[Assam] assam Digest, Vol 44, Issue 23 - About the name Assam
kamal deka
kjit.deka at gmail.com
Wed Mar 18 07:45:57 PDT 2009
Who is acting as a barrier for Mr. Saleh in becoming a historian ?I just
don't get it.
On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 11:31 PM, uttam borthakur <
uttamborthakur at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> I agree with Dilip Da. No body has monopoly over a subject. As Alvin
> Toffler had put it, the professionals made themselves appear to be
> indispensable. In so far as I know Copernicus was a cleric, yet his
> perseverance with things astral has provided humanity with invaluable
> insight into movements of the heavenly bodies. A person like Saleh Da, who
> has been trained in problem solving and scientific methodologies, cannot be
> debarred from becoming a historian or even an historiographer simply because
> he did not go for a sometimes redundant degree in history. As we have seen,
> he has already unearthed hitherto obscure facts. We should extend
> wholehearted support in his endeavour. Did the historians of Ahom age have
> such university degrees? I do not remember about the educational
> qualification of Benudhor Sarma, probably he was not even a graduate.
>
> Uttam Kumar Borthakur
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dilip and Dil Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com>
> To: wahid.saleh at gmail.com; A Mailing list for people interested in Assam
> from around the world <assam at assamnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, 17 March, 2009 10:32:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [Assam] assam Digest, Vol 44, Issue 23 - About the name
> Assam
>
> Mr. Saleh,
>
> You said, " All I did was to search for available information in
> publications (in English and other languages) and
> compile the information and publish an article to show that the name Assam
> was not given by the British. The name existed before the British came to
> Assam."
>
> Your interest in the subject and the time you spent in the research should
> be appreciated by all who are somewhat interested in Assam's history. In the
> above paragraph, you have also made it very clear that your goal was to show
> that other outsiders (other than the British) also called today's Oxom as
> Assam or something similar.
> I do not believe you wanted to get into the debate over whether the name
> Assam (or something similar) came first, or Oxom. As we have seen in this
> debate and elsewhere, it will be very hard to pinpoint when the name Oxom
> came into being. Dr. Yasmin Saikia in her research concluded that a name for
> the Ahom kingdom does not appear in the Buranjis remaining today. As we
> know a large number of Buranjis were burnt under the care of Kirti Charan
> Barbarua. There may be some hiding in some village in Assam. Who knows?
>
> I personally feel deeper research has to be done into Bodo language and
> folk-literature to see if the root of the word Oxom can be found.
> I asked a question a few days ago - who gave the name Ahom to the Tai group
> and why did the Tai people so willingly accepted it?
> No one has answered it.
>
> Again, thanks for your dedication to things Assamese.
> Dilip Deka
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Wahid Saleh(GM) <wahid.saleh at gmail.com>
> To: assam at assamnet..org
> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:01:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [Assam] assam Digest, Vol 44, Issue 23 - About the name Assam
>
> >>I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
> >>Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with
> >>his newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
> >>laughter-evoking buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>
> It was not my intention to confront others. All I did was to search for
> available information in publications (in English and other languages) and
> compile the information and publish an article to show that the name Assam
> was not given by the British. The name existed before the British came to
> Assam.
>
> In my search for information on this subject I contacted persons who knew
> about Indian, Dutch, English and Portuguese histories, did research and
> published papers and books in their respective fields. They were based in
> Australia, Bangladesh, Iran, India, the Netherlands, Portugal, Vietnam,
> Thailand, UK and USA. Most of them are considered to be authorities in
> their
> respective fields. I also did some research on Marco Polo and Huen Tsang to
> find out if they mentioned the name Assam in their travel journals.
>
> During this process I stumbled upon the fact that the person named Glanius
> who is mentioned by several well-known historians did not accompany Mir
> Jumla and also never visited Assam. I also published an article on the same
> subject.
>
> We all have the freedom to accept the mentioned books/publications as
> historical documents or reject them totally.
>
> I quoted Prof. Priyam Goswami from a news item published by Times of India
> (26-02-06) with the title "Assam to fall off the map, turn Asom" as Mr.
> Deka
> wanted explanations from someone competent authority.
>
>
> >I remain unconvinced.
> >In the fitness of thing,the entire matter ought to be left for those,who
> are in the business of reading,analyzing and interpreting the nitty-gritty
> >historical facts and data.
> >I refuse to accept the interpretation put forward by Saleh/Barua as an
> >unshakable truth.
> >As far as I am concerned,their explanation is of no consequence,pending
> full verification by the competent ones.
> >Meanwhile,those self-proclaimed neo-historians should stop the tamasha of
> >re-writing and re-interpreting facts in regard to Assam's
> >history,who,perhaps,haven't studied the subject seriously save high-school
> >history :-)
>
> Mr. Amalendu Guha and Kalika Purna were quoted by Mr. Deka and my reply was
> only in reference to the said quotes.
>
> Both Prof Goswami and Mr. Guha wrote within the framework of information
> available to them. This does not mean that they are "buffons". They are
> contributing their own way to the knowledge of the society. In and outside
> their academic circle they are respected academicians. We may agree with
> them or reject their arguments without using some adjectives which they
> don't deserve.
>
> Wahid Saleh
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: assam-bounces at assamnet.org [mailto:assam-bounces at assamnet.org] Namens
> assam-request at assamnet.org
> Verzonden: dinsdag 17 maart 2009 7:30
> Aan: assam at assamnet.org
> Onderwerp: assam Digest, Vol 44, Issue 23
>
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of assam digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: About the name Assam (Choudhary, H. N. - AMW - MUM)
> 2. Of Wearing Suits and their Side-effects - Kalyan
> Dutta-Choudhury, The Sentinel (Ram Sarangapani)
> 3. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
> 4. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
> 5. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
> 6. Re: About the name Assam (Chan Mahanta)
> 7. Re: About the name Assam (Rajen & Ajanta Barua)
> 8. Re: About the name Assam (Rajen & Ajanta Barua)
> 9. Re: About the name Assam (Rajen & Ajanta Barua)
> 10. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
> 11. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
> 12. Fragmented Memories: Struggling to be Tai-Ahom in India - by
> Yasmin Saikia (Dilip and Dil Deka)
> 13. Re: Fragmented Memories: Struggling to be Tai-Ahom in India -
> by Yasmin Saikia (Babul Gogoi)
> 14. Sanskrit and Assamese (Alpana B. Sarangapani)
> 15. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
> 16. Web site of the "Adinor Sambad" (Buljit Buragohain)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:59:07 +0530
> From: "Choudhary, H. N. - AMW - MUM" <HNChoudhary at amwasia.com>
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
> To: "A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
> world" <assam at assamnet.org>
> Cc: rc2559 at columbia.edu
> Message-ID:
> <C277F575BBB7F54B9DB20593FACB611003A415 at amwbkcexch.amwasia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dear All,
>
>
>
> Having read the mails and communications on the subject "about the name
> of Assam",
>
> I feel that the debate on the subject has become acrimonious and
> somewhat personal.
>
> No one can clam fame to become a historian overnight by writing an
> article on a historical topic. It is also not appropriate to call them
> "neophyte historians" as they may not deserve the accolade.
>
>
>
> If I have to give my comments on the following remarks:
>
> "There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
> educated intellectuals with different agendas."
>
>
>
> -- I will like to reserve my comments.
>
>
>
> Please exercise restraint and caution on commenting poorly on the whole
> of Assam or Assamese people.
>
> Your geographical location outside Assam (in USA or elsewhere) does not
> confer the right to make un-parliamentary
>
> comments on the people in Assam.
>
> These are sensitive issues.
>
>
>
> I am a recent addition to the group.
>
> I have served for many years in the Army and now in an Indian corporate.
>
>
> Having he advantage to experienced the best traditions of our culture
> and a mix of British culture,
>
> I could suggest that views and opinions need not "hurt" anyone. Please
> show tolerance.
>
> If we follow that in the Friends of Assam, we will remain friends.
>
>
>
> I request both parties to cool off.
>
> There is too much heat at the moment.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Col Hemen N Choudhary
>
> W Sea Face
>
> Mumbai
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: assam-bounces at assamnet.org [mailto:assam-bounces at assamnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Rajen Barua
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: assamnet
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
> research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
> without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
> article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based
> on his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> There are
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
> problem.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Rajen Barua
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
>
> > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
>
> > To: assam at assamnet.org
>
> > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>
> >
>
> > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
>
> > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with
> his
>
> > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
> laughter-evoking
>
> > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>
> > KJD
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > assam mailing list
>
> > assam at assamnet.org
>
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> assam mailing list
>
> assam at assamnet.org
>
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
>
>
> DISCLAIMER:
> Sample Disclaimer added in a VBScript.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:24:16 -0500
> From: Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Assam] Of Wearing Suits and their Side-effects - Kalyan
> Dutta-Choudhury, The Sentinel
> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
> world <assam at assamnet.org>
> Message-ID:
> <6e564ddf0903161424p5482b16es190baf547c7cd65d at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Netters,
>
> Kalyan da writes well, and I kind of like this piece. Reminds me of Gandhi,
> "Imitating the English Gentleman" which we had at high school, where Gandhi
> declares
> "And Mr. Bell rang the bell of Alarm in my ears, and I awoke" after he felt
> guilty asking money from back home for his elocution and music lessons in
> London.
>
> "The head tailor there was called masterji. When he was called, he showed
> up
> at the front desk with a measuring tape coolly around his neck and the two
> ends of it dangling. He talked sparingly because he knew his business. Any
> professional person who talks to his or her clients doesn?t know his or her
> profession." - K DC
>
> This is just precious. I remember going for my first job interview at
> Guwahati.. Didn't have a suit, so I borrowed a jacket from a friend -
> similar
> shade. But the jacket was a size smaller. So, I used the next best option -
> slung the jacket over my shoulders - to look hip, and make it look like it
> was my suit.
>
> --Ram
> _______________
>
> *Kalyan Dutta-Choudhury
>
> *A television programme showed men?s suits selling for upwards of, get this
> incredible story, forty three thousand dollars. No, the suits weren?t made
> of gold or titanium or any other precious metal. They were regular woollen
> suits but the wool came from some animals grazing in some kind of grass
> which grew in cool highlands of South America. The interviewer sported a
> high-priced suit of that kind of lineage but he didn?t look any different
> than when he was wearing his regular suit of approximately of same colour
> and texture. But that?s purely my judgement.
> Then, what is the hype about paying forty three thousand dollars for a
> suit?
> That lies in the psychology of buying at one end, and selling at the other
> end, of the business enterprise. The buyer may be a craven soul like Barney
> Madeoff who made his money by bilking others, but how the seller, in right
> conscientiousness, could sell the high-priced suits? They are made of the
> same mould. They feed off each other?s depravity.
> A relative of ours went to France, of many other places, for a visit to see
> how things were different up there. It seemed he made lots of money. Who
> doesn?t make money in Assam? Only fools don?t. Looking around in Paris, he
> found a tailoring shop which made suits. Asking for the price of a suit, he
> was shocked to learn the price of suits ? way too high. With that kind of
> money, he quickly calculated using his handy pocket calculator: ??I could
> make two pairs of suits with heavier clothing at Mohini?s in Guwahati.??
> That?s what he did. The suits were a bit ill-fitting and out of style. But
> who cares about good fit and style in the non-suit domain like Guwahati!
> It?s the quality of clothing that matters.
> In the late 50s and early 60s, there was a veritable mania of wearing suits
> to look cool. All kinds of grants and scholarships made that possible. If
> you were a student at Assam Engineering College in those heady
> ?engineering?
> days, and you the poor soul didn?t have a nice pair to wear to go to
> Gauhati
> in the evenings, you were so out of style and time.
> So where did the students go to get their suits made? Where else but
> Mohini?s in Fancy Bazar? The head tailor there was called masterji. When he
> was called, he showed up at the front desk with a measuring tape coolly
> around his neck and the two ends of it dangling. He talked sparingly
> because
> he knew his business. Any professional person who talks to his or her
> clients doesn?t know his or her profession. Did you ever talk with your
> doctor? He will shut you up any time you open your mouth to say something
> important to him ? something vitally important.
> Anyway, the culture of wearing a good pair of suits migrated down to those
> aspiring to be future engineers too. Such an aspiring soul came to board in
> our DS hostel. In a short time, he discarded his white pajamas, blue shirts
> and sandals and began wearing alternating between a light-blue suit and a
> dark-brown suit with appropriately matching shoes whenever he went out,
> which was often. When you wear a suit, you don?t sit in your room and study
> like so many fools! You go out with other suit-wearers. When you?re out
> with
> suit-wearers, you go for a long walk up and down through busy thoroughfares
> stopping at stores and buying odd little things showing off what a cool guy
> you were. If there were womenfolk in the stores, it was moksha! There were
> women. But they had more sense. They won?t tango with them.
> One evening, the student?s father showed up at the hostel enquiring about
> his son. But the son wasn?t there for hours, perhaps gallivanting in the
> city street. After hours passed, I came out of my room and asked the man if
> I could take a message for his son. ??No, that won?t be necessary... I?m
> financially ruined. I can?t keep up with his demands. Every so often he
> would come home and tell his mother he needed money. Lots of them. He needs
> to buy suits, shirts and shoes to prepare himself to be an good engineer.
> I?m just a railway clerk at Maligaon... How would I know how engineers are
> made??? said the haggard man wisping in Bengali.
> It was the most pathetic and most depraved story I had the misfortune ever
> came to hear. If I had a hidden desire to buy a pair of nice suits, it
> instantly vanished for a few years at least. I came to the US wearing a
> suit
> but I discarded that in favour of blue jeans and T-shirts. If I care to
> look, the suit might be still there somewhere in the house. But for what
> should I do that? I?m a non-suit man heart and soul.
> (The writer is settled at Berkeley, California)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:32:18 -0500
> From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
> world <assam at assamnet.org>
> Message-ID:
> <7b43066c0903161532y7515bd76n4b059052c9805229 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Why?He was the one who is complining about their ignorance.
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
> >
> >
> >
> > What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
> > research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
> > without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
> > article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based
> on
> > his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
> >
> >
> >
> > There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
> > educated intellectuals with different agendas.
> >
> >
> >
> > Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
> > problem.
> >
> >
> >
> > Rajen Barua
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
> > > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
> > > To: assam at assamnet.org
> > > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
> > >
> > > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
> > > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with
> his
> > > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
> > laughter-evoking
> > > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
> > > KJD
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > assam mailing list
> > > assam at assamnet.org
> > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:40:53 -0500
> From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
> world <assam at assamnet.org>
> Message-ID:
> <7b43066c0903161540w77182f79ic7ddde0451584e6b at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Did you read his mail? Very self-explanatory.
>
> On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
> wrote:
>
> > *** Wahid kokaideu does not have to go looking for Priyom Goswami or
> > Omolendu Guho for a confrontation. He has presented his findings. If
> someone
> > has a problem with it, they can very well
> > confront him, seek proof or rebut it or whatever.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 3:03 PM -0500 3/15/09, kamal deka wrote:
> >
> >> I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
> >> Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with his
> >> newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
> laughter-evoking
> >> buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
> >> KJD
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> assam mailing list
> >> assam at assamnet.org
> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:46:33 -0500
> From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
> world <assam at assamnet.org>
> Message-ID:
> <7b43066c0903161546pa713174q41f2bc298fc85ccc at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-13
>
> According to historian Satyendra Nath Sarma, [*Sarma, Satyendra Nath (1976)
> "Assamese Literature", Harrassowitz, Wiesbaden.*]
>
> While the Shan invaders called themselves Tai, they came to be referred to
> as "?s?m", "?sam" and sometimes as "Acam" by the indigenous people of the
> country. The modern Assamese word "?hom" by which the Tai people are known
> is derived from "?s?m" or "?sam". The epithet applied to the Shan
> conquerors
> was subsequently transferred to the country over which they ruled and thus
> the name K?mar?pa was replaced by ?s?m, which ultimately took the
> Sanskritized form "Asama", meaning "unequalled, peerless or uneven"
> [*Banikanta
> Kakati: "Assamese: Its Formation and Development", p2*]
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Dilip and Dil Deka
> <dilipdeka at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> > The debaters on this subject are looking at only two facets - the
> Tai-Ahom
> > connection and the possible Sanskritization. There is a third one to look
> > at. The Bodo-Kacharis have been in Assam longer than anyone else and
> their
> > people are spread all over Assam.
> > What did they call the land? Many rivers in Assam still have their Bodo
> > names.
> > What did they call the Tais who came to Assam in the 13th century?
> > Is there "xo" sound in Bodo language?
> > It is very possible that some words in Bodo were at the root of "Oxom",
> > "Assam", "Asom" or whatever else. Please do not throw away Dr. A. Guha or
> > Baden Powell(is that the name?) yet.
> >
> > I don't know a word of Bodo language. Could someone who knows Bodo
> comment
> > on the above?
> > I did go to the website http://www.bodoland.org/language1.htm and found
> > some interesting words but not much that would help the debate.
> > Dilip Deka
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> > To: assamnet <assam at assamnet.org>
> > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:21:13 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
> >
> >
> >
> > Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
> >
> >
> >
> > What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
> > research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
> > without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
> > article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based
> on
> > his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
> >
> >
> >
> > There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
> > educated intellectuals with different agendas.
> >
> >
> >
> > Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
> > problem.
> >
> >
> >
> > Rajen Barua
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
> > > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
> > > To: assam at assamnet.org
> > > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
> > >
> > > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
> > > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof..Amalendu Guha with
> his
> > > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
> > laughter-evoking
> > > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
> > > KJD
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > assam mailing list
> > > assam at assamnet.org
> > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:22:57 -0500
> From: Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
> world <assam at assamnet.org>
> Message-ID: <a06240801c5e48f2413b2@[192.168.0.197]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed"
>
> Does S N Sarma refer to any proof or is it a
> conjecture? And at what time frame did the name
> Asam came to be the defining name of the kingdom?
> Will it be reasonable to surmise that it was much
> before the British came?
>
> The Sanskritized form is a pure and unadulterated conjecture of modern
> times.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 5:46 PM -0500 3/16/09, kamal deka wrote:
> >According to historian Satyendra Nath Sarma, [*Sarma, Satyendra Nath
> (1976)
> >"Assamese Literature", Harrassowitz, Wiesbaden.*]
> >
> >While the Shan invaders called themselves Tai, they came to be referred to
> >as "?s?m", "?sam" and sometimes as "Acam" by the indigenous people of the
> >country. The modern Assamese word "?hom" by which the Tai people are known
> >is derived from "?s?m" or "?sam". The epithet applied to the Shan
> conquerors
> >was subsequently transferred to the country over which they ruled and thus
> >the name K?mar?pa was replaced by ?s?m, which ultimately took the
> >Sanskritized form "Asama", meaning "unequalled,
> >peerless or uneven" [*Banikanta
> >Kakati: "Assamese: Its Formation and Development", p2*]
> >
> >
> >On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Dilip and Dil
> >Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com>wrote:
> >
> >> The debaters on this subject are looking at only two facets - the
> Tai-Ahom
> >> connection and the possible Sanskritization. There is a third one to
> look
> >> at. The Bodo-Kacharis have been in Assam longer than anyone else and
> their
> >> people are spread all over Assam.
> >> What did they call the land? Many rivers in Assam still have their Bodo
> >> names.
> >> What did they call the Tais who came to Assam in the 13th century?
> >> Is there "xo" sound in Bodo language?
> >> It is very possible that some words in Bodo were at the root of "Oxom",
> >> "Assam", "Asom" or whatever else. Please do not throw away Dr. A. Guha
> or
> >> Baden Powell(is that the name?) yet.
> >>
> >> I don't know a word of Bodo language. Could someone who knows Bodo
> comment
> >> on the above?
> >> I did go to the website http://www.bodoland.org/language1.htm and
> found
> >> some interesting words but not much that would help the debate.
> >> Dilip Deka
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> >> To: assamnet <assam at assamnet.org>
> >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:21:13 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
> >> research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
> >> without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
> >> article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based
> on
> >> his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
> >> educated intellectuals with different agendas.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
> >> problem.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Rajen Barua
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
> >> > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
> >> > To: assam at assamnet.org
> >> > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
> >> >
> >> > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
> >> > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with
> his
> >> > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
> >> laughter-evoking
> >> > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
> >> > KJD
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > assam mailing list
> >> > assam at assamnet.org
> >> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> assam mailing list
> >> assam at assamnet.org
> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> assam mailing list
> >> assam at assamnet.org
> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >>
> >_______________________________________________
> >assam mailing list
> >assam at assamnet.org
> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:54:43 -0500
> From: "Rajen & Ajanta Barua" <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
> To: "A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
> world" <assam at assamnet.org>
> Message-ID: <BLU104-DS7C413BFDCE6E3BC440122AD980 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Dear Choudhury:
> Since you are new to the Assam net, please know that in this net we discuss
> and debate all kinds of intelligent intellectual issues.
> Please don't take anything personally in assam net. Here we do friendly
> intellectual hot debates all the time. Kamal, me, Ramgopal, Dilip, Chandan,
> Wahid and many others are friends, and actually many of us live in same
> city
> Houston as friends. But in hot issues we do heated debates and try to
> thrash
> out truths for the sake of the community. We understand that sometime the
> truths hurt.
>
> When Kamal wrote us as 'neophyte historians' we do not take it personally.
>
> When I wrote, "There are many ignorant educated people in Assam."
> Or " There are again some educated intellectuals with different agendas."
>
> It is same as the statement "There are many educated corrupt people in
> Assam".
> I am sure that statement would not mean that all the people of Assam are
> corrupt by any stretch of imagination. On the other hand if I make this
> statement, many will support me.
> These do not anyway mean that we are blaming all the people of Assam. Nor
> does it mean that people living outside Assam are superior or better. Many
> from Assam take part here. We never write thinking the people of Assam as
> different from us.
> I wrote I wrote in similar vein.
> I am sorry if I somehow hurt yours or anybody's feeling. But frankly
> speaking that is the flavor and beauty of Assam net.
> The net is doing a great service to the Assamese community for many many
> years now..
> I also want to clarify that this is not Friends of Assam net which is
> different. You may be confused for some reason.
> Regards
>
> Rajen Barua
>
>
> From: Choudhary, H. N. - AMW - MUM
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:29 AM
> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world
> Cc: rc2559 at columbia.edu
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>
>
> Dear All,
>
>
>
> Having read the mails and communications on the subject "about the name
> of Assam",
>
> I feel that the debate on the subject has become acrimonious and
> somewhat personal.
>
> No one can clam fame to become a historian overnight by writing an
> article on a historical topic. It is also not appropriate to call them
> "neophyte historians" as they may not deserve the accolade.
>
>
>
> If I have to give my comments on the following remarks:
>
> "There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
> educated intellectuals with different agendas."
>
>
>
> -- I will like to reserve my comments.
>
>
>
> Please exercise restraint and caution on commenting poorly on the whole
> of Assam or Assamese people.
>
> Your geographical location outside Assam (in USA or elsewhere) does not
> confer the right to make un-parliamentary
>
> comments on the people in Assam.
>
> These are sensitive issues.
>
>
>
> I am a recent addition to the group.
>
> I have served for many years in the Army and now in an Indian corporate.
>
>
> Having he advantage to experienced the best traditions of our culture
> and a mix of British culture,
>
> I could suggest that views and opinions need not "hurt" anyone. Please
> show tolerance.
>
> If we follow that in the Friends of Assam, we will remain friends.
>
>
>
> I request both parties to cool off.
>
> There is too much heat at the moment.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Col Hemen N Choudhary
>
> W Sea Face
>
> Mumbai
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: assam-bounces at assamnet.org [mailto:assam-bounces at assamnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Rajen Barua
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: assamnet
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
> research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
> without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
> article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based
> on his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> There are
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
> problem.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Rajen Barua
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
>
> > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
>
> > To: assam at assamnet.org
>
> > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>
> >
>
> > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
>
> > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with
> his
>
> > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
> laughter-evoking
>
> > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>
> > KJD
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > assam mailing list
>
> > assam at assamnet.org
>
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> assam mailing list
>
> assam at assamnet.org
>
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
>
>
> DISCLAIMER:
> Sample Disclaimer added in a VBScript.
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:04:05 -0500
> From: "Rajen & Ajanta Barua" <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
> To: "A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
> world" <assam at assamnet.org>
> Message-ID: <BLU104-DS25A6D9ADC864C80E6C489AD980 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-13"
>
> That is exactly what I wrote in my article with more elaboration of the
> word
> "Acam". I however don't buy the last statement of Banikanta Kakopty',
> "which ultimately took the Sanskritized form "Asama", meaning "unequalled,
> peerless or uneven" [*Banikanta Kakati: "Assamese: Its Formation and
> Development", p2*]"
>
> Where this Sanskrit came from?
>
> Bottomline, the word ASSAM does not have any vestiges of colonial rule.
>
> The words OXOM and AHOM came from the Assamese word ACAM
>
> I am not writing anything new. People simply need to read history books and
> find out the truth.
>
> It is a myth that ASSAM word is derived from OXOM.
>
> Rajen Barua
>
>
> From: kamal deka
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:46 PM
> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>
>
> According to historian Satyendra Nath Sarma, [*Sarma, Satyendra Nath (1976)
> "Assamese Literature", Harrassowitz, Wiesbaden.*]
>
> While the Shan invaders called themselves Tai, they came to be referred to
> as "?s?m", "?sam" and sometimes as "Acam" by the indigenous people of the
> country. The modern Assamese word "?hom" by which the Tai people are known
> is derived from "?s?m" or "?sam". The epithet applied to the Shan
> conquerors
> was subsequently transferred to the country over which they ruled and thus
> the name K?mar?pa was replaced by ?s?m, which ultimately took the
> Sanskritized form "Asama", meaning "unequalled, peerless or uneven"
> [*Banikanta
> Kakati: "Assamese: Its Formation and Development", p2*]
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Dilip and Dil Deka
> <dilipdeka at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> > The debaters on this subject are looking at only two facets - the
> Tai-Ahom
> > connection and the possible Sanskritization. There is a third one to look
> > at. The Bodo-Kacharis have been in Assam longer than anyone else and
> their
> > people are spread all over Assam.
> > What did they call the land? Many rivers in Assam still have their Bodo
> > names.
> > What did they call the Tais who came to Assam in the 13th century?
> > Is there "xo" sound in Bodo language?
> > It is very possible that some words in Bodo were at the root of "Oxom",
> > "Assam", "Asom" or whatever else. Please do not throw away Dr. A. Guha or
> > Baden Powell(is that the name?) yet.
> >
> > I don't know a word of Bodo language. Could someone who knows Bodo
> comment
> > on the above?
> > I did go to the website http://www.bodoland.org/language1.htm and found
> > some interesting words but not much that would help the debate.
> > Dilip Deka
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> > To: assamnet <assam at assamnet.org>
> > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:21:13 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
> >
> >
> >
> > Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
> >
> >
> >
> > What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
> > research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
> > without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
> > article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based
> on
> > his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
> >
> >
> >
> > There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
> > educated intellectuals with different agendas.
> >
> >
> >
> > Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
> > problem.
> >
> >
> >
> > Rajen Barua
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
> > > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
> > > To: assam at assamnet.org
> > > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
> > >
> > > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
> > > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with
> his
> > > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
> > laughter-evoking
> > > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
> > > KJD
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > assam mailing list
> > > assam at assamnet.org
> > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:37:36 -0500
> From: "Rajen & Ajanta Barua" <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
> To: "A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
> world" <assam at assamnet.org>
> Message-ID: <BLU104-DS2A75BE0FC0A139348BB75AD980 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Bodo is a Tibeto-Burman language. So far I know no Tibeto Burman language
> has the XO sound which is an Indo-European sound.
> The Bodo might have taken some Assamese words and might now pronounce the
> XO
> sound. This I donot know for sure. The Bodos were in Assam for about 3000
> years.
>
> I have a small book, written in Assamese titled "Boro Bhaxa Xikhya" by Mr
> Sanokyo Brohmo.
> The book does tell how to pronounce the Assamese letters, that is XO as SO
> or XO?.
>
> Mr Baden Powel claims that the Bodo has the word "Ha-com" which mean low or
> level land. He states, " The name Assam is most probably traceable to the
> Boro 'Ha-Com' which mean low or level country. The Boro word for water (di)
> has remained in the names of the rivers e.g. Dihong etc". "The Indian
> Village Community" by Baden Powel (page 135).
>
> I could not find the any Boro word 'Ha-Com' in the above book. However the
> book has the word Ha which mean land. There is also a word 'Com' (that is
> Som) which mean time. So we donot get anywhere. Even if we take Baden
> Powel's word, it again simply mean that Acam or Asam word is a local
> Assamese word and that it is earlier than Oxom. It also mean that Acam/Asam
> or Assam is not an anglicised word.
>
> Note, we will have to take the outside historians of Assam with a grain of
> salt because the same Baden Powel wrote in the same book the following
> statement>
> "The local dialect, Assamese, is a comparatively recent modification of
> Bengali"
> This how much this famous historian knows about Assam and the Assamese.
>
> After reading Gait and many other history books on Assam, I find one
> Assamese historian who wrote a really good autentic history of Assam. He is
> P.C. Choudhury (The Histroy of the Civilisation of the People of Assam).
> Anybody who wants to know about the past history of Assam should read it.
>
> For our cultural past, one should read Dimbeswar Neog.
>
> Rajen Barua
>
> From: Dilip and Dil Deka
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:57 AM
> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>
>
> The debaters on this subject are looking at only two facets - the Tai-Ahom
> connection and the possible Sanskritization. There is a third one to look
> at. The Bodo-Kacharis have been in Assam longer than anyone else and their
> people are spread all over Assam.
> What did they call the land? Many rivers in Assam still have their Bodo
> names.
> What did they call the Tais who came to Assam in the 13th century?
> Is there "xo" sound in Bodo language?
> It is very possible that some words in Bodo were at the root of "Oxom",
> "Assam", "Asom" or whatever else. Please do not throw away Dr. A. Guha or
> Baden Powell(is that the name?) yet.
>
> I don't know a word of Bodo language. Could someone who knows Bodo comment
> on the above?
> I did go to the website http://www.bodoland.org/language1.htm and found
> some
> interesting words but not much that would help the debate.
> Dilip Deka
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> To: assamnet <assam at assamnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:21:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>
>
>
> Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>
>
>
> What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
> research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
> without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
> article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based on
> his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>
>
>
> There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
> educated intellectuals with different agendas.
>
>
>
> Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
> problem.
>
>
>
> Rajen Barua
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
> > From: kjit..deka at gmail.com
> > To: assam at assamnet.org
> > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
> >
> > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
> > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with his
> > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
> laughter-evoking
> > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
> > KJD
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:31:03 -0500
> From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
> world <assam at assamnet.org>
> Message-ID:
> <7b43066c0903162031i3398f79chb4aff0de6b0a7870 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I do agree
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Rajen & Ajanta Barua
> <barua25 at hotmail.com>wrote:
>
> > Dear Choudhury:
> > Since you are new to the Assam net, please know that in this net we
> discuss
> > and debate all kinds of intelligent intellectual issues.
> > Please don't take anything personally in assam net. Here we do friendly
> > intellectual hot debates all the time. Kamal, me, Ramgopal, Dilip,
> Chandan,
> > Wahid and many others are friends, and actually many of us live in same
> city
> > Houston as friends. But in hot issues we do heated debates and try to
> thrash
> > out truths for the sake of the community. We understand that sometime the
> > truths hurt.
> >
> > When Kamal wrote us as 'neophyte historians' we do not take it
> personally.
> >
> > When I wrote, "There are many ignorant educated people in Assam."
> > Or " There are again some educated intellectuals with different agendas."
> >
> > It is same as the statement "There are many educated corrupt people in
> > Assam".
> > I am sure that statement would not mean that all the people of Assam are
> > corrupt by any stretch of imagination. On the other hand if I make this
> > statement, many will support me.
> > These do not anyway mean that we are blaming all the people of Assam.
> Nor
> > does it mean that people living outside Assam are superior or better.
> Many
> > from Assam take part here. We never write thinking the people of Assam as
> > different from us.
> > I wrote I wrote in similar vein.
> > I am sorry if I somehow hurt yours or anybody's feeling. But frankly
> > speaking that is the flavor and beauty of Assam net.
> > The net is doing a great service to the Assamese community for many many
> > years now.
> > I also want to clarify that this is not Friends of Assam net which is
> > different. You may be confused for some reason.
> > Regards
> >
> > Rajen Barua
> >
> >
> > From: Choudhary, H. N. - AMW - MUM
> > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:29 AM
> > To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world
> > Cc: rc2559 at columbia.edu
> > Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
> >
> >
> > Dear All,
> >
> >
> >
> > Having read the mails and communications on the subject "about the name
> > of Assam",
> >
> > I feel that the debate on the subject has become acrimonious and
> > somewhat personal.
> >
> > No one can clam fame to become a historian overnight by writing an
> > article on a historical topic. It is also not appropriate to call them
> > "neophyte historians" as they may not deserve the accolade.
> >
> >
> >
> > If I have to give my comments on the following remarks:
> >
> > "There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
> > educated intellectuals with different agendas."
> >
> >
> >
> > -- I will like to reserve my comments.
> >
> >
> >
> > Please exercise restraint and caution on commenting poorly on the whole
> > of Assam or Assamese people.
> >
> > Your geographical location outside Assam (in USA or elsewhere) does not
> > confer the right to make un-parliamentary
> >
> > comments on the people in Assam.
> >
> > These are sensitive issues.
> >
> >
> >
> > I am a recent addition to the group.
> >
> > I have served for many years in the Army and now in an Indian corporate.
> >
> >
> > Having he advantage to experienced the best traditions of our culture
> > and a mix of British culture,
> >
> > I could suggest that views and opinions need not "hurt" anyone. Please
> > show tolerance.
> >
> > If we follow that in the Friends of Assam, we will remain friends.
> >
> >
> >
> > I request both parties to cool off.
> >
> > There is too much heat at the moment.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Col Hemen N Choudhary
> >
> > W Sea Face
> >
> > Mumbai
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: assam-bounces at assamnet.org [mailto:assam-bounces at assamnet.org] On
> > Behalf Of Rajen Barua
> > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 6:51 PM
> > To: assamnet
> > Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
> > research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
> > without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
> > article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based
> > on his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > There are
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
> > problem.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Rajen Barua
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
> >
> > > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
> >
> > > To: assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
> >
> > > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with
> > his
> >
> > > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
> > laughter-evoking
> >
> > > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
> >
> > > KJD
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> >
> > > assam mailing list
> >
> > > assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > assam mailing list
> >
> > assam at assamnet.org
> >
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
> >
> >
> > DISCLAIMER:
> > Sample Disclaimer added in a VBScript.
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:54:19 -0500
> From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
> world <assam at assamnet.org>
> Message-ID:
> <7b43066c0903162054s1cf4f395wc7673fbdc0945fb8 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I have been given to understand that even the British could not pronounce
> the XO sound.The names of many tea-gardens in Assam are spelled as HO
> rather
> than XO.There is a tea-garden close to Tinsukia named HUKANPUKHURI instead
> of XUKANPUKHURI.A passing remark only.
> By the way,have you read the book published by Lawyer's Book Stall recently
> which was translated from French into English ? The book is related to
> a diary of a French traveller.In that translated book,the name of our
> state is written as ASEM.
> KJD
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 8:37 PM, Rajen & Ajanta Barua
> <barua25 at hotmail.com>wrote:
>
> > Bodo is a Tibeto-Burman language. So far I know no Tibeto Burman language
> > has the XO sound which is an Indo-European sound.
> > The Bodo might have taken some Assamese words and might now pronounce the
> > XO sound. This I donot know for sure. The Bodos were in Assam for about
> 3000
> > years.
> >
> > I have a small book, written in Assamese titled "Boro Bhaxa Xikhya" by Mr
> > Sanokyo Brohmo.
> > The book does tell how to pronounce the Assamese letters, that is XO as
> SO
> > or XO?.
> >
> > Mr Baden Powel claims that the Bodo has the word "Ha-com" which mean low
> or
> > level land. He states, " The name Assam is most probably traceable to the
> > Boro 'Ha-Com' which mean low or level country. The Boro word for water
> (di)
> > has remained in the names of the rivers e.g. Dihong etc". "The Indian
> > Village Community" by Baden Powel (page 135).
> >
> > I could not find the any Boro word 'Ha-Com' in the above book. However
> the
> > book has the word Ha which mean land. There is also a word 'Com' (that is
> > Som) which mean time. So we donot get anywhere. Even if we take Baden
> > Powel's word, it again simply mean that Acam or Asam word is a local
> > Assamese word and that it is earlier than Oxom. It also mean that
> Acam/Asam
> > or Assam is not an anglicised word.
> >
> > Note, we will have to take the outside historians of Assam with a grain
> of
> > salt because the same Baden Powel wrote in the same book the following
> > statement>
> > "The local dialect, Assamese, is a comparatively recent modification of
> > Bengali"
> > This how much this famous historian knows about Assam and the Assamese.
> >
> > After reading Gait and many other history books on Assam, I find one
> > Assamese historian who wrote a really good autentic history of Assam. He
> is
> > P.C. Choudhury (The Histroy of the Civilisation of the People of Assam).
> > Anybody who wants to know about the past history of Assam should read it.
> >
> > For our cultural past, one should read Dimbeswar Neog.
> >
> > Rajen Barua
> >
> > From: Dilip and Dil Deka
> > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:57 AM
> > To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world
> > Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
> >
> >
> > The debaters on this subject are looking at only two facets - the
> Tai-Ahom
> > connection and the possible Sanskritization. There is a third one to look
> > at. The Bodo-Kacharis have been in Assam longer than anyone else and
> their
> > people are spread all over Assam.
> > What did they call the land? Many rivers in Assam still have their Bodo
> > names.
> > What did they call the Tais who came to Assam in the 13th century?
> > Is there "xo" sound in Bodo language?
> > It is very possible that some words in Bodo were at the root of "Oxom",
> > "Assam", "Asom" or whatever else. Please do not throw away Dr. A. Guha or
> > Baden Powell(is that the name?) yet.
> >
> > I don't know a word of Bodo language. Could someone who knows Bodo
> comment
> > on the above?
> > I did go to the website http://www.bodoland.org/language1.htm and found
> > some interesting words but not much that would help the debate.
> > Dilip Deka
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> > To: assamnet <assam at assamnet.org>
> > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:21:13 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
> >
> >
> >
> > Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
> >
> >
> >
> > What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
> > research work.. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
> > without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
> > article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based on
> > his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
> >
> >
> >
> > There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
> > educated intellectuals with different agendas.
> >
> >
> >
> > Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
> > problem.
> >
> >
> >
> > Rajen Barua
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
> > > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
> > > To: assam at assamnet.org
> > > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
> > >
> > > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
> > > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with
> his
> > > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
> > laughter-evoking
> > > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
> > > KJD
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > assam mailing list
> > > assam at assamnet.org
> > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:59:31 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Dilip and Dil Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [Assam] Fragmented Memories: Struggling to be Tai-Ahom in
> India - by Yasmin Saikia
> To: ASSAMNET <assam at assamnet.org>
> Message-ID: <802445.61510.qm at web111313.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Click on the link below. You will get some very interesting information.
> Above all you will get an idea about Buranjis and the so called Ahom
> kingdom.
> Yasmin Saikia has done considerable research and put together information
> that we all want to know.
> This link does not have all the pages of the book but one can buy the whole
> book.
> Dilip Deka
>
> Fragmented Memories: Struggling to be Tai-Ahom in India - Google Books
> Result
> by Yasmin Saikia - 2004 - Social Science - 327 pages
> In Assam even today people talk about a buranji called Chakarepheti Buranji
> (The hooded ... past were removed by such drastic measures as burning
> buranjis. ...
> books.google..com/books?isbn=0822333732...
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:33:59 +0530
> From: Babul Gogoi <bgogoi at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Assam] Fragmented Memories: Struggling to be Tai-Ahom in
> India - by Yasmin Saikia
> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
> world <assam at assamnet.org>
> Message-ID:
> <880b6ca80903162103i70f53eb9u428f89e65b928ae1 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> http://books.google.co.in/books?id=p9PkFF3uq_8C
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Dilip and Dil Deka
> <dilipdeka at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> > Click on the link below. You will get some very interesting information.
> > Above all you will get an idea about Buranjis and the so called Ahom
> > kingdom.
> > Yasmin Saikia has done considerable research and put together information
> > that we all want to know.
> > This link does not have all the pages of the book but one can buy the
> whole
> > book.
> > Dilip Deka
> >
> > Fragmented Memories: Struggling to be Tai-Ahom in India - Google Books
> > Result
> > by Yasmin Saikia - 2004 - Social Science - 327 pages
> > In Assam even today people talk about a buranji called Chakarepheti
> Buranji
> > (The hooded ... past were removed by such drastic measures as burning
> > buranjis. ...
> > books.google.com/books?isbn=0822333732...
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Other things may change us, but we start and end with the family.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:16:13 -0500
> From: "Alpana B. Sarangapani" <absarangapani at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [Assam] Sanskrit and Assamese
> To: <assam at assamnet.org>
> Message-ID: <BLU127-W4651C1DAD96F1A5A58485DB3980 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Here is a nice write-up on Dr. S. Ahmed, a PhD in Sanskrit from Gauhati
> University. He sounds like a knowledgable person when it comes to history,
> language, culture and real life, very interesting.
>
>
>
> http://www.assamtribune.com/dec2306/at07.html
>
>
>
> "Another reason, he cites is Sanskrit could provide students with better
> grasp of history as almost all the ancient texts and inscriptions in India
> are written in that language. Even to know the Assamese language better, or
> learn the roots of many words, Sanskrit is the language of choice, he
> claims."
>
>
>
> It would be great if scholars like him also come and join Assam Net.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?.
>
> http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX
> _WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:17:03 -0500
> From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
> world <assam at assamnet.org>
> Message-ID:
> <7b43066c0903162117u1cacf170nf5d43b298c13937c at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Does S N Sarma refer to any proof or is it a conjecture? And at what time
> > frame did the name Asam came to be the defining name of the kingdom? Will
> it
> > be reasonable to surmise that it was much before the British came?
> >
> > *Assam and other derivatives *
> >
> > The earliest mention of "Assam" is found in the Bhagavat of Sankardeva,
> > composed in the 15th and 16th centuries. The relevant stanza
> [*Srimandbhagavat,
> > skandha 2, H Dattabaruah and Co., Nalbari, pp-38*] is (in [*
> > http://www.aczoom.com/itrans/#itransencoding iTrans*] )
> >
> > kiraTa kachhaari khaachi gaaro miri yavana ka~Nka govaala
> > asama maluka dhobaa ye turuka kubaacha mlechchha chaNDaala
> >
> > One of the first unambiguous references comes from Thomas Bowrey in 1663
> > about Mir Jumla's death: "They lost the best of Nabobs, the Kingdome of
> > Acham, and, by consequence, many large privileges". [*Bowrey, Thomas, "A
> > Geographical Account of Countries around Bay of Bengal", ed Temple, R.
> C.,
> > Hakluyt Society's Publications*]
> >
> KJD
>
> >
> >
> > The Sanskritized form is a pure and unadulterated conjecture of modern
> > times.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 5:46 PM -0500 3/16/09, kamal deka wrote:
> >
> >> According to historian Satyendra Nath Sarma, [*Sarma, Satyendra Nath
> >> (1976)
> >> "Assamese Literature", Harrassowitz, Wiesbaden.*]
> >>
> >> While the Shan invaders called themselves Tai, they came to be referred
> to
> >> as "?s?m", "?sam" and sometimes as "Acam" by the indigenous people of
> the
> >> country. The modern Assamese word "?hom" by which the Tai people are
> known
> >> is derived from "?s?m" or "?sam". The epithet applied to the Shan
> >> conquerors
> >> was subsequently transferred to the country over which they ruled and
> thus
> >> the name K?mar?pa was replaced by ?s?m, which ultimately took the
> >>
> >> Sanskritized form "Asama", meaning "unequalled, peerless or uneven"
> >> [*Banikanta
> >> Kakati: "Assamese: Its Formation and Development", p2*]
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Dilip and Dil Deka <
> dilipdeka at yahoo.com
> >> >wrote:
> >>
> >> The debaters on this subject are looking at only two facets - the
> >>> Tai-Ahom
> >>> connection and the possible Sanskritization. There is a third one to
> >>> look
> >>> at. The Bodo-Kacharis have been in Assam longer than anyone else and
> >>> their
> >>> people are spread all over Assam.
> >>> What did they call the land? Many rivers in Assam still have their
> Bodo
> >>> names.
> >>> What did they call the Tais who came to Assam in the 13th century?
> >>> Is there "xo" sound in Bodo language?
> >>> It is very possible that some words in Bodo were at the root of
> "Oxom",
> >>> "Assam", "Asom" or whatever else. Please do not throw away Dr. A. Guha
> >>> or
> >>> Baden Powell(is that the name?) yet.
> >>>
> >>> I don't know a word of Bodo language. Could someone who knows Bodo
> >>> comment
> >>> on the above?
> >>> I did go to the website http://www.bodoland.org/language1.htm and
> found
> >>> some interesting words but not much that would help the debate.
> >>> Dilip Deka
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
> >>> To: assamnet <assam at assamnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:21:13 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
> >>> research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell
> even
> >>> without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
> >>> article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing
> based
> >>> on
> >>> his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
> >>> educated intellectuals with different agendas.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
> >>> problem.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Rajen Barua
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
> >>> > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
> >>> > To: assam at assamnet.org
> >>> > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
> >>> >
> >>> > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
> >>> > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with
> >>> his
> >>> > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
> >>> laughter-evoking
> >>> > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
> >>> > KJD
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > assam mailing list
> >>> > assam at assamnet.org
> >>> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> assam mailing list
> >>> assam at assamnet.org
> >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> assam mailing list
> >>> assam at assamnet.org
> >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> assam mailing list
> >> assam at assamnet.org
> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > assam mailing list
> > assam at assamnet.org
> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:12:30 +0530 (IST)
> From: Buljit Buragohain <buluassam at yahoo.co.in>
> Subject: [Assam] Web site of the "Adinor Sambad"
> To: assam at assamnet.org
> Message-ID: <610946.61560.qm at web8608.mail.in.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> ?
> Web site of the "Adinor Sambad"
>
> http://www.adinorsambad.com/epaper.php
>
>
>
> Get rid of Add-Ons in your email ID. Get yourname at rocketmail.com.
> Sign
> up now! http://in.promos.yahoo.com/address
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>
>
> End of assam Digest, Vol 44, Issue 23
> *************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> assam at assamnet.org
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>
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