[Assam] PC Ram found dead
Chan Mahanta
cmahanta at charter.net
Sun Jul 1 09:46:30 PDT 2007
Ram:
You have been fooling us all these years--now we know! You must have
been a political science major. How else would you know all the
answers to those impossibly hard questions I posed, hoping to
deliver the coup-de-grace to you guys' arguments :-).
>I know, C'da... these look like grand flip-flops. But terrorists
>ought to know by now that countries do >that.
*** Really? But I doubt they do. After all they are 'Terrorists',
aren't they?
Question I have however is whether WE do? I mean, on the face of it,
wee have to assume YOU do, because you spelled it out right here.
Seeing is believing, right?
But I wonder. Correct me if I am wrong here Ram, if we do know then
how come we make these arguments based on labels assigned by people
who are known to flip-flop: One day a terrorist, the next a long lost
brother.
Does it seem like something an informed and analytically able person
will do? I can see how those who are good at collecting the
information ( desis being masters at it, like I say walking
encyclopedias) but are unsure about how to use them might. Or those
whose primary function is to indulge in propaganda might.
But should we?
> >
> >Most of all, if India is a civilized nation with a rule of laws,
>why should the >Assamese living in Hindi speaking states be afraid?
>
>For the most part, most Indians (as I stated earlier) will not go
>about hunting other Indians (read >Assamese here) because of this
>killing or another.
*** I am relieved. But what about those like Muslims ( Gujarat,
Mumbai) or Sikhs ( post-IG killing), dalits ( since eternity) ?
Perhaps they are 'terrorists'', not Indian enough?
c-da
At 9:40 AM -0600 7/1/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>C'da
>
> >But WHO determines who should be given that label of 'terrorist'
>or '>criminal'?
>
>Unfortunately, it is the country that the terrorists are dealing with.
>
> >Is it an ABSOLUTE standard, or is it something that varies,
>depending on >the convenience of those who apply that label?
>
>It is entirely up to the country, and of course it is a matter of
>convenience. If terrorists can choose their sweet time when to act
>as terrorists or when to act as regular citizens, why can't country
>do so?
>
> >Ronald Reagan declared the former Soviet Union the Evil Empire.....
>
>I know, C'da... these look like grand flip-flops. But terrorists
>ought to know by now that countries do that. One way may be to get
>off that list is to play ball.
>
>
>> >I think you fail to understand what serious repercussion such
>>incidents can invite to Assamese people living in other Hindi
>>speaking states of India.
>>Imagine an Assamese student/family being assaulted, killed in
>>Gaziabad. Who do you think will come to protect them?
>>
>
> >*** First of all, let us assume for a moment that the news that
>you posted >is accurate.
>
>First of all, I did NOT write the above. JS did - so I will let him
>answer you .
>
>But, I would like weigh in a bit here.
>
>Is the "NEWS" true or false? The AT also had a report. But then that
>too is a rag (at least by your standards).
>
>Should one wait for the ULFA to decide whether they should say "yes" or "no"?
>I guess we should - get the truth from the horses mouth, so to speak. :)
>
>Now, on the other part - about Assamese being in danger in other
>parts of the country.
>IMHO, they are NOT and will NOT be. But then I will have to leave it
>people who actually live in these other parts of India.
>
>I think, one will find, that in other cities - usually the big
>cities or the metros, no one has time nor the inclination to form a
>posse to hunt down Assamese here and there. But have heard Biharis
>attacking people from the NE in trains.
>
> >Most of all, if India is a civilized nation with a rule of laws,
>why should the >Assamese living in Hindi speaking states be afraid?
>
>For the most part, most Indians (as I stated earlier) will not go
>about hunting other Indians (read Assamese here) because of this
>killing or another.
>
>But you, on the other hand, are free to condemn all Indians, their
>democracy, their history and even their civilization if one army man
>goes haywire.
>
> >Why I ask is that this particular rag has a track record of
>publishing rumors >as facts. I will await further info. on it before
>*I* make my judgement.
>
>Hehe! I knew that - That is WHY, I took care only to mention
>Terrorists and NOT any particular group. I am waiting for the
>"official" word.
>
>I am not sure why you are so sensitive...... "baator kosu
>..............." :) :)
>
>My discussion was entirely on whether countries should keep an
>option open for talks with those who they label as "terrorists".
>
>IMHO, as long as the label sticks (and it is convenient for them
>:)), countries ought to take a stand and not negotiate. That
>actually may be a good solution for many countries, including India.
>
>BTW: both China/Russia are ruthless when dealing with their
>terrorists, and there is NOT a Peep from any one!
>
>--Ram
>
>
>
>On 7/1/07, Chan Mahanta
><<mailto:cmahanta at charter.net>cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> >One does not negotiate with terrorists and criminals.
>
>
>'
>*** Really? Maybe so. But WHO determines who should be given that
>label of 'terrorist' or 'criminal'? Can another terrorist or
>criminal apply it on somebody else ? Is it an ABSOLUTE standard, or
>is it something that varies, depending on the convenience of those
>who apply that label?
>
>
>
>
>Take for example the case of Fatah. For decades Israel, the USA etc
>have called them TERRORISTS and treated them as such, killing them,
>imprisoning them. But right now both Israel and the US are embracing
>Fatah as the good folks. What gives? Convenience? A good ploy to
>cement the rift between Fatah and Hamas, both politically as well
>as geographically?
>
>
>Ronald Reagan declared the former Soviet Union the Evil Empire. But
>as as soon as the Communist regime fell, Russia became a friend.
>George Bush went to meet Putin, the former spook, looked into his
>eyes and saw his heart and declared it was in the right place.
>
>
>Mandela was declared a terrorist both by South Africa as well as by
>Dick Cheney and his cronies, was imprisoned for decades. But now he
>is considered a great statesman.
>
>
>Menachem Begin, the past Israeli PM, was declared a TERRORIST by the
>British. Later he was re-labeled a freedom- fighter and was accorded
>the veneration of a head of state.
>
>
>So, one needs to look at the source from where these labels come
>and judge them accordingly.
>
>
>Should we accept Jyoti Sharma's or Ram Sarangapani's labels as the
>ultimate truths?
>
>
>Take a wild guess.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> >I think you fail to understand what serious repercussion such
>>incidents can invite to Assamese people living in other Hindi
>>speaking states of India.
>>Imagine an Assamese student/family being assaulted, killed in
>>Gaziabad. Who do you think will come to protect them?
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>*** First of all, let us assume for a moment that the news that you
>posted is accurate. We will get to that later. EVEN if it is true
>that PC Ram was killed by ULFA or whoever, does that make ALL
>Assamese GUILTY of the crime? Is that how Indian Civilization
>works? And IF that is the SOURCE of applying such labels to ULFA
>or whoever, what is the VALUE of such labels?
>
>
>Furthermore, if ALL Assamese are to be considered criminals by all
>these fine Indians, WHY only the Hindi speaking ones? Why not
>Tamils, Telegus, Kannadas, Bengalis, Malayalis? Don't they have
>empathy for the Hindi speaking victims?
>
>
>Most of all, if India is a civilized nation with a rule of laws, why
>should the Assamese living in Hindi speaking states be afraid? Will
>you be afraid in Autralia, because Indian Hindu terrorists burnt the
>Aurstralian missionary , his wife and children alive? Can't the
>Assamese in Hindi speaking states depend upon equal protection of
>the great Indian democracy?
>
>
>Or is that great Indian democracy is a myth? That it is really
>ruled by terrorists of various kinds, as is amply demonstrated by
>recent events all across India?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Well now that Army operations will be on a full scale let's see
>how long it takes PCG to come out of >hibernation. Or has the PCG
>been dismissed and another one formed by Mamoni?
>
>
>*** That is certainly NEWS. I had no idea that the army has not
>been operating in 'full scale'. What triggers full-scale operations
>rumored killing of high Indian officials only?
>
>
>Also I had no idea that the PCG or Mamoni had been hiding. Even
>if they were, if the army goes on a rampage killing innocents,
>should they remain silent as a penance for PC Ram's rumored
>killing?
>Is this some kind of a higher civilizational rung that only Indians
>have reached , and if the PCG is not there yet, they can be fair
>objects of ridicule and taunts from such intellectual titans as
>Jyoti Sharma?
>
>
>
>
>*** Finally the veracity of PC Ram's death from ULFA: Is this a
>Telegraph scoop or is it a verified fact?
>Why I ask is that this particular rag has a track record of
>publishing rumors as facts. I will await further info. on it before
>*I* make my judgement.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 11:12 AM +0800 7/1/07, Jyotirmoy Sharma wrote:
>
>>>**** Why don't you tell us? Educate us?
>>>
>
>One does not negotiate with terrorists and criminals.
>
>I think you fail to understand what serious repercussion such
>incidents can invite to Assamese people living in other Hindi
>speaking states of India.
>Imagine an Assamese student/family being assaulted, killed in
>Gaziabad. Who do you think will come to protect them?
>
>
>Well now that Army operations will be on a full scale let's see how
>long it takes PCG to come out of hibernation. Or has the PCG been
>dismissed and another one formed by Mamoni?
>
>JS
>
>On 01/07/2007, at 10:42 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote:
>
>>>Does the govt still need to talk with such groups? If yes, then
>>>about what? I don't see Mr Bush sitting down with the Al-Qaeda
>>>leaders to discuss Iraq or Mr Putin discussing Russia's future
>>>with Cechen rebels. Why should India/Assam be any different?
>>>
>
>
>
>
>**** Why don't you tell us? Educate us?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 9:25 AM +0800 7/1/07, Jyotirmoy Sharma wrote:
>
>><http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070701/asp/frontpage/story_7999536.asp>http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070701/asp/frontpage/story_7999536.asp
>>
>>This incident and several others like these make me ashamed to say
>>that I am an Assamese. The ULFA and their cahoots have done
>>irreparable damage to Assam and Assamese. How does the ULFA
>>sympathizers spin this story now? Did they gain anything out of
>>this? Yes - scared the hell out of potential domestic and foreign
>>investors, tourists. Our boys and their intellectual colleagues
>>have done their very best to make Assam a Taliban country.
>>
>>Does the govt still need to talk with such groups? If yes, then
>>about what? I don't see Mr Bush sitting down with the Al-Qaeda
>>leaders to discuss Iraq or Mr Putin discussing Russia's future with
>>Cechen rebels. Why should India/Assam be any different?
>>
>>JS
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>assam mailing list
>><mailto:assam at assamnet.org>assam at assamnet.org
>><http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>assam mailing list
><mailto:assam at assamnet.org>assam at assamnet.org
><http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.assamnet.org/pipermail/assam-assamnet.org/attachments/20070701/97f9ad82/attachment.htm>
More information about the Assam
mailing list