[Air-l] Petition Tony Blair, online that is

Tue Nov 21 08:28:10 PST 2006

Hi Ildiko,

> Is this the pilot the Bundestag modelled on the e-petitioning system of
> the Scottish Parliament?

Yes, that's right. As far as the technology is concerned: The
Bundestag adopted the e-petitioner system that was developed by the
International Teledemocracy Center and first employed by the Scottish
Parliament (later also by Local Authorities in England: Kingston and
Bristol). But the similarities might stop beyond technology, e.g. the
Bundestag hasn't had a public hearing for public petitions yet while
that happens with almost all petitions in Scotland, as far as I know.

Best, Matthias

On 11/21/06, Ildiko Kaposi <pphkai01 at phd.ceu.hu> wrote:
> >>> "Matthias Trenel" <matthias.trenel at gmail.com> 11/21/06 3:33 PM >>>
> On a further note, which explains my interest in this issue, I want
> point you to the e-petitioning system at the German Parliament, which
> Zebralog is currently evaluating:
>
> Public Petitions at the German Parliament:
> Zebralog evaluates pilot project
> http://www.zebralog.de/en/000195.html
>
>
>
> Matthias,
>
> Is this the pilot the Bundestag modelled on the e-petitioning system of
> the Scottish Parliament?
>
> Ildiko
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Ildiko Kaposi <pphkai01 at phd.ceu.hu>
> Date: Nov 18, 2006 11:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [Air-l] Petition Tony Blair, online that is
> To: air-l at listserv.aoir.org
>
>
> Stephen,
>
> I believe Wainer's 'delight' was ironic at best, even sarcastic -
> precisely because he senses political spin behind the initiative.
>
> The more I learn about it, the more it seems like the site is an
> exercise in electronic populism. I thought the idea of
> push-button/point-n-click panacea for democracy was passe, but your
> government appears to think otherwise. It is hard to make predictions,
> but if this is an empty exercise, devoid of deliberation or obligations
> for the PM to take the petitions into consideration, it will probably
> not be a lasting success with British citizens.
>
> Ildiko Kaposi
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Stephen Coleman <S.Coleman at leeds.ac.uk>
> Date: Nov 18, 2006 10:33 AM
> Subject: [Air-l] Petition Tony Blair, online that is
> To: air-l at listserv.aoir.org
>
>
> I don't share Wainer Lusoli's apparent delight at the arrival of the
> Ten Downing Street e-petitions tool. From a political perspective, one
> might ask why citizens are being urged to petition the Prime Minister,
> when the UK's system of government is not presidential, but
> parliamentary. More significantly, this technology has been built so
> that people are only allowed to sign petitions, but not discuss them.
> Unlike the Scottish Parliament's e-petitions, public deliberation is
> prohibited. This leads to a narrow notion of democracy without
> discussion in which petitions can claim neither representative nor
> deliberative legitimacy. >From the perspective of internet research,
> this is an interesting illustration of how political design can
> undermine technical potential.
>
> Contrast this with the great tradition of political petitioning that
> has existed in Britain since the late thirteenth century. The
> Chartists of the mid-nineteenth-century  did not make a political
> impact by collecting signatures, but by holding mass meetings to
> discuss the cause of their petition. Imagine iif the Chartists - or
> the disarmament movement of the 1960s - had been allowed only to plead
> with the Prime Minister rather than assemble, deliberate and develop
> their own convictions.
>
> Citizens sending petitions via this new e-tool should be encouraged to
> subvert its intended restrictive use by setting up an alternative web
> space in which propositions can be openly discussed and revised.
>
> Stephen Coleman,
> Professor of Political Communication,
> Institute of Communications Studies,
> University of Leeds
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: W.Lusoli at lse.ac.uk <W.Lusoli at lse.ac.uk>
> Date: Nov 17, 2006 4:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [Air-l] Petition Tony Blair, online that is
> To: air-l at listserv.aoir.org
>
>
> Hi Ildico - thanks for this.
>
> well, a number of reasons really. First that the PM is a
> self-confessed technophobe; then because the Tories and Labour are
> waging an escalating war on who is reaching out more to the public
> using ICTs [Webcameron, Osborne, conservative blogs, Labour' new
> campaign space]; then because the website had 500 [500 !!] submissions
> in two days; then because it all looks soooo transparent, but is it;
> etcetera, etctera and etcetera once more.
>
> My eyes are now sore for the rubbing
>
> Cheers
>
> Wainer
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Ildiko Kaposi <pphkai01 at phd.ceu.hu>
> Date: Nov 17, 2006 3:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [Air-l] Petition Tony Blair, online that is
> To: air-l at listserv.aoir.org
>
>
> Wainer,
>
> What's the reason for your disbelief?
>
> I took only a cursory glance at the sight, so I'm not well-informed.
> First of all, I don't know what the online petitioning implies exactly,
> i.e. whether there are any obligatory consequences for the Right Hon.
> Blair or government policy. But online petitioning as such is practised
> elsewhere, and e-democracy has been something of a priority for the UK
> government, so this seems to fit the pattern.
> Am I misreading the initiative?
>
> Ildiko
>
>
> >>> "Wainer Lusoli" <w.lusoli at lse.ac.uk> 11/17/06 1:56 PM >>>
> http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/
>
> Still rubbing my eyes in disbelief
>
> Any thoughts, anyone?
>
> Wainer
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> Wainer Lusoli
> http://www.lusoli.info
> http://del.icio.us/lusoli
> http://www.i-pol.org
> --------------------------------------------
>
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