[Assam] kosi: blunder after blunder

Mon Sep 8 07:35:20 PDT 2008

I've to meet some dead-line. So, I have to be cryptic for the time being. Still, I will like to have a go at it.

>>>>>>"Second things first:
Second, education imparted here have not churned 
out real 'puzzle-solvers' or 'problem-solvers' in the >field of 
technology except the file-pushers.

*** That is an excellent point-- and there is a lot of truth to it. 
But NOT all the truth.  These same people who are NOT trained to be 
problem-solvers can and do go out elsewhere in the world and do turn 
into able problem-solvers.

So where is the disconnect?  What is missing from the equation?"

Answer: There are people like Ramanujan, who come out of their own, the education system notwithstanding. In the west, especially in the US, those people are admitted( into institution of learning )from country like ours who may not have spectacular marks to show, but their works during the academic career and teachers' assessment. They undergo a reorientation and face the pressure of performing. Those who join jobs direct, I suppose, undergo change and adapt well into the working conditions there. Those who cannot, I believe, perish. In here, second-handers earn more, climb the social ladders with mere clouts and do not have to perform. The socio-economic relations are shaped that way; and a deeper probe may damage any chance of you and me going to work from the same platform. So let us skip that part, because we need a CMP (common minimum program) like the one devised by the last Indian coalition:-)

>>>>>"At first, it may be that a solution is not really desired by the 
'state' and other vested interests.
*** If we look into what the 'state' is, we will find that  it is 
after all made up of people like you and I. Why would we not want a 
solution?  Or is there a catch here?
Same thing holds true for the  evil 'vested interests'.  Ultimately 
they too are people.  Also there is no place on earth which is free 
from 'vested interests'. Yet many societies have gone on to learn how 
to get things done.
What is the problem with India?"

Answer: To me,  'State' is not persons like you and I. There lies the difference in perception. I surely do not want to delve into that for reasons stated earlier. For me 'State' itself is a complex formed of Economic, social and political relations within a given sphere. It's expression/ manifestation is somewhat like, say, the nation. You cannot place your finger on some particular characteristics to say that these represent the'State'. People like you and I merely constitute a government, may be. Now a days, some people also speak of the 'Deep State'. I feel, you have missed one point raised by me: "If the interests of the Emperor and its servants were at stake that coincided with us vermins, proper attempts at solving the puzzle with proper mathematical models and strategies, engineering skills and political will would have been more than visible." No doubt my point is somewhat squashed, but I want to say that if there was "coincidence" of the
 interest of the people and the "state ", some good might have happened. There are many instances in India's recent history: from Pl-480 to somewhat self-sufficiency in food.

As regards the rest, I suppose, we already have a CMP:-)

Uttam Kumar Borthakur

----- Original Message ----
From: Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
To: assam at assamnet.org; WaterWatch at yahoogroups.com
Cc: cmahanta at charter.net; hiren.gohain at gmail.com
Sent: Monday, 8 September, 2008 6:57:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] kosi: blunder after blunder

Second things first:

>Second, education imparted here have not churned 
>out real 'puzzle-solvers' or 'problem-solvers' in the >field of 
>technology except the file-pushers.

*** That is an excellent point-- and there is a lot of truth to it. 
But NOT all the truth.  These same people who are NOT trained to be 
problem-solvers can and do go out elsewhere in the world and do turn 
into able problem-solvers.

So where is the disconnect?  What is missing from the equation?

>At first, it may be that a solution is not really desired by the 
>'state' and other vested interests.

*** If we look into what the 'state' is, we will find that  it is 
after all made up of people like you and I. Why would we not want a 
solution?  Or is there a catch here?

Same thing holds true for the  evil 'vested interests'.  Ultimately 
they too are people.  Also there is no place on earth which is free 
from 'vested interests'. Yet many societies have gone on to learn how 
to get things done.

What is the problem with India?

>I do not see any immediate economic necessity on their part to do so.

*** Now we are heading somewhere.  Those who are in charge of things 
don't have any particular need to get off their rear ends and get 
something done, perform . That is accountability.  But everybody 
talks of accountability--or more precisely  the absence of it.  How 
can that be exacted? Why is no one held accountable?

Should this not be explored? Considering that we have heard of this 
problem too for decades, how come no one has attempted to find out 
why there is no accountability or how to introduce it?  Have you seen 
much discussion about it? If not why? And if yes--what has been 
proposed and put in place? If put in place, is it working?

>It is entirely true that despite incessant debates, mud-slinging, 
>analyses, discussions we are yet to formulate an acceptable model 
>for the solution of the problems at hand. At first, it may be that a 
>solution is not really desired by the 'state' and other vested 
>interests. Second, education imparted here have not churned 
>out real 'puzzle-solvers' or 'problem-solvers' in the field of 
>technology except the file-pushers. Third, supposed models for 
>solutions are tainted with vested interests of the developed areas 
>at the cost of the hinterlands. If the interests of the Emperor 
>and its servants were at stake that coincided with us vermins, 
>proper attempts at solving the puzzle with proper mathematical 
>models and strategies, engineering skills and political will would 
>have been more than visible. I do not see any immediate economic 
>necessity on their part to do so. Else, people here would have 
>to stand on their own, our bright minds should try some
>  original thinking to use whatever local resources and political 
>manouevers that we can muster to counter the problems: as they say' 
>raije nokh jukarile noi boi'.  Uttam Kumar Borthakur ----- Original 
>Message ---- From: Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> To: No Reply 
><notify-dg-WaterWatch at yahoogroups.com>; WaterWatch at yahoogroups.com 
>Cc: hiren.gohain at gmail.com; assam at assamnet.org Sent: Sunday, 7 
>September, 2008 11:29:28 PM Subject: [Assam] Blunder after 
>Blunder--WHY? Nomoskar Gohaindeu and welcome. It is nice to see 
>another voice from Assam and a highly regarded one at that. Sure 
>glad to see you attempted to answer the question I posed.  But I 
>must say we are still at pointing to symptoms. The causes, I am 
>afraid, remain more deeply embedded and will need much more digging. 
>And surely they won't be summarizable in a short and sweet 
>paragraph. Why I persist in pursuing the point is that over a decade 
>of my observing Indian intelligentsia's many discussions and 
>attempts at analyzing and pinpointing the causes of the national 
>angst, I have not yet seen anyone going down to looking at the 
>fundamentals. Why I don't know.  But I have seen people getting 
>defensive or doggedly resisting admitting what stares one in the 
>face from my experiences in assamnet.  I just hope this is a more 
>mature forum and able membership will not hesitate to challenge 
>itself into looking at the mirror without the proverbial tinted 
>glasses or getting defensive. Our people deserve no less. What is a 
>better cause than to explore the impediments to finding effective 
>solutions to what bedevils the lives of lakhs of your kin and mine 
>like the coming of seasons ? 
>cm >________________________________________________________________________ >8. 
>Re: kosi: blunder after blunder >    Posted by: "Dr Hiren Gohain" 
>hiren.gohain at gmail.com >    Date: Sat Sep 6, 2008 9:35 pm 
>((PDT)) > >India has done in space research etc.what even certain 
>advanced  Western >countries have failed to do.That required not 
>only  intellectual brilliance >but also  good planning and 
>organisation.The same people fail dismally in >looking after its own 
>people  and coming to the rescue of people  hit by >disaster.Why?A 
>question of priority of rulers.People's concerns in this >socioety 
>are  accorded low priority.Governance has become a vast network 
>of >vested interests and corruption,not because officials are 
>inefficient but >because governance is  nerely the  cover for  other 
>class-driven >pursuits.Hiren Gohain. > > >On 9/6/08, Chan Mahanta 
><cmahanta at charter.net> wrote: >> >>    > > Can you suggest 
>operational steps? >>  > >May be GoI and GoB should conduct a joint 
>session with civil engineers, >>  >dam experts and other relevant 
>people. >> >>  ****Perhaps the operational steps should be suggested 
>by the experts >>  who promote them. No? >> >>  > >May be GoI and 
>GoB should conduct a joint session with civil engineers, >>  >dam 
>experts and other relevant people. >> >>  ****Call me a cynic, but I 
>am quite amused by the thought. Don't >>  they do that already? Have 
>they not been doing that for decades and >>  with their combined 
>intellectual prowess and technological ingenuity >>  ( forgive my 
>sarcasm) been causing what they have? >> >>  It does not take a 
>whole lot of savvy to know why Indian governance >>  does not 
>work--never did and as it stands will never do. But the >>  thought 
>expressed clearly indicates that the awareness is missing >> 
>here. >> >>  Not that nobody knows why it is so. Right here, in this 
>forum, this >>  governmental dysfunction has been detailed by people 
>with first hand >>  knowledge. But it takes a little effort to read, 
>understand and take >>  note. >> >>  Unfortunately when we are so 
>immersed in our own righteousness and >>  certitude, backed up by 
>information collection skills we are so adapt >>  at and so proud 
>of, it is not hard to imagine how we are reduced to >>  citing what 
>the west does as the ultimate argument ; never mind the >> 
>realities of India. >> >>  But it is not too late. One can begin to 
>try to understand WHY >>  Indians are unable to do what other have 
>been doing routinely for >>  centuries, in spite of its huge 
>information reservoir ( I am >>  purposely avoiding a term like 
>'knowledge' or 'skill' here--because >>  information possession , 
>the ability to cite chapter and verse of >>  what others might have 
>written or said or done is not wisdom, not >>  even knowledge and 
>does not necessarily translate to an ability to >  > perform). >> >> 
>What is it about India that prevents it from solving the humblest 
>of >>  problems, never mind the big ones? >> >>  Can our best take 
>that on? Perhaps if we can put our fingers on it , >>  we can begin 
>to find ways to deal with it. Surely the Institutions >>  of higher 
>learning has not done that. Just look at all the brilliant >> 
>graduates of IITs, IIMs,IIMSs' taking the world by a storm but are 
>of >>  no consequence at home. >> >>  Why? >> >  cm 
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