[Assam] Army admits to torture - IANS/Gulf News

[Ram Sarangapani]

C'da,

>** Ram offers the excuse that the Indian Army goes about torturing >and
murdering Assam civilians at will, armed with the no-holds->barred AFSPA
carte'-blanche, because ULFA does that too, as he >asserts.

I didn't say that the Indian army goes about torturing etc. - but many
obviously believe that (and they may know more). I think, any time an army
is on the scene, there is every potential for things going wrong.
The intent here is very important. The army has been placed by the civilian
authorities. It is a machine of brute force, and very often the soldiers
placed in a situation like Assam, have no clue whether anyone they encounter
is an ulfa cadre or not. The ulfa very defly mix in with the local
population, and an army given orders to get rid of ulfa cadres goes about
(often) killing or beating up innocent individuals.
My point was that if Assam DID NOT have an insurgency problem, there would
have been no army, and thus no attrocities by the army.

The ulfa (and its supporters) on the one hand want the insurgency to
continue unabated - where many innocent(not army personnel)people are
killed, but from the other side of the mouth, they cry foul, and want the
army out of Assam. In essence, they want to give the ulfa a free hand in
committing attrocities on the people.

The common people are often caught in between. The too don't want an army
presence, but nor do they want an ulfa presence.

So, can you answer this:
Will the ulfa stop killings and extortions if the army is withdrawn from
Assam? No, you can't answer that. The ulfa needs a free hand, doesn't it?

For a moment - let us forget that India is a democracy and let us assume it
is rotten to the core and is phony, and that it will NEVER give in to ulfa's
demands for sovereignity. In that scenario, what is the practical solution
for Assam?

The ulfa, being of Assamese origin, may be the only party that people of
Assam can appeal to  - to seek a peaceful solution, and not kill and
extort the Assamese. Given your position and what you think of the Indian
govt. machinery, do you think you have a ghost of a chance convincing such a
Govt. to keep to the sidelines while ulfa continues its rampage.

That is why, the more this continues, the worse it is for Assam - any way
you look at it.

--Ram





On 10/17/06, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>  If we are examining logic then it is very easy to see that both Rajib and
> Ram are spinning around in circular logic.
>
>
> ** Ram offers the excuse that the Indian Army goes about torturing and
> murdering Assam civilians at will, armed with the no-holds-barred AFSPA
> carte'-blanche, because ULFA does that too, as he asserts. And since ULFA
> has not shown any indication of disappearing over a quarter century, in
> spite of all the weekly pronouncements of its imminent demise, we can only
> assume that Indian Army's
> tyranny over the people of Assam must continue by this logic.
>
>
> If that is the state of Indian 'liberal democracy' ( which unfortunately
> has always been--and actually worse--if we take a more comprehensive look at
> it), then this whole argument about building Assam's hopes within an Indian
> 'liberal democracy' will be phonier than a three rupee note.
>
>
>
>
> ** Rajib argues that '*since ULFA goes about murdering innocent civilians'
> *, the reason for which they took up arms --- to free Assam from Indian
> misrule and tyranny, among others --- their alternative should not be
> considered at all.( Note how in this argument the little issue of
> DEGREES--as in the number of civilian deaths attributable to ULFA and the
> number of civilian torture, disappearance and deaths attributable to Indian
> Army,  conveniently disappears.)
>
>
> Thus according to Rajib, Indian misrule and tyranny over Assam ought to
> continue and Assam ought to take it lying down ( since redress thru the
> dysfunctional desi-demokrasy's institutions have never been available, and
> without comprehensive reforms will never materialize).
>
>
>
>
> You go figure which is worse!
>
>
>
>
> The thinking person therefore should ask the following questions:
>
>
> IF India, the much touted 'liberal-democracy' it supposedly is, and is
> even remotely effective, what has it produced to eradicate the causes that
> gave rise to the insurgency to begin with?
>
>
> IF it has done things, what are they, and how come over the decades the
> Assamese and regional disaffections have only widened, now to over thirty
> insurgencies, instead of abating?
>
>
> AND, if nothing or little have been done, WHY SO?
>
>
>
>
> The answers to these could lead to pin-pointing the problems and solution
> scenarios explored.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 7:54 PM -0700 10/16/06, Rajib Das wrote:
>
> Taking C-da's logic forward a bit...
>
> So if indeed the ULFA is killing innocent civilians,
> it and its liberated Assam as an alternative is not
> worth contemplating. After all why at all go from the
> devil to the bad blue sea?
>
> If the alternative is equally bad or worse, logic says
> you do not consider that alternative at all.
>
>
>
> > *** For the sake of arguments, let me agree that
> > everything you are
> > charging here is in fact the truth and nothing but
> > the truth. But how
> > does that give he Indian army the license to go kill
> > and maim
> > innocent Oxomiyas, like the army had to fess up to
> > in the news report
> > you posted?
> >
> > Are you suggesting, that since the ULFA is bad, they
> > kill innocent
> > people, so the Indian army has no choice but to have
> > an open season
> \> on innocent Oxomiyas and continue to perpetrate the
> > kind of brutality
> > they  did on Ajit Mahanta or Saikia??
> >
> > Is that India's 'liberal democracy' all about? Is
> > that the kind of
> > democracy Manmohan Singh sings the praises of and
> > proclaims "There is
> > nothing that cannot be resolved thru democracy?" And
> > is AFSPA the
> > standard-barer of that desi-demokrasy?
> >
> >
> > >Wouldn't have known if you hadn't told us. But they
> > do make lofty
> > >promises for >a sonor Oxom!
> >
> > *** That was a sarcastic comment on my part Ram. It
> > was to underscore
> > the hypocrisy of desi-demokrasy which pegs its
> > integrity and
> > accountability on the rag-tag group of insurgents
> > who never had a
> > chance to help establish the institutions of state
> > and a rule of law
> > that India has flouted since the beginning of
> > desi-time in Assam :-).
>
> >
> >
> > >One thing is certain, the army problem wouldn't
> > exist, if the ulfa
> > >wasn't >running loose.
> >
> > *** Really? Try telling that to the Sentinel, which
> > told quite
> > clearly how the Indian army had used the NE as its
> > very own private
> > fiefdom long before ULFA came to be, and thus helped
> > spawn ULFA.
> >
> >
> > >Given the bad experience with armymen running loose
> > in the
> > >countryside and >their wanton killings (from what
> > you tell us),
> >
> >
> > *** I tell you that Ram ? That is from your favorite
> > newspaper :-).
> > Anyway, you don't have to listen to anything I say
> > or the Sentinel
> > writes about. What is YOUR assessment of it? What do
> > YOU believe?
> >
> >
> > >wouldn't it then be prudent for the ULFA, which
> > claims to be the
> > >savior of the >Assamese to seek some peaceful
> > solution or
> > >alternatively, just give up.
> >
> > *** Of course it would be Ram. Why should the Indian
> > army or the
> > Indian Owners  the NE people's lands and its
> > inhabitants relent?
> > After all, they are their colony ain't it,  handed
> > down as India's
> > 'poitrik-xompotty' ( ancestral inheritance)?
> >
> > But the experience of a quarter century tells me
> > that such wishes are
> > not very realistic. What do you think? Is it going
> > to happen? And
> > failing which it would justify the Indian army's
> > open season on its
> > people?
> >
> >
> > >I know, this sounds harsh, but if the ulfa is
> > claiming to save
> > >Assam, shouldn't >Assamese lives be very important
> > to them (ie.
> > >being killed by the Indian army, >as you say).
> >
> > *** No doubt such an attempt at blackmailing would
> > help those whose
> > aim is to keep Assam safe to be exploited by India.
> > But what are the
> > chances of that happening?
> >
> >
> > >Whatever the struggles and aspirations, can Assam
> > afford a zero-sum game?
> >
> > *** Question is HOW India, the beacon of
> > 'liberal-democracy', could
> > even think of using the people of Assam as pawns, as
> > expendable
> > sacrifices, in its quest to hold on to the
> > real-estate of Assam, to
> > hell with the people that calls it home?
> >
> > Can you explain that Ram :-)?
> >
> > c-da
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >Sorry, C'da - they are NOT the idealistic 'freedom
> > seekers' any
> > >more. Their actions speak a lot more. Now, very few
> > know what they
> > >are actually fighting for. To think that they are
> > fighting for an
> > >Assamese homeland is a far-fetched as it can be.
> > >
> > >  > A: I don't know that ULFA has been running a
> > 'liberal democratic'
> > >  >       government, waving the banners of the
> > rule of law.
> > >
> > >Wouldn't have known if you hadn't told us. But they
> > do make lofty
> > >promises for a sonor Oxom!
> > >
> > >  > Finally, if the Indian state cannot do any
> > better than what is
> > >  >       conveniently attributed to ULFA, why do
> > you folks hold it up as
> > >   >      the epitome of virtue, while  demonizing
> > ULFA ? Isn't that, at the
> > >    >     very least, demeaning to your deity ?
> > >
> > >No one is holding up the Indian army as virtuous.
> > One thing is
> > >certain, the army problem wouldn't exist, if the
> > ulfa wasn't running
> > >loose. As bad as you make them out to be, there are
> > cases when they
> > >are brought to book when they go haywire.
> > >Given the bad experience with armymen running loose
> > in the
> > >countryside and their wanton killings (from what
> > you tell us),
> > >wouldn't it then be prudent for the ULFA, which
> > claims to be the
> > >savior of the Assamese to seek some peaceful
> > solution or
> > >alternatively, just give up. I know, this sounds
> > harsh, but if the
> > >ulfa is claiming to save Assam, shouldn't Assamese
> > lives be very
> > >important to them (ie. being killed by the Indian
> > army, as you say).
> > >Whatever the struggles and aspirations, can Assam
> > afford a zero-sum game?
> >
> === message truncated ===>
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