[Assam] Math First: Harvard & UVa study on college science success
Chan Mahanta
cmahanta at charter.net
Tue Jul 31 06:12:36 PDT 2007
*** It all points to a failure, or absence, of leadership.
At 10:42 PM -0700 7/30/07, Mridul Bhuyan wrote:
>Dear Umesh & Dilip Da,
>
>Personally, I feel Engineers are best of the lot. They are very
>analytical in approach and they can catch up anything very fast,
>manage everything with care and an engineer has the capability to
>run a company very successfully with or without an MBA degree.
>However, in India, they are one of the most mis-utilised lot.
>
>Umesh, in response to your mail regarding BHEL, as I have pointed
>out to Uttam earlier, there are some public sector units such as
>NTPC, POWERGRID, BHEL.... who are doing excellent even with their
>limited resources. However, their performance could have reached
>greater heights had their workforce had high moral. The majority of
>engineers are doing the similar type of jobs all through-out their
>life without any special incentive. There is hardly any difference
>in treatment (incentivewise) between a creative one and others. Even
>if you wish to use your creativity, you are not encouraged to use
>it. What these PSUs are achieving, it is because of some stupid (:))
>sincere engineers, who are indifferent towards any incentive and
>thinks that it is their duty towards the country.
>
>In private sector, the scenario is that the majority of engineers
>are always under pressure to perform. The output expected from you
>by your employer is without any limit. You sometimes wish, you had
>two brains and four hands. They have to sacrifice their personal
>lives, which is affecting the mentalities of those hard-pressed
>people in a very bad way. The end result you see is irritation on
>slightest provocation, unhappy family life, indifference towards
>social life, alchoholism etc. etc.
>
>I have written quite a long mail. Bye for now.
>
>Regards
>
>Mridul
>
>umesh sharma <jaipurschool at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Mridul-da,
>
>Hmmm I can see where the anti-entrepreneurship attitude is leading
>to. Perhaps you have heard that engineers are also becoming CEOs
>--IITians have become phonemal investmant bankers -helped by the
>fact that not only they are good number crunchers but alo they
>understand engineering companies better . You might have heard of
>one Rajat Gupta who was an IITian , Harvard MBA and lead McKinsey -a
>company which is into "bania" like activities.
>
>Umesh
>
>Mridul Bhuyan <mridul_mb at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Dear Dilip Da,
>
>My regards to you. Yes, I live in Gurgaon, in India.
>
>In private sector, all the big names like Reliance, AREVA, ABB,
>SIEMENS, Crompton Greaves... etc are employing engineers but not
>because they need them all, but due to the fact thay are available
>at a cheaper price. The call centres are also hiring engineers
>because they are available at the same price tag as that of an
>BA/BSc/B.Com. Being in Gurgaon, I have come across about 10/12
>engineers from Assam (from our kharkhoowa engineering colleges), who
>are working in the call centres such as American Express, citibank
>etc. In call centres of Wipro, IBM, DELL... finding engineers is
>understandable, however, I doubt what type of specialist jobs they
>are doing, which can't be handled by a software programmer.
>Recently, I met one first class mechanical engineer from AEC (that
>too with very high scores), working in American Express, doing
>customer service. Let's talk about our great 'Bania' Company
>Reliance Energy (Engaged in distribution of power in portion of
>Delhi). They would've employed the cheapest available non-technical
>manpower, had it not been for the high voltage circuit breakers,
>transformers, they have to handle. But they are now recruiting
>engineers only for almost all category of jobs except for finance,
>because the supply is abundant. You can get a fresh engineer for
>Rs.3.0 lakhs per annum, but a MBA costs almost twice that amount.
>They transform the Engineer to an excellent manager with their bania
>expertise.:). So, tell me how creativity comes in to the picture. As
>pointed out by Uttam, Private sector is all about acquiring max.
>ouput with minimum cost. Hope, the picture is clearer now.
>
>Regards
>
>Mridul
>
>Dilip/Dil Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Mridul,
>How does it shake out if you draw a line between the public and
>private sectors? If the private sector also is employing engineers
>just for the sake of providing employment or because there is a
>position open for an engineering degree holder, then there is a big
>problem.
>I don't know whether you live in India or not. I'd like to hear how
>it is in the Indian private sector.
>Dilip Deka
>
>Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>At 10:04 PM -0700 7/29/07, Mridul Bhuyan wrote:
>
>>As far as engineers employed in India, I am not sure if being
>>creative or not makes any difference. Regarding most of the
>>engineering jobs in India, except in a few cases, I am not sure, if
>>Engineers are required at all :)
>>
>
>
>Mridul Bhuyan
>
>
>
>
>**** You are sooo right Mridul!
>
>What our NRI friends can't quite deal with is the realities of
>India. They need to keep up those appearances, NOT because they do
>not know, but it is from their own personal insecurities about who
>or what they identify with.
>
>
>c-da
>
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>>
>>Dilip/Dil Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>Umesh,
>>
>>Not every engineer needs to be creative. However every engineer
>>should be good in math, just to survive in the field. The design
>>engineers need to know what is behind the softwares they use now a
>>days to solve engineering problems.
>>
>>There are functions in engineering where a person can contribute
>>without being creative in the real sense of the word. I have spent
>>30+ years in the field, including management of engineers, I should
>>know something about engineers by now.
>>
>>A request to engineers in India - please speak up.
>>
>>Dilipda
>>
>>umesh sharma <jaipurschool at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>C-da,
>>
>>But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at
>>high school levele - not at an engineering college.
>>
>>***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of
>>itself, does not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One
>>can do well in the academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just
>>as engineers, but in a lot of other fields, but real engineering
>>also requires creativity -- something Indian engineering schools
>>rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an ability
>>or have the aptitude to develop it
>>
>>Umesh
>>
>>Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
>>
>>>Netters with interest in science will find this article
>>>interesting. Math is used in all sciences, so obviously good
>>>fundamental knowledge in math helps students in all branches of
>>>science. A good grasp of math in high school helps engineering
>>>students as well, across the board.
>>>
>
>
>*** And that is exactly why it is so essential to have a sound
>primary education where math fundamentals take root or die. If you
>look at the percentage of students in Assam who have a decent
>knowledge of math fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in
>science, technology etc.
>
>
>But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself,
>does not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do
>well in the academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just as
>engineers, but in a lot of other fields, but real engineering also
>requires creativity -- something Indian engineering schools rarely
>help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an ability or have
>the aptitude to develop it .
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>>Dilip
>>
>==================================================================
>
>umesh sharma <jaipurschool at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/science_07262007.html
>
>Umesh Sharma
>
>Washington D.C.
>
>1-202-215-4328 [Cell]
>
>Ed.M. - International Education Policy
>Harvard Graduate School of Education,
>Harvard University,
>Class of 2005
>
>http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)
>
>http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)
>
>
>
>
>www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )
>
>
>
>
>http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
>
>
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>Umesh Sharma
>
>Washington D.C.
>
>1-202-215-4328 [Cell]
>
>Ed.M. - International Education Policy
>Harvard Graduate School of Education,
>Harvard University,
>Class of 2005
>
>http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)
>
>http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)
>
>
>
>
>www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )
>
>
>
>
>http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
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>Umesh Sharma
>
>Washington D.C.
>
>1-202-215-4328 [Cell]
>
>Ed.M. - International Education Policy
>Harvard Graduate School of Education,
>Harvard University,
>Class of 2005
>
>http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)
>
>http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)
>
>
>
>
>www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )
>
>
>
>
>http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
>
>Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail -
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