[Air-L] history of Plato's Phaedrus as example of moral / media panic?

[Charles M. Ess]

Yes, great - perfect.  But Postman (so far as I've read) doesn't use 
this as an example of moral panic in support of a larger argument 
against technology / technological usage of X.  On the contrary, he is 
careful to point out that the story includes arguments pro and con, and 
so is instructive for how debate in a technological society should proceed.

But perhaps this was a source for subsequent use in moral / media panic 
discourse?

again, thanks,
- c.

On 24/04/2019 19:33, Nathanael Bassett wrote:
> Neil Postman uses Phaedrus to start off his critique of technology in Technopoly (1992). not sure if he got the idea from elsewhere though.
> 
> Nathanael Bassett
> (sent via iPad)
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2019, at 12:02 PM, Jason Archer <jarche2 at uic.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Dr. Ess,
>>
>> The trope might stem from Nehamas and Woodruff's 1995 translation of
>> Phaedrus which includes a discussion in the introduction about interpreting
>> the section as "concerning the trustworthiness of a new and not yet
>> understood mode of communication in comparison to that of an accepted
>> medium" p. xxxvi. But that is only conjecture.
>>
>> Take care,
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 11:53 AM Thomas Ball <xtc283 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dr Ess-
>>>    This is a challenging query. One thing that might help orient potential
>>> respondents would be for you to cite one or two articles exemplifying
>>> "moral / media panics that
>>> consistently invoke Plato's _myth_ of the invention of writing."
>>>    As it is, we're left guessing what you have in mind.
>>> Thank you,
>>> Best regards,
>>> Thomas
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:37 PM Charles M. Ess <c.m.ess at media.uio.no>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear AoIRists,
>>>>
>>>> Please be kind and patient with me, recalling that my formal academic
>>>> training was in history of philosophy, German literature, and ancient
>>>> Greek.  I am comparatively still a little wet around the ears with
>>>> regard to media and communication studies - or so it seems in this
>>>> instance.
>>>>
>>>> I keep encountering discussions of moral / media panics that
>>>> consistently invoke Plato's _myth_ of the invention of writing.
>>>>
>>>> This seemingly standard invocation puzzles me greatly for a long list of
>>>> reasons.  I include a short list below for anyone with time and interest
>>>> in looking them over.
>>>>
>>>> The upshot is that I'm left wondering: who - and when - introduced what
>>>> has apparently become received tradition in these domains that the
>>>> mythos (see "2" below) of the invention of writing in the Phaedrus is a
>>>> prime or supportive example moral or media panic?
>>>>
>>>> This is, as they say in administration-speak, an appreciative inquiry.
>>>> I'm genuinely curious for the sake of better understanding how this
>>>> trope first appeared, etc - as well as genuine worried that I may have
>>>> somehow missed something that is considered elementary and obvious for
>>>> those of you with academic training more directly within media and
>>>> communication studies.
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks in advance for any enlightenment and eludation!
>>>> best,
>>>> - charles ess
>>>>
>>>> PS: The short list includes:
>>>> 1) the account is taken (bloody and screaming) out of the context of the
>>>> larger dialogue in the Phaedrus. When read within the larger context -
>>>> beginning with (the young) Phaedrus' effort to impress (perhaps seduce)
>>>> Socrates by memorizing a speech he has copied down on a scroll and
>>>> initially tries to hide from Socrates - the mythos works much more
>>>> immediately as a lightly veiled (and hence, pedagogically speaking,
>>>> likely more successful) chastisement of Phaedrus' efforts at
>>>> dissimulation.  By no means a wholesale critique of writing per se.
>>>> 2) The account is explicitly delivered as a _mythos_ - too easily
>>>> translated as a "myth." But: a _mythos_ in Plato is a technical /
>>>> philosophical form, going well beyond and in some ways directly
>>>> contradicting more everyday notions of "myth" as a false story; a mythos
>>>> is specifically an _oral_ story, with its own set of distinctive
>>>> strengths and limitations. It is often used in Plato when interlocutors,
>>>> attempting to pursue a reasoned argument (logos), come to an impass.
>>>> The relation between mythos and logos is hence often complementary, not
>>>> contradictory.
>>>> 3) It would seem very odd for an author of multiple dialogues, of
>>>> sometimes staggering sophistication and literary nuance, to sincerely
>>>> believe that writing is somehow an entirely suspect technology.
>>>> Different from orality, certainly, as is suggested by the consistent
>>>> presentation of Socrates as an oral teacher, the careful use of mythos
>>>> vs. logos, etc. - but hardly an example of media / moral panic.
>>>> And so on.
>>>> Again: what am I missing?
>>>>
>>>> Again, many thanks,
>>>> - c.
>>>> --
>>>> Professor in Media Studies
>>>> Department of Media and Communication
>>>> University of Oslo
>>>> <http://www.hf.uio.no/imk/english/people/aca/charlees/index.html>
>>>>
>>>> Postboks 1093
>>>> Blindern 0317
>>>> Oslo, Norway
>>>> c.m.ess at media.uio.no
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-- 
Professor in Media Studies
Department of Media and Communication
University of Oslo
<http://www.hf.uio.no/imk/english/people/aca/charlees/index.html>

Postboks 1093
Blindern 0317
Oslo, Norway
c.m.ess at media.uio.no