[Assam] beef-eating in india -myth of Jesus, Muhhamad, Moses etc

Mon Jun 19 22:50:55 PDT 2006

Can't an atheist believe in his own God-less religion? Can't there be a
religion without God?
Well, not according to the definition of an atheist.
An atheist is "one who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods"
and someone belonging to any religion is someone "who has a belief in and
reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and
governor of the universe. "
(words in quotes from the dictionary)

So, unfortunately, one can't have it both ways.
But you did not answer my question:

"Does this pertain only to Hindu beliefs or does your theory also transcend
to other religions like Christianity, Islam and Buddhism?"

--Ram

On 6/20/06, Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>  >Barua -Are you an atheist or a believer of some religion ? :-)
>
> That is what I want to know. Can't an atheist believe in his own God-less
> religion? Can't there be a religion without God? I think even Hindusim does
> not believe in a Creator God since Hinduism does not believe that the
> Universe has an origin. The Hindu God (Brahma, Vishnu, Maheswara) is
> suborninate to Brahman. According to Rig Veda even God does not know how the
> Universe was created. Does it mean that a true Hindu who believe in the Rig
> Veda is actually an atheist?
>  RB
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
> *To:* Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> *Cc:* umesh.sh05 at post.harvard.edu ; xourov at yahoo.com ; assam at assamnet.org
> *Sent:* Monday, June 19, 2006 11:36 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Assam] beef-eating in india -myth of Jesus, Muhhamad,
> Moses etc
>
>
> Hehehe!
>
> There is absolutely no way to prove or disprove the existence of God or
> "genuine incarnations'
>
> And to the question of  "That they have not done that, shows that either
> there is no God or they were fake incarnations, and guys like you are trying
> their best to believe something which is not true."
>
> Does this pertain only to Hindu beliefs or does your theory also transcend
> to other religions like Christianity, Islam and Buddhism?
>
> I think, you are missing a very important ingredient of all religions: ie
> the concept of faith. All religions are based upon and survive on this
> concept.
>
> In Buddhism (some forms at least), for example, the existence of God is
> not there. So, then the question of course becomes, why do Buddhists believe
> in the Buddha, pray to him, celebrate him etc. After all he was just a man,
> and why should modern men, after so many centuries bow down to a celestial
> Buddha?
>
> One can well argue that him sitting under a tree for many years and
> attaining nirvana is all hog-wash - no human (from all we know) can perform
> such a feat, where termites and ants built mounds on the Buddha, let alone
> the concept of some claim to the attainment of "nirvana".
>
> I hope you are not trying to tell us some religions are better than
> others? Either one believes in a religion or not at all - I can accept that.
>
> Its a good possibility that there were atleast  "people" known as Ram &
> Krishna of Hinduism. You probably think their elevations to celestial beings
> are fake. If that is true, then so are Christ, Mohammad, and Buddha. True
> atheists would lay their belief systems on solid or scientific proof.
> Barua, I think you are trying very hard to place bets everywhere.
> Sometimes, you have to make a choice - Are you an atheist or a believer of
> some religion ? :-)
>
> --Ram
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 6/19/06, Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >  Umesh:
> >
> > Frankly speaking, I doubt if God will help you.
> >
> > If Rama and Krishna were genuine incarnations of God, they would have,
> > by  this time, established themselves firmly their positions against Western
> > Christian critics. That they have not done that, shows that either there is
> > no God or they were fake incarnations, and guys like you are trying their
> > best to believe something which is not true.
> >
> > What do you say? Do you think God is partial to Christianity?
> >
> > RB
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > From: *umesh sharma <jaipurschool at yahoo.com>*
> > Reply-To: *umesh.sh05 at post.harvard.edu*
> > To: *Rajen & Ajanta Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>, xourov pathok <
> > xourov at yahoo.com>, Ram Sarangapani < assamrs at gmail.com>*
> > CC: *assam at assamnet.org*
> >
> >
> > Subject: *Re: [Assam] beef-eating in india -myth of Jesus, Muhhamad,
> > Moses etc*
> > Date: *Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:12:16 +0100 (BST)*
> >
> >
> > well I agree to that.
> >
> > I need God's help again.
> >
> > after eating Chinese dish -which did not mention what was in it (i
> > avoided seafood -since my last attack in Jan-for same reasons perhaps
> > -though my students had eye flu too) I look Chinese too - eyes are mere
> > slits. The rashes have gone but breathing is still heavy .
> >
> > Umesh
> >
> > *Rajen & Ajanta Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>* wrote:
> >
> > This means the Hindus will haqve to do some homework to establish
> > historicity of Rama and Krsuhna. This does not mean they are all myth,
> > but
> > they have to prove otherwise.
> > Compare these to Jesus.
> > RB
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "xourov pathok"
> > To: ; "Ram Sarangapani"
> > Cc:
> > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 7:47 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Assam] beef-eating in india -myth of Jesus, Muhhamad,
> > Moses
> > etc
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- umesh sharma wrote:
> > >
> > >> Any comments about Mythical nature of Jesus, Moses
> > >> or Muhammad?
> > >> There is NO historical proof that any of the above
> > >> did any miraculous work to render them divine --like
> > >> resurrection of Christ, parting the waves crossing
> > >> the Red sea by Moses etc --yet despite the stories
> > >> circulating around them which defy human logic -they
> > >> are believed to have existed.
> > >
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
> > >
> > >
> > >> Why not about Ram or Krishna ( recently they have
> > >> even found an underwater city -adjacent Dwarka-
> > >> established by Krishna -as mentioned in Mahabharat
> > >> and other Hindu texts) -despite some
> > >> miraculous/illogical events?
> > >
> > > rama and krishna are given as much historicity as
> > > possible, according to the evidence. the underwater
> > > city they claim as dwarka is not confirmed. the
> > > problem is let alone dwarka, even hastinapur,
> > > indraprastha etc have not been properly identified.
> > > even though they have found settlements, they do not
> > > correspond to cities, let alone grand cities as
> > > depicted in the epics. this does not negate the
> > > possibility of a historical indraprastha, of course.
> > > it simply means we have not found it yet.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Umesh Sharma
> > 5121 Lackawanna ST
> > College Park, MD 20740
> >
> > 1-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]
> >
> > Ed.M. - International Education Policy
> > Harvard Graduate School of Education,
> > Harvard University,
> > Class of 2005
> >
> > weblog: http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > Now you can have your favourite RSS headlines come to you with the all
> > new Yahoo! Mail<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/uk/taglines/hotmail_com/nowyoucan/rss/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=40566/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html>.
> >
> >
> >
>

On 6/20/06, Barua25 <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>  >Barua -Are you an atheist or a believer of some religion ? :-)
>
> That is what I want to know. Can't an atheist believe in his own God-less
> religion? Can't there be a religion without God? I think even Hindusim does
> not believe in a Creator God since Hinduism does not believe that the
> Universe has an origin. The Hindu God (Brahma, Vishnu, Maheswara) is
> suborninate to Brahman. According to Rig Veda even God does not know how the
> Universe was created. Does it mean that a true Hindu who believe in the Rig
> Veda is actually an atheist?
>  RB
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
> *To:* Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> *Cc:* umesh.sh05 at post.harvard.edu ; xourov at yahoo.com ; assam at assamnet.org
> *Sent:* Monday, June 19, 2006 11:36 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Assam] beef-eating in india -myth of Jesus, Muhhamad,
> Moses etc
>
>
> Hehehe!
>
> There is absolutely no way to prove or disprove the existence of God or
> "genuine incarnations'
>
> And to the question of  "That they have not done that, shows that either
> there is no God or they were fake incarnations, and guys like you are trying
> their best to believe something which is not true."
>
> Does this pertain only to Hindu beliefs or does your theory also transcend
> to other religions like Christianity, Islam and Buddhism?
>
> I think, you are missing a very important ingredient of all religions: ie
> the concept of faith. All religions are based upon and survive on this
> concept.
>
> In Buddhism (some forms at least), for example, the existence of God is
> not there. So, then the question of course becomes, why do Buddhists believe
> in the Buddha, pray to him, celebrate him etc. After all he was just a man,
> and why should modern men, after so many centuries bow down to a celestial
> Buddha?
>
> One can well argue that him sitting under a tree for many years and
> attaining nirvana is all hog-wash - no human (from all we know) can perform
> such a feat, where termites and ants built mounds on the Buddha, let alone
> the concept of some claim to the attainment of "nirvana".
>
> I hope you are not trying to tell us some religions are better than
> others? Either one believes in a religion or not at all - I can accept that.
>
> Its a good possibility that there were atleast  "people" known as Ram &
> Krishna of Hinduism. You probably think their elevations to celestial beings
> are fake. If that is true, then so are Christ, Mohammad, and Buddha. True
> atheists would lay their belief systems on solid or scientific proof.
> Barua, I think you are trying very hard to place bets everywhere.
> Sometimes, you have to make a choice - Are you an atheist or a believer of
> some religion ? :-)
>
> --Ram
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 6/19/06, Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com > wrote:
> >
> >  Umesh:
> >
> > Frankly speaking, I doubt if God will help you.
> >
> > If Rama and Krishna were genuine incarnations of God, they would have,
> > by  this time, established themselves firmly their positions against Western
> > Christian critics. That they have not done that, shows that either there is
> > no God or they were fake incarnations, and guys like you are trying their
> > best to believe something which is not true.
> >
> > What do you say? Do you think God is partial to Christianity?
> >
> > RB
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > From: *umesh sharma <jaipurschool at yahoo.com>*
> > Reply-To: *umesh.sh05 at post.harvard.edu*
> > To: *Rajen & Ajanta Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>, xourov pathok <
> > xourov at yahoo.com>, Ram Sarangapani < assamrs at gmail.com>*
> > CC: *assam at assamnet.org*
> >
> >
> > Subject: *Re: [Assam] beef-eating in india -myth of Jesus, Muhhamad,
> > Moses etc*
> > Date: *Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:12:16 +0100 (BST)*
> >
> >
> > well I agree to that.
> >
> > I need God's help again.
> >
> > after eating Chinese dish -which did not mention what was in it (i
> > avoided seafood -since my last attack in Jan-for same reasons perhaps
> > -though my students had eye flu too) I look Chinese too - eyes are mere
> > slits. The rashes have gone but breathing is still heavy .
> >
> > Umesh
> >
> > *Rajen & Ajanta Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>* wrote:
> >
> > This means the Hindus will haqve to do some homework to establish
> > historicity of Rama and Krsuhna. This does not mean they are all myth,
> > but
> > they have to prove otherwise.
> > Compare these to Jesus.
> > RB
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "xourov pathok"
> > To: ; "Ram Sarangapani"
> > Cc:
> > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 7:47 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Assam] beef-eating in india -myth of Jesus, Muhhamad,
> > Moses
> > etc
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- umesh sharma wrote:
> > >
> > >> Any comments about Mythical nature of Jesus, Moses
> > >> or Muhammad?
> > >> There is NO historical proof that any of the above
> > >> did any miraculous work to render them divine --like
> > >> resurrection of Christ, parting the waves crossing
> > >> the Red sea by Moses etc --yet despite the stories
> > >> circulating around them which defy human logic -they
> > >> are believed to have existed.
> > >
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
> > >
> > >
> > >> Why not about Ram or Krishna ( recently they have
> > >> even found an underwater city -adjacent Dwarka-
> > >> established by Krishna -as mentioned in Mahabharat
> > >> and other Hindu texts) -despite some
> > >> miraculous/illogical events?
> > >
> > > rama and krishna are given as much historicity as
> > > possible, according to the evidence. the underwater
> > > city they claim as dwarka is not confirmed. the
> > > problem is let alone dwarka, even hastinapur,
> > > indraprastha etc have not been properly identified.
> > > even though they have found settlements, they do not
> > > correspond to cities, let alone grand cities as
> > > depicted in the epics. this does not negate the
> > > possibility of a historical indraprastha, of course.
> > > it simply means we have not found it yet.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Umesh Sharma
> > 5121 Lackawanna ST
> > College Park, MD 20740
> >
> > 1-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]
> >
> > Ed.M. - International Education Policy
> > Harvard Graduate School of Education,
> > Harvard University,
> > Class of 2005
> >
> > weblog: http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > Now you can have your favourite RSS headlines come to you with the all
> > new Yahoo! Mail<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/uk/taglines/hotmail_com/nowyoucan/rss/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=40566/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html>.
> >
> >
> >
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.assamnet.org/pipermail/assam-assamnet.org/attachments/20060620/f36a34c7/attachment.htm>