[Air-L] Elon Musk & free speech

Tue Dec 6 16:30:48 PST 2022

I also think you could consider these laws in other countries. In Canada
hate speech has recently in the past few decades been added to exceptions
to freedom of expression. I don't think exporting the US constitution is
always a good way of going about spreading democracy. I have also looked at
Estonia's new constitution and seen privacy of medical records as a
constitutional right. But this sort of digresses from Internet studies.

I have not been using Twitter as much these past few weeks. I started a
mastodon account and check it every few days and add about a post a week.

As you know the network effect is probably how we ended up using Twitter.
May be three months from now statistics or studies will show Mastodon
having a network effect.

On Tue., Dec. 6, 2022, 7:06 p.m. Paul Levinson via Air-L, <
air-l at listserv.aoir.org> wrote:

> Thanks for the link to your article, Sky -- I found it enlightening in
> several ways.
>
> I will point out, however, two points in which we might not agree:  1.  As
> I mentioned in my Op-Ed, criminal activity was and is never protected by
> the First Amendment.  Although I gave only two examples in my short essay
> -- misleading info about Covid, and the storming of the US Capitol in
> January 2021 -- there of course are many other kinds of crimes that should
> not and would not be protected speech.  These certainly include
> harassment.  2.  You say the "marketplace of ideas" is inherently not
> equal.  No doubt that's true in practice -- and true of everything.  But
> it's worth pointing out that, in theory, the marketplace of ideas is
> supposed to provide equal access to all ideas.  Indeed, as I say in the
> op-ed, that's its raison d'etre.
>
> -- PL
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 6:10 PM Sky Croeser <scroeser at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > With some trepidation, I'm going to build on what Morten is saying to add
> > that "free speech", and the US Constitution, are not the only frameworks
> > that we might use to think through these ideas. Avoiding state repression
> > is important, but if all attempts to shape the spaces where we discuss
> and
> > deliberate are positioned as being somewhere along the line between
> > "censorship" and "free speech", we miss other important considerations.
> >
> > There are important questions that are not always best answered within
> > this framework, including:
> > * Who gets to speak, and who gets listened to?
> > * Who is safe speaking?
> > * Do the structures we build support constructive (or transformative, or
> > generative) dialogue, or conflict?
> > * What kinds of ideas and emotions spread through different systems we
> > build?
> >
> > These questions are worth asking not just about Twitter but also about
> > alternatives we're exploring, and I hope that we'll consider other
> > frameworks of thought beyond the liberal free speech framework.
> >
> > I've written more about this here:
> > https://adanewmedia.org/2016/10/issue10-croeser/
> >
> > And there's also a comic version! Available to print out at home and turn
> > into a booklet if you need a fun stocking stuffer!*
> >
> >
> https://medium.com/@nicolemarieburton/a-new-comic-that-challenges-us-to-reframe-our-notions-of-freedom-of-speech-and-freedom-in-84e1ecd1d1af
> >
> > *I'm joking please don't shout at me but please feel free to ask for a
> > printable version
> >
> > On Wed, 7 Dec 2022 at 6:44 am, Paul Levinson via Air-L <
> > air-l at listserv.aoir.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks for that, Morten.  I do make precisely that point -- the
> difference
> >> between government censorship and private organization content
> moderation
> >> -- in my Op-Ed.
> >>
> >> -- Paul
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 5:11 PM Morten Bay via Air-L <
> >> air-l at listserv.aoir.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Before this discussion goes any further (or off the rails), I have a
> >> small
> >> > request on behalf of those of us on the sidelines trying to learn from
> >> > people smarter than us:
> >> >
> >> > When we discuss these matters, can we please distinguish between
> >> > state-enforced censorship and oppression of free speech versus the
> >> > also-constitutionally protected rights to content moderation and
> >> editorial
> >> > decisions in privately-held media? Can we please also distinguish
> >> between
> >> > coercion and persuasion as expressions of power?
> >> >
> >> > I think that will generate a more nuanced and less polarized
> discussion
> >> to
> >> > everyone’s benefit.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks.
> >> >
> >> > Morten
> >> >
> >> > From: Air-L <air-l-bounces at listserv.aoir.org> on behalf of
> >> > andrew.lowenthal--- via Air-L <air-l at listserv.aoir.org>
> >> > Date: Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 12:23 PM
> >> > To: air-l at listserv.aoir.org <air-l at listserv.aoir.org>
> >> > Subject: Re: [Air-L] Elon Musk & free speech
> >> > It is truly breathtaking that the default position now in 'academia'
> is
> >> > one of free speech suppression...
> >> >
> >> > "Do we tolerate too much?" is asked... perhaps ask someone in
> Indonesia
> >> > who as of today can face jail criticising the president... anti-free
> >> > speech 'liberals' embolden authoritarians around the world.
> >> >
> >> > The fact that people are going in to bat for Big Tech for suppressing
> a
> >> > story about the Biden family dealings in Ukraine and China (to say
> >> > nothing of Hunter's predilections for cocaine and sex workers) is
> >> > astounding... how much lower can 'academia' sink?
> >> >
> >> > Interest in the actual truth is long gone, and liberals are just as
> >> > partisan as conservatives. Intellectuals who care nothing for party
> >> > tribalism are all but extinct (or at least very quiet).
> >> >
> >> > If you are interested in a different take you might like to try
> this...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://disinformationchronicle.substack.com/p/punching-down-how-the-anti-disinformation__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!pLw_tKTFjSSAtxATGWxuanoQRIYKVvbyLD3P8_3RIcPjNZ0n-w4tEZXzSg5l0_6urdJCF3ZqcEi1AcJ6Fg$
> >> > <
> >> >
> >>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/disinformationchronicle.substack.com/p/punching-down-how-the-anti-disinformation__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!pLw_tKTFjSSAtxATGWxuanoQRIYKVvbyLD3P8_3RIcPjNZ0n-w4tEZXzSg5l0_6urdJCF3ZqcEi1AcJ6Fg$
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > Best,
> >> > Andrew
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 12/6/22 20:51, Paul Levinson via Air-L wrote:
> >> > > just up on NBC News Think: my op-ed about Elon Musk and free speech
> >> > > <
> >> >
> >>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/elon-musks-twitter-files-trump-tweets-complicate-free-speech-rcna60322__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!pLw_tKTFjSSAtxATGWxuanoQRIYKVvbyLD3P8_3RIcPjNZ0n-w4tEZXzSg5l0_6urdJCF3ZqcEgnQAbu9Q$
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > -- PL
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > The Air-L at listserv.aoir.org mailing list
> >> > > is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers
> >> >
> >>
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> >> > <
> >> >
> >>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/aoir.org__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!pLw_tKTFjSSAtxATGWxuanoQRIYKVvbyLD3P8_3RIcPjNZ0n-w4tEZXzSg5l0_6urdJCF3ZqcEhPlpZETg$
> >> > >
> >> > > Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at:
> >> >
> >>
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> >> > <
> >> >
> >>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!pLw_tKTFjSSAtxATGWxuanoQRIYKVvbyLD3P8_3RIcPjNZ0n-w4tEZXzSg5l0_6urdJCF3ZqcEhFcrzoAw$
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Join the Association of Internet Researchers:
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
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> >> > <
> >> >
> >>
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> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > The Air-L at listserv.aoir.org mailing list
> >> > is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers
> >> >
> >>
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> >> > <
> >> >
> >>
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> >> > <
> >> >
> >>
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> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > Join the Association of Internet Researchers:
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
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> >> > <
> >> >
> >>
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> >> > >
> >> > _______________________________________________
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> >> > is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers
> http://aoir.org
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> >> >
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> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
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