason they are the two largest
>>> religions in
>>> the world. It is also one of the darkest and most sinister aspects
>>> of
>>> religion and one of the main reasons so many people have a
>>> negative view
>>> of
>>> anything to do with religion. The basis and justification for
>>> proselytization is an extremely narrow minded and arrogant
>>> assumption: "My
>>> religion is the only right one, I have the only truth, all other
>>> religions
>>> are wrong, and it is my duty to get others to think and believe
>>> like me."
>>> This belief has been used by Christians and Muslims for more than a
>>> millennium to justify the seduction, coercion, torture, and even
>>> murder of
>>> countless individuals in trying to get them to convert.
>>>
>>> This does not mean that missionaries as a group have not done many
>>> good
>>> things for people over the millennia, and some continue to have
>>> positive
>>> impacts in the lives of the poor and needy. Examples of this can
>>> be seen
>>> currently in both Haiti and Chile. However, the negative actions
>>> of those
>>> who focus is proselytization far outweigh the positive.
>>>
>>> Religion is simultaneously one of the best as well as one of the
>>> most
>>> destructive of human creations. Religions have inspired people
>>> like Mother
>>> Teresa, Mahatma Gandhi, and Martin Luther King to selflessly serve
>>> others
>>> and work to make the world a better place. Religions have also
>>> given rise
>>> to
>>> an ideology of hatred and have provided justification for the
>>> kinds of
>>> evils
>>> perpetuated by the likes of Aurangzeb, Hitler, and bin Laden.
>>>
>>> Proselytizers are fundamentalists whose ideology divides the world
>>> into
>>> "believers" and "non-believers." The latter comprise all those who
>>> are
>>> different, those perceived as the "other." One of the biggest
>>> difficulties
>>> that we face in this world is our distrust of others, a feeling
>>> that leads
>>> to fear, hate, and violence. In his 1991 documentary entitled
>>> "Beyond
>>> Hate,"
>>> Bill Moyers addresses concepts such as "insider and outsider," "us
>>> and
>>> other," etc. and the pivotal role this bifurcated view plays in
>>> justifying
>>> hatred and violence. Proselytizers thrive on these distinctions,
>>> these
>>> divisions, drawing sharp lines between their own beliefs and those
>>> of
>>> everyone else. Non-believers are seen as lesser, sometimes even as
>>> evil,
>>> and
>>> clearly in need to either being changed or, in the extreme,
>>> annihilated.
>>>
>>> More wars have been fought because of narrow religious doctrine and
>>> beliefs
>>> than for any other reason, and Christians and Muslims have been at
>>> the
>>> forefront. Both their histories are punctuated with wars against
>>> people of
>>> other religions, and the paths they have followed are riddled with
>>> the
>>> bodies of millions of innocent victims. One of the more extreme
>>> examples
>>> is
>>> the case of Timur, the 14th-century Muslim conqueror. In December,
>>> 1398,
>>> he
>>> overthrow the reigning Muslim ruler in Delhi. His justification
>>> was that
>>> the
>>> ruling dynasty was too tolerant of Hindus and did not convert
>>> them. Timur
>>> happily recounts in his memoirs that in the process of taking
>>> over, his
>>> army
>>> slaughtered 100,000 Hindus in a single day.
>>>
>>> Forced conversions continue, as is evident by events in countries
>>> like
>>> Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, and Egypt. Even in the Gaza
>>> strip, two
>>> western newsman were recently forced to convert at gunpoint. Just
>>> last
>>> week,
>>> two young Sikh men were kidnapped and
>>> beheaded<
>>> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Taliban-kill-2-Sikhs-send-heads-to-Pak-gurdwara/articleshow/5601006.cms
>>> >by
>>>
>>>
>>> members of the Taliban in Pakistan for refusing to convert to Islam.
>>> While such actions clearly do not represent the vast majority of
>>> Muslims,
>>> they have been condoned and even justified by fundamentalist Muslim
>>> leaders,
>>> and very few Muslims speak out in opposition, often out of fear. A
>>> recent
>>> and welcome exception is Dr. Tahir ul-Qadri, an influential
>>> Pakistani
>>> Muslim
>>> scholar, who just released a 600-page *fatwa* (religious edict)
>>> condemning
>>> Muslim terrorism and suicide bombings. Although it is a powerful and
>>> needed
>>> statement, it is a rarity, and Dr. ul-Qadri has unfortunately put
>>> his own
>>> life in danger in the process. Fundamentalists, irrespective of
>>> their
>>> chosen
>>> ideology, find disagreement difficult to allow, and violence has
>>> increasingly become a common reaction.
>>>
>>> Christian missionaries in the past were not much better. In
>>> addition to
>>> the
>>> violence in the name of Christianity that was perpetuated during the
>>> Crusades and the Inquisitions, a look at the early proselytization
>>> efforts
>>> in India, the Americas, and the Pacific makes it clear that many
>>> missionaries found relatively easy justification for the torture and
>>> execution of those who refused to become Christian or who
>>> challenged their
>>> beliefs. Although nowadays most Christian proselytizers have
>>> renounced
>>> such
>>> violence, groups like the Manmasi National Christian Army in
>>> Assam, India,
>>> continue to use threats to force conversion.
>>>
>>> Most European and American Christian missionaries during the last
>>> two
>>> centuries in Asia have found offers of food, work, education, and
>>> health
>>> care to be better methods for gaining converts. In the late 1700s,
>>> missionaries followed on the heels of the British East India
>>> Company and
>>> began a concerted effort to take over the Indian soul. Once the
>>> British
>>> government took control the country, proselytizers had a
>>> relatively free
>>> reign to pursue their objectives. Again, some missionaries did
>>> good works,
>>> but those focused on proselytization showed little actual concern
>>> for the
>>> well being of those they sought to convert.
>>>
>>> Many Hindus had hoped that Indian Independence would help curtail
>>> the more
>>> underhanded activities of the missionaries, but this did not
>>> happen. Less
>>> than a decade after Independence, a government study conducted in
>>> central
>>> India known as the Niyogi
>>> Report<
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niyogi_Committee_Report_on_Christian_Missionary_Activities
>>> >brought
>>>
>>>
>>> to light many of the underhanded and cynical methods that Christian
>>> missionaries were continuing to use. The Indian government did
>>> little
>>> about
>>> it, and as a consequence, many of the same tactics remain prevalent.
>>>
>>> Currently, Americans donate millions of dollars annually to
>>> Christian
>>> organizations that advertise charity work they do around the
>>> world. While
>>> it
>>> is true that some organizations do help many people, the
>>> assistance of
>>> many
>>> such groups comes with a price for the people being helped. That is
>>> because
>>> the real focus of most missionaries is on their proselytization
>>> efforts,
>>> for
>>> which a significant portion of the money is used. Far too often,
>>> their
>>> activities have absolutely nothing to do with spirituality or real
>>> charity,
>>> and everything to do with getting names and numbers of converts,
>>> so the
>>> missionaries can go back to their funding agencies and supporters
>>> and ask
>>> for continued finances for their claimed "successes."
>>>
>>> In India, missionaries tell their supporters in the U.S. that they
>>> provide
>>> free or inexpensive services to the needy. However, once initial
>>> assistance
>>> is given, then conditions are often added for subsequent help. If
>>> free
>>> education is provided, conversion may then be a requirement for its
>>> continuance past a certain point. If aid is in the form of health
>>> care,
>>> then
>>> the quality of care or type of medicine and treatment available
>>> may be
>>> determined by one's willingness to convert. This becomes a serious
>>> and
>>> difficult issue for parents who bring a sick or injured child to a
>>> missionary hospital. They may be told that the necessary care is
>>> only
>>> given
>>> to Christians, or that the required medicines "will only work" on
>>> Christians. For those who do convert in order to receive needed
>>> care, they
>>> may well be pressured to then convert other family members or else
>>> lose
>>> whatever aid they are receiving. I have seen families torn apart
>>> by such
>>> missionary activities in Central India where I conduct research.
>>> Again,
>>> this
>>> is not what all missionaries do, but these are fairly common
>>> occurrences.
>>>
>>> In early 2009, Pope Benedict XVI met the Chief Rabbinate of Israel
>>> and
>>> agreed to stop all conversion attempts directed at Jews. A month
>>> later,
>>> Cardinal Jean-Louis Pierre Tauran, president of Vatican's Pontifical
>>> Council
>>> for Inter-religious Dialogue, visited India and was asked while
>>> there if
>>> he
>>> would offer Hindus the same respect. He refused. There is a degree
>>> to
>>> narrow
>>> mindedness in every religious tradition, but when that is coupled
>>> with
>>> fundamentalist arrogance and powerful backing, nothing good can
>>> come from
>>> it.
>>>
>>> In his "Seeds of Contemplation," the late Catholic Trappist monk and
>>> mystic
>>> Thomas Merton warns about those with spiritual pride who think of
>>> themselves
>>> as having the truth and humility while others do not, who think
>>> they are
>>> suffering for God's sake but deep inside are becoming full of
>>> pride in
>>> their
>>> supposed sanctity, who think that everyone else must adhere to their
>>> truth.
>>> Merton writes that when such an individual thinks that "he is
>>> messenger of
>>> God or a man with a mission to reform the world. . . He is capable
>>> of
>>> destroying religion and making the name of God odious to men."
>>>
>>> I am a strong supporter of freedom of religion. Most proselytizers
>>> are
>>> not.
>>> They want the freedom to coerce vulnerable and gullible
>>> individuals into
>>> converting, and they can justify many nefarious methods to
>>> accomplish
>>> their
>>> goal. No matter how well intentioned, any attempts to push a
>>> religious
>>> belief or denomination on someone ultimately benefits no one and
>>> demeans
>>> the
>>> religion in the process. If missionaries actually have something of
>>> genuine
>>> worth and value, why do they need to seduce, coerce, or threaten
>>> people to
>>> get them to accept it? Maybe their methods suggest that what they
>>> have to
>>> offer is not that worthwhile.
>>>
>>> By Ramdas Lamb | March 4, 2010; 3:41 AM ET Save & Share:
>>> [image: Send
>>> E-mail]<
>>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/emailalink?sent=no&link=http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/ramdas_lamb/2010/03/missionaries_the_good_the_bad_and_the_ugly.html&title=Missionaries:%20the%20good,%20the%20bad,%20and%20the%20ugly
>>>>
>>> [image:
>>> Facebook]<
>>> http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/ramdas_lamb/2010/03/missionaries_the_good_the_bad_and_the_ugly.html&t=Missionaries:%20the%20good,%20the%20bad,%20and%20the%20ugly
>>>>
>>> [image:
>>>
>>> Twitter]<javascript:%20goTwitter('Missionaries:%20the%20good,%20the
>>> %20bad,%20and%20the%20ugly',%20'
>>> http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/ramdas_lamb/2010/03/missionaries_the_good_the_bad_and_the_ugly.html'
>>> )>
>>> [image:
>>> Digg]<
>>> http://digg.com/submit?phase=2&url=http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/ramdas_lamb/2010/03/missionaries_the_good_the_bad_and_the_ugly.html&title=Missionaries:%20the%20good,%20the%20bad,%20and%20the%20ugly
>>>>
>>> [image:
>>> Yahoo Buzz]<
>>> http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzz?publisherurn=washington_po284&guid=washington_po284:http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/ramdas_lamb/2010/03/missionaries_the_good_the_bad_and_the_ugly.html
>>>>
>>> [image:
>>> Del.icio.us <http://del.icio.us/>]<
>>> http://del.icio.us/post?url=http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/ramdas_lamb/2010/03/missionaries_the_good_the_bad_and_the_ugly.html;&title=Missionaries:%20the%20good,%20the%20bad,%20and%20the%20ugly%20-%20On%20Faith%20Panelists%20Blog
>>> ;>
>>> [image:
>>> StumbleUpon]<
>>> http://www.stumbleupon.com/submit?url=http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/ramdas_lamb/2010/03/missionaries_the_good_the_bad_and_the_ugly.html
>>>>
>>> [image:
>>> Technorati]<
>>> http://technorati.com/search/http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/ramdas_lamb/2010/03/missionaries_the_good_the_bad_and_the_ugly.html
>>>>
>>> Previous: In Haiti: First
>>> contact<
>>> http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/mark_driscoll/2010/03/in_haiti_first_contact.html
>>> >|
>>>
>>>
>>> Next: The
>>> Church and the Sex
>>> Question<
>>> http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/brian_d_mclaren/2010/03/the_church_and_the_sex_question.html
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> Comments
>>>
>>> Please report offensive comments below.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Darn, my religion sucks and everyone is quitting and eroding my
>>> power, it
>>> must be cheating for other religions to steal my minions."
>>>
>>> No not really, Hinduism has been around for 5000 years, I have no
>>> doubt we
>>> will be around for the next 5000. Infact Christianity foundations
>>> are
>>> actually very weak today especially in Europe.
>>> There are many dangerous cults and Jesus Jihadi organizations out
>>> there,
>>> they will never be able to convert the vast majority of Hindus,
>>> but their
>>> goal is to convert just enough to start violent rebellions such as
>>> in
>>> Northeast India and destabilize the unity of India. Christianity
>>> and Islam
>>> has historically spread through force, so their is virtually no
>>> chance of
>>> them succeeding everywhere in India unless they launch a traditional
>>> medieval crusade.
>>>
>>>
>>> Posted by: siyer79 | March 15, 2010 9:22 PM
>>> Report Offensive
>>> Comment<
>>> onfaith at washingtonpost.com?subject=On%20Faith%20Panelists%20Blog%20%20%7C%20%20siyer79%20%20%7C%20%20Missionaries:%20the%20good,%20the%20bad,%20and%20the%20ugly%20%20%7C%20%204824931&body=%0D%0D%0D%0D%0D================%0D?__mode=view%26_type=comment%26id=4824931%26blog_id=618
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Darn, my religion sucks and everyone is quitting and eroding my
>>> power, it
>>> must be cheating for other religions to steal my minions."
>>>
>>> No not really, Hinduism has been around for 5000 years, I have no
>>> doubt we
>>> will be around for the next 5000. Infact Christianity foundations
>>> are
>>> actually very weak today especially in Europe.
>>> There are many dangerous cults and Jesus Jihadi organizations out
>>> there,
>>> they will never be able to convert the vast majority of Hindus,
>>> but their
>>> goal is to convert just enough to start violent rebellions such as
>>> in
>>> Northeast India and destabilize the unity of India. Christianity
>>> and Islam
>>> has historically spread through force, so their is virtually no
>>> chance of
>>> them succeeding everywhere in India unless they launch a traditional
>>> medieval crusade.
>>>
>>>
>>> Posted by: siyer79 | March 15, 2010 9:21 PM
>>> Report Offensive
>>> Comment<
>>> onfaith at washingtonpost.com?subject=On%20Faith%20Panelists%20Blog%20%20%7C%20%20siyer79%20%20%7C%20%20Missionaries:%20the%20good,%20the%20bad,%20and%20the%20ugly%20%20%7C%20%204824930&body=%0D%0D%0D%0D%0D================%0D?__mode=view%26_type=comment%26id=4824930%26blog_id=618
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sounds like sour grapes to me. "Darn, my religion sucks and
>>> everyone is
>>> quitting and eroding my power, it must be cheating for other
>>> religions to
>>> steal my minions."
>>>
>>> Please... if people don't want to be in your religion, too bad for
>>> you.
>>>
>>> So the people get bribes (which make their lives better like free
>>> education,
>>> etc.) and then join a new church. Sounds like a big win for the
>>> guy who
>>> got
>>> bribed. After all, he can always quit and join another church.
>>>
>>> Posted by: ZZim | March 9, 2010 11:03 AM
>>> Report Offensive
>>> Comment<
>>> onfaith at washingtonpost.com?subject=On%20Faith%20Panelists%20Blog%20%20%7C%20%20ZZim%20%20%7C%20%20Missionaries:%20the%20good,%20the%20bad,%20and%20the%20ugly%20%20%7C%20%204823736&body=%0D%0D%0D%0D%0D================%0D?__mode=view%26_type=comment%26id=4823736%26blog_id=618
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regarding the Indian, Muslim emperor Aurangzeb, the Indian
>>> journalist
>>> Amulya
>>> Ganguli has said, "that most bigoted of all Mughal emperors, had
>>> once
>>> written to his underlings: ". . . information has reached our
>>> noble and
>>> most
>>> holy court that certain persons interfere and harass the Hindu
>>> residents
>>> of
>>> the town of Benaras and its neighbourhood and the Brahman keepers
>>> of the
>>> temples... Therefore, our royal command is that, after the arrival
>>> of this
>>> lustrous order, you should direct that, in future, no person shall
>>> in
>>> unlawful way interfere and disturb the Brahmans and other Hindu
>>> residents
>>> at
>>> these places, so that they may, as before, remain in their
>>> occupation and
>>> continue with peace of mind to offer prayers for the continuance
>>> of our
>>> god-gifted empire, so that it may last forever."
>>>
>>> Posted by: twforg | March 7, 2010 6:33 AM
>>> Report Offensive
>>> Comment<
>>> onfaith at washingtonpost.com?subject=On%20Faith%20Panelists%20Blog%20%20%7C%20%20twforg%20%20%7C%20%20Missionaries:%20the%20good,%20the%20bad,%20and%20the%20ugly%20%20%7C%20%204823296&body=%0D%0D%0D%0D%0D================%0D?__mode=view%26_type=comment%26id=4823296%26blog_id=618
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bin Laden was our guy till it became convenient to blame him for
>>> 9/11. If
>>> you still believe that version of 9/11, then you haven't done your
>>> research.
>>> See http://www.twf.org/911.html and if you wish to debate this I'm
>>> available.
>>>
>>> Enver Masud
>>> Founder, The Wisdom Fund
>>>
>>> Posted by: twforg | March 6, 2010 7:58 PM
>>> Report Offensive
>>> Comment<
>>> onfaith at washingtonpost.com?subject=On%20Faith%20Panelists%20Blog%20%20%7C%20%20twforg%20%20%7C%20%20Missionaries:%20the%20good,%20the%20bad,%20and%20the%20ugly%20%20%7C%20%204823260&body=%0D%0D%0D%0D%0D================%0D?__mode=view%26_type=comment%26id=4823260%26blog_id=618
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There are so many things to object to in this article, it would
>>> take a
>>> week
>>> to do them all.
>>>
>>> The Hindu violence against Christians in India, especially in the
>>> state if
>>> Orissa (sp), has been recent. It occurred, in part, because upper-
>>> cast
>>> hindus want to protect their power and they stir up lower-cast
>>> Hindus (who
>>> convert to Islam and Christianity in party because it's a way out
>>> for
>>> them)
>>> to kill Christians because they accepted "bribes" (education,
>>> healthcare,
>>> etc.) to convert -- whether that was the reason or not.
>>>
>>> The secularists, spreading their own "religions" (Communism,
>>> Naziism,
>>> Facism, etc.) have actually killed for more people than
>>> religionists have.
>>>
>>> Other types of religion do prosyletise, and that is why they have
>>> spread
>>> so
>>> much as well (Bhuddism comes immediately to mind -- and of course
>>> secularism).
>>>
>>> Furthermore, those who have railed against Christian prosyletising
>>> in this
>>> and related articles (especially if they are U.S. Christians)are
>>> also the
>>> ones who howl the most if we don't "prosyletise," i.e., if we do
>>> not speak
>>> or act against the evil in other societies (as well as our own).
>>> It's a
>>> "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation.
>>>
>>> I'm inclined to think that those who rail against prosyletising
>>> (religious
>>> or political) and accusing others of arrogance, hatred, etc.,
>>> should look
>>> in
>>> the mirror.
>>>
>>> Posted by: madoradataman | March 6, 2010 5:06 PM
>>> Report Offensive
>>> Comment<
>>> onfaith at washingtonpost.com?subject=On%20Faith%20Panelists%20Blog%20%20%7C%20%20madoradataman%20%20%7C%20%20Missionaries:%20the%20good,%20the%20bad,%20and%20the%20ugly%20%20%7C%20%204823202&body=%0D%0D%0D%0D%0D================%0D?__mode=view%26_type=comment%26id=4823202%26blog_id=618
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Truly well-written. Congratulations for highlighting a serious
>>> problem in
>>> many countries across this world.
>>>
>>> Posted by: Filibuster | March 5, 2010 10:39 AM
>>> Report Offensive
>>> Comment<
>>> onfaith at washingtonpost.com?subject=On%20Faith%20Panelists%20Blog%20%20%7C%20%20Filibuster%20%20%7C%20%20Missionaries:%20the%20good,%20the%20bad,%20and%20the%20ugly%20%20%7C%20%204822909&body=%0D%0D%0D%0D%0D================%0D?__mode=view%26_type=comment%26id=4822909%26blog_id=618
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PROSELYTIZATION is a manifestation of the SUPREMACIST foundation of
>>> Christianity & Islam.
>>>
>>> No one else has this serious flaw that Christians and Muslims have
>>> in
>>> their
>>> "religions" or spiritual systems. Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs,
>>> Zoroastrians,
>>> Jews, Wiccans, Animists, etc.. are all trying to make themselves
>>> better,
>>> not
>>> trying to undermine others.
>>> Conversion has caused some of the biggest problems in third world
>>> countries.
>>> The "charity" and "kind deeds" are insincere and deceptive
>>> actions, and
>>> therefore, are acts of evil.
>>>
>>> Muslims & Christians don't seem to get the basics of goodness and
>>> spirituality. Pretending to be good while having and ulterior
>>> motive fools
>>> no one and is an act of evil. This can lead to crusades and suicide
>>> terrorism.
>>> REMEMBER: Almost all religious conflicts in the world involve
>>> Muslims or
>>> Christians on one side or both.
>>> Sneakiness, deception, conversion, undermining other cultures,
>>> etc... is
>>> offensive and nonspiritual.
>>>
>>> You really feel the urge to do charity? Go to the inner city in
>>> America
>>> and
>>> help those in need. Look in your own family and help those who are
>>> depressed
>>> or drunk or angry.
>>> Stop going to 3rd world countries and causing problems & hurting
>>> others.
>>>
>>> Posted by: clearthinking1 | March 5, 2010 4:43 AM
>>> Report Offensive
>>> Comment<
>>> onfaith at washingtonpost.com?subject=On%20Faith%20Panelists%20Blog%20%20%7C%20%20clearthinking1%20%20%7C%20%20Missionaries:%20the%20good,%20the%20bad,%20and%20the%20ugly%20%20%7C%20%204822838&body=%0D%0D%0D%0D%0D================%0D?__mode=view%26_type=comment%26id=4822838%26blog_id=618
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> After reading this rather unbalanced diatribe on the evils of
>>> proselytizing,
>>> I am left to think that Lamb is engaging in a bit of proselytizing
>>> as
>>> well.
>>> He sounds like someone who hates Christians and Muslims.
>>>
>>> He overgeneralizes and oversimplifies a topic that is far too
>>> complex for
>>> him to condense into a few "sound bites" for this article.
>>>
>>> He often likes to portray Hindus as victims of the nefarious ways
>>> of the
>>> two
>>> religions he despises. But if you look through the annals of
>>> history,
>>> you'll
>>> see cases of Hindus persecuting both Muslims and Christians.
>>>
>>> Posted by: imterpsfan2 | March 4, 2010 10:49 PM
>>> Report Offensive
>>> Comment<
>>> onfaith at washingtonpost.com?subject=On%20Faith%20Panelists%20Blog%20%20%7C%20%20imterpsfan2%20%20%7C%20%20Missionaries:%20the%20good,%20the%20bad,%20and%20the%20ugly%20%20%7C%20%204822795&body=%0D%0D%0D%0D%0D================%0D?__mode=view%26_type=comment%26id=4822795%26blog_id=618
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Excellent article. Very well thought out and touches on very serious
>>> points.
>>>
>>> Posted by: WilliamHood | March 4, 2010 7:26 PM
>>> Report Offensive
>>> Comment<
>>> onfaith at washingtonpost.com?subject=On%20Faith%20Panelists%20Blog%20%20%7C%20%20WilliamHood%20%20%7C%20%20Missionaries:%20the%20good,%20the%20bad,%20and%20the%20ugly%20%20%7C%20%204822764&body=%0D%0D%0D%0D%0D================%0D?__mode=view%26_type=comment%26id=4822764%26blog_id=618
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Not just a fine philosophical essay but a commentary that provides
>>> concrete
>>> evidence of the ways and methods of proselytizers.
>>>
>>> Posted by: tarle_subba | March 4, 2010 6:34 PM
>>> Report Offensive
>>> Comment<
>>> onfaith at washingtonpost.com?subject=On%20Faith%20Panelists%20Blog%20%20%7C%20%20tarle_subba%20%20%7C%20%20Missionaries:%20the%20good,%20the%20bad,%20and%20the%20ugly%20%20%7C%20%204822747&body=%0D%0D%0D%0D%0D================%0D?__mode=view%26_type=comment%26id=4822747%26blog_id=618
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Magnificent writing and expose of these narrow-minded bigots who are
>>> masquerading as "men of God" and then engaging in relentless
>>> cheating,
>>> coercion, violence and deception.
>>>
>>> Posted by: Nparry | March 4, 2010 5:13 PM
>>> Report Offensive
>>> Comment<
>>> onfaith at washingtonpost.com?subject=On%20Faith%20Panelists%20Blog%20%20%7C%20%20Nparry%20%20%7C%20%20Missionaries:%20the%20good,%20the%20bad,%20and%20the%20ugly%20%20%7C%20%204822718&body=%0D%0D%0D%0D%0D================%0D?__mode=view%26_type=comment%26id=4822718%26blog_id=618
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> assam mailing list
>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> assam mailing list
>> assam at assamnet.org
>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
More information about the Assam
mailing list