[Assam] Math First: Harvard & UVa study on college science success

Mon Jul 30 22:52:56 PDT 2007

Mridul-da,

You make good points. Have you seen the movie "Ek Doctor ki maut" based on an Indian researcher in 80s who commites suicide when his govt supervisor takes creit for the vaccine he had developed = I think it was by Pankaj Kapoor - I saw i while a college student at Delhi Univ - in the hostel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ek_Doctor_Ki_Maut

But this is a new era - global opportunities...

Umesh

Mridul Bhuyan <mridul_mb at yahoo.com> wrote: Dear Umesh & Dilip Da,

  Personally, I feel Engineers are best of the lot. They are very analytical in approach and they can catch up anything very fast, manage everything with care and an engineer has the capability to run a company very successfully with or without an MBA degree. However, in India, they are one of the most mis-utilised lot.

  Umesh, in response to your mail regarding BHEL, as I have pointed out to Uttam earlier, there are some public sector units such as NTPC, POWERGRID, BHEL.... who are doing excellent even with their limited resources. However, their performance could have reached greater heights had their workforce had high moral. The majority of engineers are doing the similar type of jobs all through-out their life without any special incentive. There is hardly any difference in treatment (incentivewise) between a creative one and others. Even if you wish to use your  creativity, you are not encouraged to use it. What these PSUs are achieving, it is because of some stupid (:)) sincere engineers, who are indifferent towards any incentive and thinks that it is their duty towards the country.

  In private sector, the scenario is that the majority of engineers are always under pressure to perform. The output expected from you by your employer is without any limit. You sometimes wish, you had two brains and four hands. They have to sacrifice their personal lives, which is affecting the mentalities of those hard-pressed people in a very bad way. The end result you see is irritation on slightest provocation, unhappy family life, indifference towards social life, alchoholism etc. etc.

  I have written quite a long mail. Bye for now.

  Regards

  Mridul

umesh sharma <jaipurschool at yahoo.com>  wrote:
  Mridul-da,

Hmmm I can see where the anti-entrepreneurship attitude is leading to.  Perhaps you have heard that engineers are also becoming CEOs  --IITians  have become phonemal  investmant bankers -helped by the fact that not only they are good number crunchers but alo they understand engineering companies better . You might have heard of one Rajat Gupta who was an IITian , Harvard MBA and lead McKinsey -a company which is into "bania" like activities.

Umesh

Mridul Bhuyan <mridul_mb at yahoo.com> wrote:    Dear Dilip Da,

  My regards to you. Yes, I live in Gurgaon, in India.

  In private sector, all the big names like Reliance, AREVA,  ABB, SIEMENS, Crompton Greaves... etc are employing engineers but not because they need them all, but due to the fact thay are available at a cheaper price. The call centres are also hiring engineers because they are available at the same price tag as that of an BA/BSc/B.Com. Being in Gurgaon, I have come across about 10/12 engineers from Assam (from our kharkhoowa engineering colleges), who are working in the call centres such as American Express, citibank etc. In call centres of Wipro, IBM, DELL... finding engineers is understandable, however, I doubt what type of specialist jobs they are doing, which can't be handled by a software programmer. Recently, I met one first class mechanical engineer from AEC (that too with very high scores), working in American Express, doing customer service. Let's talk about our great 'Bania' Company Reliance Energy (Engaged in distribution of power in portion of Delhi). They
 would've employed the cheapest available non-technical manpower,  had it not been for the high voltage circuit breakers, transformers, they have to handle. But they are now recruiting engineers only for almost all category of jobs except for finance, because the supply is abundant. You can get a fresh engineer for Rs.3.0 lakhs per annum, but a MBA costs almost twice that amount. They transform the Engineer to an excellent manager with their bania expertise.:). So, tell me how creativity comes in to the picture. As pointed out by Uttam, Private sector is all about acquiring max. ouput with minimum cost. Hope, the picture is clearer now.

  Regards

  Mridul

Dilip/Dil Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com> wrote:
    Mridul,
  How does it shake out if you draw a line between the public and private sectors? If the private sector also  is employing engineers just for the sake of providing employment or because there is a position open for an engineering degree holder, then there is a big problem. 
  I don't know whether you live in India or not. I'd like to hear how it is in the Indian private sector.
  Dilip Deka

Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
        At 10:04 PM -0700 7/29/07, Mridul Bhuyan wrote:
  As far as engineers employed in India, I am not sure if being creative or not makes any difference. Regarding most of the engineering jobs in India, except in a few cases, I am not sure, if Engineers are required at all :)      Mridul Bhuyan  

  **** You are sooo right Mridul!

  What our NRI friends can't quite deal with is the realities of India. They need to keep up those appearances, NOT because they  do not know, but it is from their own personal insecurities about who or what they identify with.

  c-da

Dilip/Dil Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com> wrote:
  Umesh,  Not every engineer needs to be creative. However every engineer should be good in math,  just to survive in the field. The design engineers need to know what is behind the softwares they use now a days to solve engineering problems.  There are functions in engineering where a person can contribute without being creative in the real sense of the word. I have spent 30+ years in the field, including management of engineers, I should know something about engineers by now.  A request to engineers in India - please speak up.  Dilipda

umesh sharma <jaipurschool at yahoo.com> wrote:
  C-da,

But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at high school levele - not at an engineering college.

***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other fields,  but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an ability or have the aptitude to develop it

Umesh

Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
  At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
  Netters with interest in science will find this article interesting. Math is used in all sciences, so obviously good fundamental knowledge in math helps students in all branches of science. A good grasp of math in high school helps engineering students as well, across the board.

  *** And that is exactly why it is so essential to have a sound primary education where math fundamentals  take root or die. If you look at the percentage of students in Assam who have a  decent knowledge of math fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in science, technology etc.  
  But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an ability or have the aptitude to develop it .  

  Dilip
        ==================================================================

umesh sharma <jaipurschool at yahoo.com> wrote:
  http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/science_07262007.html

Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C.

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)

www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )

http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/

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Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C.

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. -  International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)

www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )

http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/    
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Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C. 

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International  Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)

www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )

http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/    
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Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C. 

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)

www.gse.harvard.edu/iep  (where the above 2 are used )

http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/

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