[Air-L] history of Plato's Phaedrus as example of moral / media panic?

Fri Apr 26 07:32:09 PDT 2019

Charles-
   Based on the empirical information from Google Ngrams, it would appear
that modern notions of moral and media panic were initiated by McLuhan in
his 1964 book, *Understanding Media.* It's around or shortly after that
date that these keywords explode into exponential or even superexponential
growth. While Havelock's book was first published in 1963, it's doubtful
that it could have had such widespread dissemination as to catalyze the
observed growth rate in these keywords. Moreover, Ong's book and theory was
a much later contribution to an already extant literature.
   Regardless, it's useful to suggest that Plato's ambivalence about
writing in the *Phaedrus* was a similarly late contribution. Those
historians who place the origins of writing to around 700 BC in Greece are
entirely missing the fact that there was an earlier, more than 3,000 year
old cuneiform civilization in Sumeria. This places into question any
theories linking temporal shifts in orality, chirometry, cognition, memory,
brain function, etc., to pre-Socratic Greece. In other words, why wouldn't
there be a similar shift occurring millennia before the Greeks? See Marc
Van De Mieroop's book, *Philosophy Before the Greeks: The Pursuit of Truth
in Ancient Babylonia*, for confirmation of these facts.
Best regards,
Thomas

On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 7:24 AM Ricardo Rohm <ricardorohm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Charles and Air-lists,
>
> Congrats for this insightful discussion! Really.
> This made me also think about one of the questions which concerns,
> ultimately, "who opened the box first".
> I do not know if this one might be the case, but in my life I have
> sometimes faced some so-called scientific discourses which seemed to be
> entitled with logical meaning, a valid argument or even deductively
> achieved by a plettora of "practical examples or personal experiences".
> Whatever.
> I have also come accross conclusions from reflexions, surveys and essays,
> which have been used strategically for important purposes, decision makings
> by governments and corporatios. Many of which have lead humanity to misery,
> war, suffering, and oppression: yes oppression!
>
>  Citing and refering to famous classical authors in the past ( and still
> nowadays) is an interesting habit which goes far beyond than a simpler
> meaning of well- established methodological procedures or even research
> designs. Beyond also a rhetoric concern or vanity. Indeed, and I repeat, -
> I do not know if the present case in the Air-l here discussed might be
> considered in my refkexion! -  I cannot avoid but keep wondering:
>
> To whom would it be useful and empowering to cast away important critics on
> new technologies, as well as, who "should" be spared of the so-called "weak
> and worthless critics",  once someone or some organization (and if
> science,.in general is considered, an Institution) decides that these
> critics might be nothing but some kind of moral or psychological disorder
> or malfunction ?
>
> On the other hand - (and I might share mine with many 😉 ) - what might
> motivate the curiosity towards "opening this box of Plato/Socrates" in the
> present moment?
> Yes, because this is the time when privacy ans other "boxes and caves seem
> to be vanishing" , intentionally produced disinformation is compromising
> democracy in many countries, and.so on and forth.
>
> In fact, I decided to share my own concerns here with you because, maybe,
> someone becomes intetested in producing some research or personal
> discussions at some future phisical venue, strengthening memory and bonds,
> instead of "writing or computing".
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ricardo Rohm
> Federal University of Rio de Janeiro
> (at) FAU - Erlangen- Nürnberg
>
>
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2019, 18:37 Charles M. Ess, <c.m.ess at media.uio.no> wrote:
>
> > Dear AoIRists,
> >
> > Please be kind and patient with me, recalling that my formal academic
> > training was in history of philosophy, German literature, and ancient
> > Greek.  I am comparatively still a little wet around the ears with
> > regard to media and communication studies - or so it seems in this
> > instance.
> >
> > I keep encountering discussions of moral / media panics that
> > consistently invoke Plato's _myth_ of the invention of writing.
> >
> > This seemingly standard invocation puzzles me greatly for a long list of
> > reasons.  I include a short list below for anyone with time and interest
> > in looking them over.
> >
> > The upshot is that I'm left wondering: who - and when - introduced what
> > has apparently become received tradition in these domains that the
> > mythos (see "2" below) of the invention of writing in the Phaedrus is a
> > prime or supportive example moral or media panic?
> >
> > This is, as they say in administration-speak, an appreciative inquiry.
> > I'm genuinely curious for the sake of better understanding how this
> > trope first appeared, etc - as well as genuine worried that I may have
> > somehow missed something that is considered elementary and obvious for
> > those of you with academic training more directly within media and
> > communication studies.
> >
> > Many thanks in advance for any enlightenment and eludation!
> > best,
> > - charles ess
> >
> > PS: The short list includes:
> > 1) the account is taken (bloody and screaming) out of the context of the
> > larger dialogue in the Phaedrus. When read within the larger context -
> > beginning with (the young) Phaedrus' effort to impress (perhaps seduce)
> > Socrates by memorizing a speech he has copied down on a scroll and
> > initially tries to hide from Socrates - the mythos works much more
> > immediately as a lightly veiled (and hence, pedagogically speaking,
> > likely more successful) chastisement of Phaedrus' efforts at
> > dissimulation.  By no means a wholesale critique of writing per se.
> > 2) The account is explicitly delivered as a _mythos_ - too easily
> > translated as a "myth." But: a _mythos_ in Plato is a technical /
> > philosophical form, going well beyond and in some ways directly
> > contradicting more everyday notions of "myth" as a false story; a mythos
> > is specifically an _oral_ story, with its own set of distinctive
> > strengths and limitations. It is often used in Plato when interlocutors,
> > attempting to pursue a reasoned argument (logos), come to an impass.
> > The relation between mythos and logos is hence often complementary, not
> > contradictory.
> > 3) It would seem very odd for an author of multiple dialogues, of
> > sometimes staggering sophistication and literary nuance, to sincerely
> > believe that writing is somehow an entirely suspect technology.
> > Different from orality, certainly, as is suggested by the consistent
> > presentation of Socrates as an oral teacher, the careful use of mythos
> > vs. logos, etc. - but hardly an example of media / moral panic.
> > And so on.
> > Again: what am I missing?
> >
> > Again, many thanks,
> > - c.
> > --
> > Professor in Media Studies
> > Department of Media and Communication
> > University of Oslo
> > <http://www.hf.uio.no/imk/english/people/aca/charlees/index.html>
> >
> > Postboks 1093
> > Blindern 0317
> > Oslo, Norway
> > c.m.ess at media.uio.no
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