[Assam] assam Digest, Vol 44, Issue 23 - About the name Assam
Chan Mahanta
cmahanta at charter.net
Wed Mar 18 10:35:56 PDT 2009
Double the proof now !
At 11:04 PM -0500 3/17/09, kamal deka wrote:
>The Dutch sailor wrote his diary in 1662 in which the name of our state was
>mentioned as Assam.Now read the following:
>One of the first unambiguous references comes from Thomas Bowrey in 1663
>about Mir Jumla's death: "They lost the best of Nabobs, the Kingdome of
>Acham, and, by consequence, many large privileges". [*Bowrey, Thomas, "A
>Geographical Account of Countries around Bay of Bengal", ed Temple, R. C.,
>Hakluyt Society's Publications*]
>On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>> THERE IS NO CONSENSUS AMONG ASSAMESE SCHOLARS IN SO FAR AS THE ETYMOLOGY
>>> OF >ASSAM IS CONCERNED.
>>>
>>
>>
>> *** That does not make Assam an anglicized form as claimed by OXX and as
>> Kamal and Dilip seem to agree. One however hardly needs to argue the point.
>> As Sherlock Holmes might have said, it is elementary Dr. Watson.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >I HAPPENED TO SPEAK TO A FEW INTELLECTUALS,WHO ARE VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE
>>> DUTCH DOCUMENT REFUSE TO ACCEPT THAT AS AN AUTHENTIC PROOF.
>>>
>>
>>
>> *** Did they give any reason as to WHY it is NOT an authentic proof,
>> acceptable to their scholarships? And if they don't , should we, as thinking
>> and rational people accept the verdict of somebody who just doesn't like it
>> - never mind why?
>> Why should we even consider them SCHOLARS if they cannot make a persuasive
>> argument why the Dutch document is not authentic?
>>
>> To accept it as the last word because some ' certified scholar ' says so
>> will make us seem like sheep, unable to exercise our own reasoning
>> abilities. I would want to see the certification of those scholars
>> first :-).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 5:43 PM -0500 3/17/09, kamal deka wrote:
>>
>>> I would like to conclude by saying the following;
>>> THERE IS NO CONSENSUS AMONG ASSAMESE SCHOLARS IN SO FAR AS THE ETYMOLOGY
>>> OF
>>> ASSAM IS CONCERNED.THEY ARE DIVIDED ON RACIAL LINES.THE TRIBAL SCHOLARS
>>> VEHEMENTLY OPPOSES THE NAME CHANGE,WHILE THE PLAIN GROUPS FAVORS IT.
>>> I HAPPENED TO SPEAK TO A FEW INTELLECTUALS,WHO ARE VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE
>>> DUTCH DOCUMENT REFUSE TO ACCEPT THAT AS AN AUTHENTIC PROOF.
>>> AGAIN, THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT ANY NEW DISCOVERY,BE IT THE BOGORI(
>>> OLIVE),BENGANA ( EGG-PLANT) OR BURONJI ( HISTORY) MUST PASS THE
>>> CREDIBILITY
>>> TEST.THAT YARDSTICK OUGHT TO BE APPLIED EQUALLY TO ALL.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Dilip and Dil Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com
>>> >wrote:
>>>
>>> '' In the meantime, verifiable proof exists
>>>> to claim with certainty that Assam is NOT an anglicized form of what
>>>> the historical name of what we call Oxom today, because it predates
>>>> the British arrival in Assam. Pretty simple."
>>>> ------ As I said, the proof provided shows outsiders (foreigners) called
> >>> the land "Assam" or "Asem" or whatever else. That includes the Dutch,
>>>> the
>>>> Mughals, and the British. There is also proof that the Dutch used the
>>>> name
>>>> before the British did. It still does not prove that the residents of
>>>> Assam
>>>> called their land by that name. That is the point of my bringing in Bodo
>>>> language side of the equation.
>>>>
>>>> " >I personally feel deeper research has to be done into Bodo language
>>>> >and folk-literature to see if the >root of the word Oxom can be
>>>> >found.
>>>> That is one's prerogative. Like it is for creationists to find proof to
>>>> debunk evolution."
>>>> ------- Your words have no relevance here. You are reading me wrong. I
>>>> am
>>>> not debunking the statement that the land in question was called Assam
>>>> (or
>>>> whatever else) by outsiders before the British. My curiosity is about
>>>> "Oxom"
>>>> and "Ahom". When did these words come into use? The Tais did not call
>>>> themselves Ahom. So who started that word? Do the words Ahom and Oxom
>>>> have
>>>> some connection? I am suggesting that Bodo language may give some clue.
> >>>
>>>> Is it fair to say that this whole Assamnet debate wouldn't have started
>>>> if
>>>> OXX had used the word "Westernized" in stead of "Anglicized" to describe
>>>> the
>>>> word "Assam"?
>>>> I agree that "Asom" is not a suitable replacement for "Assam" as
>>>> proposed
>>>> by the Assam govt.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>================================================================================
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
>>>> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world
>>>> <
>>>> assam at assamnet.org>; wahid.saleh at gmail.com
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 3:51:58 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Assam] assam Digest, Vol 44, Issue 23 - About the name
>>>> Assam
>>>>
>>>> >I personally feel deeper research has to be done into Bodo language
>>>>
>>> > >and folk-literature to see if the >root of the word Oxom can be
>>> > >found.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *** That is one's prerogative. Like it is for creationists to find
>>>> proof to debunk evolution. In the meantime, verifiable proof exists
>>>> to claim with certainty that Assam is NOT an anglicized form of what
>>>> the historical name of what we call Oxom today, because it predates
>>>> the British arrival in Assam. Pretty simple.
>>>>
>>>> THAT was the point of contention: What OXX's website claimed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At 10:02 AM -0700 3/17/09, Dilip and Dil Deka wrote:
>>>> >Mr. Saleh,
>>>> >
>>>> >You said, " All I did was to search for available information in
>>>> >publications (in English and other languages) and
>>>> >compile the information and publish an article to show that the name
>>>> Assam
>>>> >was not given by the British. The name existed before the British
>>>> >came to Assam."
>>>> >
>>>> >Your interest in the subject and the time you spent in the
>>>> >research should be appreciated by all who are somewhat interested in
>>>> >Assam's history. In the above paragraph, you have also made it very
>>>> >clear that your goal was to show that other outsiders (other than
>>>> >the British) also called today's Oxom as Assam or something similar.
>>>> >I do not believe you wanted to get into the debate over whether the
>>>> >name Assam (or something similar) came first, or Oxom. As we have
>>>> >seen in this debate and elsewhere, it will be very hard to pinpoint
>>>> >when the name Oxom came into being. Dr. Yasmin Saikia in her
>>>> >research concluded that a name for the Ahom kingdom does not appear
>>>> >in the Buranjis remaining today. As we know a large number of
>>>> >Buranjis were burnt under the care of Kirti Charan Barbarua. There
>>>> >may be some hiding in some village in Assam. Who knows?
>>>> >
>>>> >I personally feel deeper research has to be done into Bodo language
>>>> >and folk-literature to see if the root of the word Oxom can be found.
>>>> >I asked a question a few days ago - who gave the name Ahom to the
>>>> >Tai group and why did the Tai people so willingly accepted it?
>>>> >No one has answered it.
> >>> >
>>>> >Again, thanks for your dedication to things Assamese.
>>>> >Dilip Deka
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >________________________________
>>>> >From: Wahid Saleh(GM) <wahid.saleh at gmail.com>
>>>> >To: assam at assamnet..org
>>>> >Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:01:54 AM
>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] assam Digest, Vol 44, Issue 23 - About the name
>>>> Assam
>>>> >
>>>> >>>I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
>>>> >>>Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with
>>>> >>>his newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>>>> >>>laughter-evoking buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history
>>>> ?
>>>> >
>>>> >It was not my intention to confront others. All I did was to search for
>>>> >available information in publications (in English and other languages)
>>>> and
>>>> >compile the information and publish an article to show that the name
>>>> Assam
>>>> >was not given by the British. The name existed before the British came
>>>> to
>>>> >Assam.
>>>> >
>>>> >In my search for information on this subject I contacted persons who
> >>> knew
>>>> >about Indian, Dutch, English and Portuguese histories, did research and
>>>> >published papers and books in their respective fields. They were based
>>>> in
>>>> >Australia, Bangladesh, Iran, India, the Netherlands, Portugal, Vietnam,
>>>> >Thailand, UK and USA. Most of them are considered to be authorities in
>>>> their
>>>> >respective fields. I also did some research on Marco Polo and Huen
>>>> Tsang
>>>> to
>>>> >find out if they mentioned the name Assam in their travel journals.
>>>> >
>>>> >During this process I stumbled upon the fact that the person named
>>>> Glanius
>>>> >who is mentioned by several well-known historians did not accompany Mir
>>>> >Jumla and also never visited Assam. I also published an article on the
>>>> same
>>>> >subject.
>>>> >
>>>> >We all have the freedom to accept the mentioned books/publications as
>>>> >historical documents or reject them totally.
>>>> >
>>>> >I quoted Prof. Priyam Goswami from a news item published by Times of
>>>> India
>>>> >(26-02-06) with the title "Assam to fall off the map, turn Asom" as Mr.
>>>> Deka
>>>> >wanted explanations from someone competent authority.
>>>>
>>> > >
>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >>I remain unconvinced.
>>>>
>>> > >>In the fitness of thing,the entire matter ought to be left for
>>> those,who
>>>
>>>> >are in the business of reading,analyzing and interpreting the
>>>> nitty-gritty
>>>> >>historical facts and data.
>>>> >>I refuse to accept the interpretation put forward by Saleh/Barua as an
>>>> >>unshakable truth.
>>>> >>As far as I am concerned,their explanation is of no
>>>> consequence,pending
>>>> >full verification by the competent ones.
>>>> >>Meanwhile,those self-proclaimed neo-historians should stop the tamasha
>>>> of
>>>> >>re-writing and re-interpreting facts in regard to Assam's
>>>> >>history,who,perhaps,haven't studied the subject seriously save
>>>> high-school
>>>> >>history :-)
>>>> >
>>>> >Mr. Amalendu Guha and Kalika Purna were quoted by Mr. Deka and my reply
>>>> was
>>>> >only in reference to the said quotes.
>>>> >
>>>> >Both Prof Goswami and Mr. Guha wrote within the framework of
>>>> information
>>>> >available to them. This does not mean that they are "buffons". They are
>>>> >contributing their own way to the knowledge of the society. In and
>>>> outside
>>>> >their academic circle they are respected academicians. We may agree
>>>> with
>>>> >them or reject their arguments without using some adjectives which they
>>>> >don't deserve.
>>>> >
>>>> >Wahid Saleh
>>>> >
>>>> >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>>> >Van: assam-bounces at assamnet.org [mailto:assam-bounces at assamnet.org]
>>>> Namens
>>>> >assam-request at assamnet.org
>>>> >Verzonden: dinsdag 17 maart 2009 7:30
>>>> >Aan: assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >Onderwerp: assam Digest, Vol 44, Issue 23
>>>> >
>>>> >Send assam mailing list submissions to
>>>> > assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >
>>>> >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >>> >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>> > assam-request at assamnet.org
>>>> >
>>>> >You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>> > assam-owner at assamnet.org
>>>> >
>>>> >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>> >than "Re: Contents of assam digest..."
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Today's Topics:
>>>> >
>>>> > 1. Re: About the name Assam (Choudhary, H. N. - AMW - MUM)
>>>> > 2. Of Wearing Suits and their Side-effects - Kalyan
>>>> > Dutta-Choudhury, The Sentinel (Ram Sarangapani)
>>>> > 3. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
>>>> > 4. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
>>>> > 5. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
>>>> > 6. Re: About the name Assam (Chan Mahanta)
>>>> > 7. Re: About the name Assam (Rajen & Ajanta Barua)
>>>> > 8. Re: About the name Assam (Rajen & Ajanta Barua)
>>>> > 9. Re: About the name Assam (Rajen & Ajanta Barua)
>>>> > 10. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
>>>> > 11. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
>>>> > 12. Fragmented Memories: Struggling to be Tai-Ahom in India - by
> >>> > Yasmin Saikia (Dilip and Dil Deka)
>>>> > 13. Re: Fragmented Memories: Struggling to be Tai-Ahom in India -
>>>> > by Yasmin Saikia (Babul Gogoi)
>>>> > 14. Sanskrit and Assamese (Alpana B. Sarangapani)
>>>> > 15. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
>>>> > 16.. Web site of the "Adinor Sambad" (Buljit Buragohain)
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> >
>>>> >Message: 1
>>>> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:59:07 +0530
>>>> >From: "Choudhary, H. N. - AMW - MUM" <HNChoudhary at amwasia.com>
>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >To: "A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>> > world" <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>> >Cc: rc2559 at columbia.edu
>>>> >Message-ID:
>>>> > <C277F575BBB7F54B9DB20593FACB611003A415 at amwbkcexch.amwasia.com>
>>>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>> >
>>>> >Dear All,
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Having read the mails and communications on the subject "about the
>>>> name
>>>> >of Assam",
>>>> >
>>>> >I feel that the debate on the subject has become acrimonious and
>>>> >somewhat personal.
>>>> >
>>>> >No one can clam fame to become a historian overnight by writing an
>>>> >article on a historical topic. It is also not appropriate to call them
>>>> >"neophyte historians" as they may not deserve the accolade.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >If I have to give my comments on the following remarks:
>>>> >
>>>> >"There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
>>>>
>>> > >educated intellectuals with different agendas."
>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >-- I will like to reserve my comments.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Please exercise restraint and caution on commenting poorly on the whole
>>>> >of Assam or Assamese people.
>>>> >
>>>> >Your geographical location outside Assam (in USA or elsewhere) does not
>>>> >confer the right to make un-parliamentary
>>>> >
>>>> >comments on the people in Assam.
>>>> >
>>>> >These are sensitive issues.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >I am a recent addition to the group.
>>>> >
>>>> >I have served for many years in the Army and now in an Indian
>>>> corporate.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Having he advantage to experienced the best traditions of our culture
>>>> >and a mix of British culture,
>>>> >
>>>> >I could suggest that views and opinions need not "hurt" anyone. Please
>>>> >show tolerance.
>>>> >
>>>> >If we follow that in the Friends of Assam, we will remain friends.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >I request both parties to cool off.
>>>> >
>>>> >There is too much heat at the moment.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Regards,
>>>> >
>>>> >Col Hemen N Choudhary
>>>> >
>>>> >W Sea Face
>>>> >
>>>> >Mumbai
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >-----Original Message-----
>>>> >From: assam-bounces at assamnet.org [mailto:assam-bounces at assamnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> >Behalf Of Rajen Barua
>>>> >Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 6:51 PM
>>>> >To: assamnet
>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
> >>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
>>>> >research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
>>>> >without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
>>>> >article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based
>>>> >on his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >There are
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
>>>> >problem.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Rajen Barua
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
>>>> >
>>>> >> From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
>>>> >
>>>> >> To: assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >
>>>> >> Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
> >>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >> I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
>>>> >
>>>> >> Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with
>>>> >his
>>>> >
>>>> >> newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>>>> >laughter-evoking
>>>> >
>>>> >> buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>>>> >
>>>> >> KJD
>>>> >
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >
>>>> >> assam mailing list
>>>> >
>>>> >> assam at assamnet..org
>>>> >
>>>> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >
>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>> >
>>>> >assam mailing list
>>>> >
>>>> >assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >
>>>> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >DISCLAIMER:
>>>> >Sample Disclaimer added in a VBScript.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >------------------------------
>>>> >
>>>> >Message: 2
>>>> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:24:16 -0500
>>>> >From: Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
>>>> >Subject: [Assam] Of Wearing Suits and their Side-effects - Kalyan
>>>> > Dutta-Choudhury, The Sentinel
>>>> >To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>> > world <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>> >Message-ID:
>>>> > <6e564ddf0903161424p5482b16es190baf547c7cd65d at mail.gmail.com>
>>>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>>>> >
>>>> >Netters,
>>>> >
>>>> >Kalyan da writes well, and I kind of like this piece. Reminds me of
>>>> Gandhi,
>>>> >"Imitating the English Gentleman" which we had at high school, where
>>>> Gandhi
>>>> >declares
>>>> >"And Mr. Bell rang the bell of Alarm in my ears, and I awoke" after he
>>>> felt
>>>> >guilty asking money from back home for his elocution and music lessons
>>>> in
>>>> >London.
>>>> >
>>>> >"The head tailor there was called masterji. When he was called, he
>>>> showed
>>>> up
>>>> >at the front desk with a measuring tape coolly around his neck and the
>>>> two
>>>> >ends of it dangling. He talked sparingly because he knew his business.
>>>> Any
>>>> >professional person who talks to his or her clients doesn?t know his or
>>>>
>>> > her
>>>
>>>> >profession." - K DC
>>>> >
>>>> >This is just precious. I remember going for my first job interview at
>>>> >Guwahati.. Didn't have a suit, so I borrowed a jacket from a friend -
>>>> similar
>>>> >shade. But the jacket was a size smaller. So, I used the next best
>>>> option
>>>> -
>>>> >slung the jacket over my shoulders - to look hip, and make it look like
>>>> it
>>>> >was my suit.
>>>> >
>>>> >--Ram
>>>> >_______________
>>>> >
>>>> >*Kalyan Dutta-Choudhury
>>>> >
>>>> >*A television programme showed men?s suits selling for upwards of, get
>>>> this
>>>> >incredible story, forty three thousand dollars. No, the suits weren?t
>>>> made
>>>> >of gold or titanium or any other precious metal. They were regular
>>>> woollen
>>>> >suits but the wool came from some animals grazing in some kind of grass
>>>> >which grew in cool highlands of South America. The interviewer sported
> >>> a
>>>> >high-priced suit of that kind of lineage but he didn?t look any
>>>> different
>>>> >than when he was wearing his regular suit of approximately of same
>>>> colour
>>>> >and texture. But that?s purely my judgement.
>>>> >Then, what is the hype about paying forty three thousand dollars for a
>>>> suit?
>>>> >That lies in the psychology of buying at one end, and selling at the
>>>> other
>>>> >end, of the business enterprise. The buyer may be a craven soul like
>>>> Barney
>>>> >Madeoff who made his money by bilking others, but how the seller, in
>>>> right
>>>> >conscientiousness, could sell the high-priced suits? They are made of
>>>> the
>>>> >same mould. They feed off each other?s depravity.
>>>> >A relative of ours went to France, of many other places, for a visit to
>>>> see
>>>> >how things were different up there.. It seemed he made lots of money.
>>>> Who
>>>> >doesn?t make money in Assam? Only fools don?t. Looking around in Paris,
>>>> he
>>>> >found a tailoring shop which made suits. Asking for the price of a
> >>> suit,
>>>> he
>>>> >was shocked to learn the price of suits ? way too high. With that kind
>>>> of
>>>> >money, he quickly calculated using his handy pocket calculator: ??I
>>>> could
>>>> >make two pairs of suits with heavier clothing at Mohini?s in
>>>> Guwahati.??
>>>> >That?s what he did. The suits were a bit ill-fitting and out of style.
>>>> But
>>>> >who cares about good fit and style in the non-suit domain like
>>>> Guwahati!
>>>> >It?s the quality of clothing that matters.
>>>> >In the late 50s and early 60s, there was a veritable mania of wearing
>>>> suits
>>>> >to look cool. All kinds of grants and scholarships made that possible.
>>>> If
>>>> >you were a student at Assam Engineering College in those heady
>>>> ?engineering?
>>>> >days, and you the poor soul didn?t have a nice pair to wear to go to
>>>> Gauhati
>>>> >in the evenings, you were so out of style and time.
>>>> >So where did the students go to get their suits made? Where else but
>>>> >Mohini?s in Fancy Bazar? The head tailor there was called masterji.
>>>> When
>>>> he
>>>> >was called, he showed up at the front desk with a measuring tape coolly
>>>> >around his neck and the two ends of it dangling. He talked sparingly
>>>> because
>>>> >he knew his business. Any professional person who talks to his or her
>>>> >clients doesn?t know his or her profession. Did you ever talk with your
>>>> >doctor? He will shut you up any time you open your mouth to say
>>>> something
>>>> >important to him ? something vitally important.
>>>> >Anyway, the culture of wearing a good pair of suits migrated down to
>>>> those
>>>> >aspiring to be future engineers too. Such an aspiring soul came to
>>>> board
>>>> in
>>>> >our DS hostel. In a short time, he discarded his white pajamas, blue
>>>> shirts
>>>> >and sandals and began wearing alternating between a light-blue suit and
>>>> a
>>>> >dark-brown suit with appropriately matching shoes whenever he went out,
>>>> >which was often. When you wear a suit, you don?t sit in your room and
>>>> study
>>>> >like so many fools! You go out with other suit-wearers. When you?re out
>>>> with
>>>> >suit-wearers, you go for a long walk up and down through busy
>>>> thoroughfares
>>>> >stopping at stores and buying odd little things showing off what a cool
>>>> guy
>>>> >you were. If there were womenfolk in the stores, it was moksha! There
>>>> were
>>>> >women. But they had more sense. They won?t tango with them.
>>>> >One evening, the student?s father showed up at the hostel enquiring
>>>> about
>>>>
>>> > >his son. But the son wasn?t there for hours, perhaps gallivanting in
>>> the
>>>
>>>> >city street. After hours passed, I came out of my room and asked the
>>>> man
>>>> if
>>>> >I could take a message for his son. ??No, that won?t be necessary...
>>>> I?m
>>>> >financially ruined. I can?t keep up with his demands. Every so often he
>>>> >would come home and tell his mother he needed money. Lots of them. He
>>>> needs
>>>> >to buy suits, shirts and shoes to prepare himself to be an good
>>>> engineer.
>>>> >I?m just a railway clerk at Maligaon... How would I know how engineers
> >>> are
>>>> >made??? said the haggard man wisping in Bengali.
>>>> >It was the most pathetic and most depraved story I had the misfortune
>>>> ever
>>>> >came to hear. If I had a hidden desire to buy a pair of nice suits, it
>>>> >instantly vanished for a few years at least. I came to the US wearing a
>>>> suit
>>>> >but I discarded that in favour of blue jeans and T-shirts. If I care to
>>>> >look, the suit might be still there somewhere in the house. But for
>>>> what
>>>> >should I do that? I?m a non-suit man heart and soul.
>>>> >(The writer is settled at Berkeley, California)
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >------------------------------
>>>> >
>>>> >Message: 3
>>>> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:32:18 -0500
>>>> >From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>> > world <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>> >Message-ID:
>>>> > <7b43066c0903161532y7515bd76n4b059052c9805229 at mail.gmail.com>
> >>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>> >
>>>> >Why?He was the one who is complining about their ignorance.
>>>> >
>>>> >On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his
>>>> own
>>>> >> research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell
>>>> even
>>>> >> without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in
>>>> my
>>>> >> article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing
>>>> based
>>>> on
>>>> >> his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again
>>>> some
>>>> >> educated intellectuals with different agendas.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have
>>>> any
>>>> >> problem.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Rajen Barua
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
>>>> >> > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
>>>> >> > To: assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >> > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
>>>> >> > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha
>>>> with
>>>> his
>>>> >> > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>>>> >> laughter-evoking
>>>> >> > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>>>> >> > KJD
>>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>>> >> > assam mailing list
>>>> >> > assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> assam mailing list
>>>> >> assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >------------------------------
>>>> >
>>>> >Message: 4
>>>> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:40:53 -0500
>>>> >From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>> > world <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>> >Message-ID:
>>>> > <7b43066c0903161540w77182f79ic7ddde0451584e6b at mail.gmail.com>
>>>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>> >
>>>> >Did you read his mail? Very self-explanatory.
>>>> >
>>>> >On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> *** Wahid kokaideu does not have to go looking for Priyom Goswami or
>>>> >> Omolendu Guho for a confrontation. He has presented his findings. If
>>>> >someone
>>>> >> has a problem with it, they can very well
>>>> >> confront him, seek proof or rebut it or whatever.
>>>>
>>> > >>
>>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> At 3:03 PM -0500 3/15/09, kamal deka wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
> >>> >>> Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha
>>>> with
>>>> his
>>>> >>> newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>>>> >laughter-evoking
>>>> >>> buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>>>> >>> KJD
>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>> assam mailing list
>>>> >>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>> > >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> assam mailing list
>>>> >> assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >------------------------------
>>>> >
>>>> >Message: 5
>>>> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:46:33 -0500
>>>> >From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>> > world <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>> >Message-ID:
> >>> > <7b43066c0903161546pa713174q41f2bc298fc85ccc at mail.gmail.com>
>>>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-13
>>>> >
>>>> >According to historian Satyendra Nath Sarma, [*Sarma, Satyendra Nath
>>>> (1976)
>>>> >"Assamese Literature", Harrassowitz, Wiesbaden.*]
>>>> >
>>>> >While the Shan invaders called themselves Tai, they came to be referred
>>>> to
>>>> >as "?s?m", "?sam" and sometimes as "Acam" by the indigenous people of
>>>> the
>>>> >country. The modern Assamese word "?hom" by which the Tai people are
>>>> known
>>>> >is derived from "?s?m" or "?sam". The epithet applied to the Shan
>>>> conquerors
>>>> >was subsequently transferred to the country over which they ruled and
>>>> thus
>>>> >the name K?mar?pa was replaced by ?s?m, which ultimately took the
>>>> >Sanskritized form "Asama", meaning "unequalled, peerless or uneven"
>>>> >[*Banikanta
>>>> >Kakati: "Assamese: Its Formation and Development", p2*]
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Dilip and Dil Deka
>>>> ><dilipdeka at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> The debaters on this subject are looking at only two facets - the
>>>> Tai-Ahom
>>>> >> connection and the possible Sanskritization. There is a third one to
>>>> look
>>>> >> at. The Bodo-Kacharis have been in Assam longer than anyone else and
>>>> their
>>>> >> people are spread all over Assam.
>>>> >> What did they call the land? Many rivers in Assam still have their
>>>> Bodo
>>>> >> names.
>>>> >> What did they call the Tais who came to Assam in the 13th century?
>>>> >> Is there "xo" sound in Bodo language?
>>>> >> It is very possible that some words in Bodo were at the root of
>>>> "Oxom",
>>>> >> "Assam", "Asom" or whatever else. Please do not throw away Dr. A.
>>>> Guha
>>>> or
>>>> >> Baden Powell(is that the name?) yet.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I don't know a word of Bodo language. Could someone who knows Bodo
>>>> comment
>>>> >> on the above?
>>>> >> I did go to the website http://www.bodoland.org/language1.htm and
>>>> found
>>>> >> some interesting words but not much that would help the debate.
>>>> >> Dilip Deka
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ________________________________
>>>> >> From: Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
>>>> >> To: assamnet <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>> >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:21:13 AM
>>>> >> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his
>>>> own
>>>> >> research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell
>>>> even
>>>> >> without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in
>>>> my
>>>> >> article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing
>>>> based
>>>> on
>>>> >> his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again
>>>> some
>>>> >> educated intellectuals with different agendas.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have
> >>> any
>>>> >> problem.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Rajen Barua
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
>>>> >> > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
>>>>
>>> > >> > To: assam at assamnet.org
>>>
>>>> >> > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
>>>> >> > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof..Amalendu Guha
>>>> with
>>>> his
>>>> >> > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>>>> >> laughter-evoking
>>>> >> > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>>>> >> > KJD
>>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>>> >> > assam mailing list
>>>> >> > assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> assam mailing list
>>>> >> assam at assamnet.org
> >>> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> assam mailing list
>>>> >> assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >------------------------------
>>>> >
>>>> >Message: 6
>>>> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:22:57 -0500
>>>> >From: Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>> > world <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>> >Message-ID: <a06240801c5e48f2413b2@[192.168.0.197]>
>>>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed"
>>>> >
>>>> >Does S N Sarma refer to any proof or is it a
>>>> >conjecture? And at what time frame did the name
>>>> >Asam came to be the defining name of the kingdom?
>>>> >Will it be reasonable to surmise that it was much
>>>> >before the British came?
>>>> >
>>>> >The Sanskritized form is a pure and unadulterated conjecture of modern
>>>> >times.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >At 5:46 PM -0500 3/16/09, kamal deka wrote:
>>>> >>According to historian Satyendra Nath Sarma, [*Sarma, Satyendra Nath
>>>> (1976)
>>>> >>"Assamese Literature", Harrassowitz, Wiesbaden.*]
>>>> >>
>>>> >>While the Shan invaders called themselves Tai, they came to be
>>>> referred
>>>> to
>>>> >>as "?s?m", "?sam" and sometimes as "Acam" by the indigenous people of
>>>> the
>>>> >>country. The modern Assamese word "?hom" by which the Tai people are
>>>> known
>>>> >>is derived from "?s?m" or "?sam". The epithet applied to the Shan
>>>> >conquerors
>>>> >>was subsequently transferred to the country over which they ruled and
>>>> thus
>>>> >>the name K?mar?pa was replaced by ?s?m, which ultimately took the
>>>> >>Sanskritized form "Asama", meaning "unequalled,
>>>> >>peerless or uneven" [*Banikanta
>>>> >>Kakati: "Assamese: Its Formation and Development", p2*]
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Dilip and Dil
>>>> >>Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> The debaters on this subject are looking at only two facets - the
>>>> >Tai-Ahom
>>>> >>> connection and the possible Sanskritization. There is a third one
>>>> to
>>>> >look
>>>> >>> at. The Bodo-Kacharis have been in Assam longer than anyone else
>>>> and
>>>> >their
>>>> >>> people are spread all over Assam.
>>>> >>> What did they call the land? Many rivers in Assam still have their
>>>> Bodo
>>>> >>> names.
>>>> >>> What did they call the Tais who came to Assam in the 13th century?
>>>> >>> Is there "xo" sound in Bodo language?
>>>> >>> It is very possible that some words in Bodo were at the root of
>>>> "Oxom",
>>>> >>> "Assam", "Asom" or whatever else. Please do not throw away Dr. A.
>>>> Guha
>>>> >or
>>>> >>> Baden Powell(is that the name?) yet.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I don't know a word of Bodo language. Could someone who knows Bodo
>>>> >comment
>>>> >>> on the above?
>>>> >>> I did go to the website http://www.bodoland.org/language1.htm and
>>>> found
>>>> >>> some interesting words but not much that would help the debate.
> >>> >>> Dilip Deka
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> ________________________________
>>>> >>> From: Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
>>>> >>> To: assamnet <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>> >>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:21:13 AM
>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his
>>>> own
>>>> >>> research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell
>>>> even
>>>>
>>> > >>> without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in
>>> my
>>>
>>>> >>> article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing
>>>> based
>>>> >on
>>>> >>> his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again
> >>> some
>>>> >>> educated intellectuals with different agendas.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have
>>>> any
>>>> >>> problem.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Rajen Barua
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
>>>> >>> > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
>>>> >>> > To: assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >>> > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people
>>>> like
>>>> >>> > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha
>>>> with
>>>> >his
>>>> >>> > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>>>> >>> laughter-evoking
>>>> >>> > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>>>> >>> > KJD
>>>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> >>> > assam mailing list
>>>> >>> > assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >>> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>> assam mailing list
>>>> >>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>> > >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>> assam mailing list
>>>> >>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>>> >>assam mailing list
>>>> >>assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >------------------------------
>>>> >
>>>> >Message: 7
>>>> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:54:43 -0500
>>>> >From: "Rajen & Ajanta Barua" <barua25 at hotmail.com>
>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >To: "A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>> > world" <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>> >Message-ID: <BLU104-DS7C413BFDCE6E3BC440122AD980 at phx.gbl>
>>>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>> >
>>>> >Dear Choudhury:
>>>> >Since you are new to the Assam net, please know that in this net we
>>>> discuss
>>>> >and debate all kinds of intelligent intellectual issues.
>>>> >Please don't take anything personally in assam net. Here we do friendly
>>>> >intellectual hot debates all the time. Kamal, me, Ramgopal, Dilip,
>>>> Chandan,
>>>> >Wahid and many others are friends, and actually many of us live in same
>>>> city
>>>> >Houston as friends. But in hot issues we do heated debates and try to
>>>> thrash
>>>> >out truths for the sake of the community. We understand that sometime
>>>> the
>>>> >truths hurt.
>>>> >
>>>> >When Kamal wrote us as 'neophyte historians' we do not take it
>>>> personally.
>>>> >
>>>> >When I wrote, "There are many ignorant educated people in Assam."
>>>> >Or " There are again some educated intellectuals with different
>>>> agendas."
>>>> >
>>>> >It is same as the statement "There are many educated corrupt people in
>>>> >Assam".
>>>> >I am sure that statement would not mean that all the people of Assam
>>>> are
>>>> >corrupt by any stretch of imagination. On the other hand if I make this
> >>> >statement, many will support me.
>>>> >These do not anyway mean that we are blaming all the people of Assam.
>>>> Nor
>>>> >does it mean that people living outside Assam are superior or better.
>>>> Many
>>>> >from Assam take part here. We never write thinking the people of Assam
>>>> as
>>>> >different from us.
>>>> >I wrote I wrote in similar vein.
>>>> >I am sorry if I somehow hurt yours or anybody's feeling. But frankly
>>>> >speaking that is the flavor and beauty of Assam net.
>>>> >The net is doing a great service to the Assamese community for many
>>>> many
>>>> >years now..
>>>> >I also want to clarify that this is not Friends of Assam net which is
>>>> >different. You may be confused for some reason.
>>>> >Regards
>>>> >
>>>> >Rajen Barua
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >From: Choudhary, H. N. - AMW - MUM
>>>> >Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:29 AM
>>>> >To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world
> >>> >Cc: rc2559 at columbia.edu
>>>>
>>> > >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Dear All,
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Having read the mails and communications on the subject "about the
>>>> name
>>>> >of Assam",
>>>> >
>>>> >I feel that the debate on the subject has become acrimonious and
>>>> >somewhat personal.
>>>> >
>>>> >No one can clam fame to become a historian overnight by writing an
>>>> >article on a historical topic. It is also not appropriate to call them
>>>> >"neophyte historians" as they may not deserve the accolade.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >If I have to give my comments on the following remarks:
>>>> >
>>>> >"There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
>>>> >educated intellectuals with different agendas."
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >-- I will like to reserve my comments.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Please exercise restraint and caution on commenting poorly on the whole
>>>> >of Assam or Assamese people.
>>>> >
>>>> >Your geographical location outside Assam (in USA or elsewhere) does not
>>>> >confer the right to make un-parliamentary
>>>> >
>>>> >comments on the people in Assam.
>>>> >
>>>> >These are sensitive issues.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >I am a recent addition to the group.
>>>> >
>>>> >I have served for many years in the Army and now in an Indian
>>>> corporate.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Having he advantage to experienced the best traditions of our culture
>>>> >and a mix of British culture,
>>>> >
>>>> >I could suggest that views and opinions need not "hurt" anyone. Please
>>>> >show tolerance.
>>>> >
>>>> >If we follow that in the Friends of Assam, we will remain friends.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >I request both parties to cool off.
>>>> >
>>>> >There is too much heat at the moment.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Regards,
>>>> >
>>>> >Col Hemen N Choudhary
>>>> >
>>>> >W Sea Face
>>>> >
>>>> >Mumbai
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >-----Original Message-----
>>>> >From: assam-bounces at assamnet.org [mailto:assam-bounces at assamnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> >Behalf Of Rajen Barua
>>>> >Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 6:51 PM
>>>> >To: assamnet
>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
>>>> >research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
>>>> >without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
>>>> >article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based
>>>> >on his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >There are
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
>>>> >problem.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Rajen Barua
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
>>>> >
>>>> >> From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
> >>> >
>>>> >> To: assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >
>>>> >> Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >> I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
>>>> >
>>>> >> Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with
>>>> >his
>>>> >
>>>> >> newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>>>> >laughter-evoking
>>>> >
>>>> >> buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>>>> >
>>>> >> KJD
>>>> >
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >
>>>> >> assam mailing list
>>>> >
>>>> >> assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >
>>>> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >
>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>> >
>>>> >assam mailing list
>>>> >
>>>> >assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >
>>>> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >DISCLAIMER:
> >>> >Sample Disclaimer added in a VBScript.
>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>> >assam mailing list
>>>> >assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >------------------------------
>>>> >
>>>> >Message: 8
>>>> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:04:05 -0500
>>>> >From: "Rajen & Ajanta Barua" <barua25 at hotmail.com>
>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >To: "A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>> > world" <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>> >Message-ID: <BLU104-DS25A6D9ADC864C80E6C489AD980 at phx.gbl>
>>>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-13"
>>>>
>>> > >
>>>
>>>> >That is exactly what I wrote in my article with more elaboration of the
>>>> word
>>>> >"Acam". I however don't buy the last statement of Banikanta Kakopty',
>>>> >"which ultimately took the Sanskritized form "Asama", meaning
>>>> "unequalled,
>>>> >peerless or uneven" [*Banikanta Kakati: "Assamese: Its Formation and
>>>> >Development", p2*]"
>>>> >
>>>> >Where this Sanskrit came from?
>>>> >
>>>> >Bottomline, the word ASSAM does not have any vestiges of colonial rule.
>>>> >
>>>> >The words OXOM and AHOM came from the Assamese word ACAM
>>>> >
>>>> >I am not writing anything new. People simply need to read history books
>>>> and
>>>> >find out the truth.
>>>> >
>>>> >It is a myth that ASSAM word is derived from OXOM.
>>>> >
>>>> >Rajen Barua
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >From: kamal deka
>>>> >Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:46 PM
>>>> >To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world
>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >According to historian Satyendra Nath Sarma, [*Sarma, Satyendra Nath
>>>> (1976)
>>>> >"Assamese Literature", Harrassowitz, Wiesbaden.*]
>>>> >
>>>> >While the Shan invaders called themselves Tai, they came to be referred
>>>> to
>>>> >as "?s?m", "?sam" and sometimes as "Acam" by the indigenous people of
>>>> the
>>>> >country. The modern Assamese word "?hom" by which the Tai people are
>>>> known
>>>> >is derived from "?s?m" or "?sam". The epithet applied to the Shan
>>>> conquerors
>>>> >was subsequently transferred to the country over which they ruled and
>>>> thus
>>>> >the name K?mar?pa was replaced by ?s?m, which ultimately took the
>>>> >Sanskritized form "Asama", meaning "unequalled, peerless or uneven"
>>>> >[*Banikanta
>>>> >Kakati: "Assamese: Its Formation and Development", p2*]
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Dilip and Dil Deka
>>>> ><dilipdeka at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> The debaters on this subject are looking at only two facets - the
>>>> Tai-Ahom
>>>> >> connection and the possible Sanskritization. There is a third one to
>>>> look
>>>> >> at. The Bodo-Kacharis have been in Assam longer than anyone else and
>>>> their
>>>> >> people are spread all over Assam.
>>>> >> What did they call the land? Many rivers in Assam still have their
>>>> Bodo
>>>> >> names.
>>>> >> What did they call the Tais who came to Assam in the 13th century?
>>>> >> Is there "xo" sound in Bodo language?
>>>> >> It is very possible that some words in Bodo were at the root of
> >>> "Oxom",
>>>> > > "Assam", "Asom" or whatever else. Please do not throw away Dr. A.
>>>> Guha
>>>> or
>>>> >> Baden Powell(is that the name?) yet.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I don't know a word of Bodo language. Could someone who knows Bodo
>>>> comment
>>>> >> on the above?
>>>> >> I did go to the website http://www.bodoland.org/language1.htm and
>>>> found
>>>> >> some interesting words but not much that would help the debate.
>>>> >> Dilip Deka
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ________________________________
>>>> >> From: Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
>>>> >> To: assamnet <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>> >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:21:13 AM
>>>> >> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his
>>>> own
>>>> >> research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell
> >>> even
>>>> >> without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in
>>>> my
>>>> >> article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing
>>>> based
>>>> on
>>>> >> his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again
>>>> some
>>>> >> educated intellectuals with different agendas.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have
>>>> any
>>>> >> problem.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Rajen Barua
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
>>>> > > > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
>>>> >> > To: assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >> > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > I am wondering what prevents Mr..Saleh from confronting people
>>>> like
>>>> >> > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha
>>>> with
>>>> his
>>>> >> > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>>>>
>>> > >> laughter-evoking
>>>
>>>> >> > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>>>> >> > KJD
>>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>>> >> > assam mailing list
>>>> >> > assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> assam mailing list
>>>> >> assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> assam mailing list
>>>> >> assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >>
>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>> >assam mailing list
>>>> >assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >------------------------------
>>>> >
>>>> >Message: 9
>>>> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:37:36 -0500
>>>> >From: "Rajen & Ajanta Barua" <barua25 at hotmail.com>
>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >To: "A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>> > world" <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>> >Message-ID: <BLU104-DS2A75BE0FC0A139348BB75AD980 at phx.gbl>
>>>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>> >
>>>> >Bodo is a Tibeto-Burman language. So far I know no Tibeto Burman
>>>> language
>>>> >has the XO sound which is an Indo-European sound.
>>>> >The Bodo might have taken some Assamese words and might now pronounce
>>>> the
>>>> XO
>>>> >sound. This I donot know for sure. The Bodos were in Assam for about
>>>> 3000
>>>> >years.
>>>> >
>>>> >I have a small book, written in Assamese titled "Boro Bhaxa Xikhya" by
>>>> Mr
>>>> >Sanokyo Brohmo.
>>>> >The book does tell how to pronounce the Assamese letters, that is XO as
>>>> SO
>>>> >or XO?.
>>>> >
>>>> >Mr Baden Powel claims that the Bodo has the word "Ha-com" which mean
>>>> low
>>>> or
>>>> >level land. He states, " The name Assam is most probably traceable to
>>>> the
>>>> >Boro 'Ha-Com' which mean low or level country. The Boro word for water
> >>> (di)
>>>> >has remained in the names of the rivers e.g. Dihong etc". "The Indian
>>>> >Village Community" by Baden Powel (page 135).
>>>> >
>>>> >I could not find the any Boro word 'Ha-Com' in the above book. However
>>>> the
>>>> >book has the word Ha which mean land. There is also a word 'Com' (that
>>>> is
>>>> >Som) which mean time. So we donot get anywhere. Even if we take Baden
>>>> >Powel's word, it again simply mean that Acam or Asam word is a local
>>>> >Assamese word and that it is earlier than Oxom. It also mean that
>>>> Acam/Asam
>>>> >or Assam is not an anglicised word.
>>>> >
>>>> >Note, we will have to take the outside historians of Assam with a grain
>>>> of
>>>> >salt because the same Baden Powel wrote in the same book the following
>>>> >statement>
>>>> >"The local dialect, Assamese, is a comparatively recent modification of
>>>> >Bengali"
>>>> >This how much this famous historian knows about Assam and the Assamese.
> >>> >
>>>> >After reading Gait and many other history books on Assam, I find one
>>>> >Assamese historian who wrote a really good autentic history of Assam.
>>>> He
>>>> is
>>>> >P.C. Choudhury (The Histroy of the Civilisation of the People of
>>>> Assam).
>>>> >Anybody who wants to know about the past history of Assam should read
>>>> it.
>>>> >
>>>> >For our cultural past, one should read Dimbeswar Neog.
>>>> >
>>>> >Rajen Barua
>>>> >
>>>> >From: Dilip and Dil Deka
>>>> >Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:57 AM
>>>> >To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world
>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >The debaters on this subject are looking at only two facets - the
>>>> Tai-Ahom
>>>> >connection and the possible Sanskritization. There is a third one to
>>>> look
>>>> >at. The Bodo-Kacharis have been in Assam longer than anyone else and
>>>> their
>>>> >people are spread all over Assam.
>>>> >What did they call the land? Many rivers in Assam still have their Bodo
>>>> >names.
>>>> >What did they call the Tais who came to Assam in the 13th century?
>>>> >Is there "xo" sound in Bodo language?
>>>> >It is very possible that some words in Bodo were at the root of "Oxom",
>>>> >"Assam", "Asom" or whatever else. Please do not throw away Dr. A. Guha
>>>> or
>>>> >Baden Powell(is that the name?) yet.
>>>> >
>>>> >I don't know a word of Bodo language. Could someone who knows Bodo
>>>> comment
>>>>
>>> > >on the above?
>>>
>>>> >I did go to the website http://www.bodoland.org/language1.htm and
>>>> found
>>>> some
>>>> >interesting words but not much that would help the debate.
>>>> >Dilip Deka
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >________________________________
>>>> >From: Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
>>>> >To: assamnet <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>> >Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:21:13 AM
>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his own
>>>> >research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell even
>>>> >without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
>>>> >article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing based
>>>> on
>>>> >his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again some
>>>> >educated intellectuals with different agendas.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have any
>>>> >problem.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Rajen Barua
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
>>>> >> From: kjit..deka at gmail.com
>>>> >> To: assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >> Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
>>>> >> Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha with
>>>> his
>>>> >> newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>>>> laughter-evoking
> >>> >> buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>>>> >> KJD
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> assam mailing list
>>>> >> assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>> >assam mailing list
>>>> >assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>> >assam mailing list
>>>> >assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >------------------------------
>>>> >
>>>> >Message: 10
>>>> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:31:03 -0500
>>>> >From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>> > world <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>> >Message-ID:
>>>> > <7b43066c0903162031i3398f79chb4aff0de6b0a7870 at mail.gmail.com>
> >>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>> >
>>>> >I do agree
>>>> >
>>>> >On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Rajen & Ajanta Barua
>>>> ><barua25 at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Dear Choudhury:
>>>> >> Since you are new to the Assam net, please know that in this net we
>>>> >discuss
>>>> >> and debate all kinds of intelligent intellectual issues.
>>>> >> Please don't take anything personally in assam net. Here we do
>>>> friendly
>>>> >> intellectual hot debates all the time. Kamal, me, Ramgopal, Dilip,
>>>> >Chandan,
>>>> >> Wahid and many others are friends, and actually many of us live in
>>>> same
>>>> >city
>>>> >> Houston as friends. But in hot issues we do heated debates and try
>>>> to
>>>> >thrash
>>>> > > out truths for the sake of the community. We understand that
>>>> sometime
>>>> the
>>>> >> truths hurt.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> When Kamal wrote us as 'neophyte historians' we do not take it
>>>> personally.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> When I wrote, "There are many ignorant educated people in Assam."
>>>> >> Or " There are again some educated intellectuals with different
>>>> agendas."
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It is same as the statement "There are many educated corrupt people
>>>> in
>>>> >> Assam".
>>>> >> I am sure that statement would not mean that all the people of Assam
>>>> are
>>>> >> corrupt by any stretch of imagination. On the other hand if I make
>>>> this
>>>> >> statement, many will support me.
>>>> >> These do not anyway mean that we are blaming all the people of
>>>> Assam.
>>>> Nor
>>>> >> does it mean that people living outside Assam are superior or
>>>> better.
>>>> Many
>>>> >> from Assam take part here. We never write thinking the people of
>>>> Assam
>>>> as
>>>> >> different from us.
>>>> >> I wrote I wrote in similar vein.
>>>> >> I am sorry if I somehow hurt yours or anybody's feeling. But frankly
>>>>
>>> > >> speaking that is the flavor and beauty of Assam net.
>>>
>>>> >> The net is doing a great service to the Assamese community for many
>>>> many
>>>> >> years now.
>>>> >> I also want to clarify that this is not Friends of Assam net which
>>>> is
>>>> >> different. You may be confused for some reason.
>>>> >> Regards
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Rajen Barua
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> From: Choudhary, H. N. - AMW - MUM
>>>> >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:29 AM
>>>> >> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>> world
>>>> > > Cc: rc2559 at columbia.edu
>>>> >> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Dear All,
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Having read the mails and communications on the subject "about the
>>>> name
>>>> >> of Assam",
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I feel that the debate on the subject has become acrimonious and
>>>> >> somewhat personal.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> No one can clam fame to become a historian overnight by writing an
>>>> >> article on a historical topic. It is also not appropriate to call
>>>> them
>>>> >> "neophyte historians" as they may not deserve the accolade.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> If I have to give my comments on the following remarks:
> >>> >>
>>>> >> "There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again
>>>> some
>>>> >> educated intellectuals with different agendas."
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> -- I will like to reserve my comments.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Please exercise restraint and caution on commenting poorly on the
>>>> whole
>>>> >> of Assam or Assamese people.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Your geographical location outside Assam (in USA or elsewhere) does
>>>> not
>>>> >> confer the right to make un-parliamentary
>>>> >>
>>>> >> comments on the people in Assam.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> These are sensitive issues.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I am a recent addition to the group.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I have served for many years in the Army and now in an Indian
>>>> corporate.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Having he advantage to experienced the best traditions of our
>>>> culture
>>>> >> and a mix of British culture,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I could suggest that views and opinions need not "hurt" anyone.
> >>> Please
>>>> >> show tolerance.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> If we follow that in the Friends of Assam, we will remain friends.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I request both parties to cool off..
>>>> >>
>>>> >> There is too much heat at the moment.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Regards,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Col Hemen N Choudhary
>>>> >>
>>>> >> W Sea Face
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Mumbai
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>>> >> From: assam-bounces at assamnet.org [mailto:assam-bounces at assamnet.org
>>>> ]
>>>> On
>>>> >> Behalf Of Rajen Barua
>>>> >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 6:51 PM
>>>> >> To: assamnet
>>>> >> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his
>>>> own
>>>> >> research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell
>>>> even
>>>> >> without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in
>>>> my
>>>> >> article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing
>>>> based
>>>> >> on his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> There are
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have
>>>> any
>>>> >> problem.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Rajen Barua
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > To: assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha
>>>> with
>>>> > > his
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>>>> >> laughter-evoking
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > KJD
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > assam mailing list
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>
>>> > >>
>>>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>
>>>> >> assam mailing list
>>>> >>
>>>> >> assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >>
>>>> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> DISCLAIMER:
>>>> >> Sample Disclaimer added in a VBScript.
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> assam mailing list
>>>> >> assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> assam mailing list
> >>> >> assam at assamnet.org
>>>> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >------------------------------
>>>> >
>>>> >Message: 11
>>>> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:54:19 -0500
>>>> >From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>> > world <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>> >Message-ID:
>>>> > <7b43066c0903162054s1cf4f395wc7673fbdc0945fb8 at mail.gmail.com>
>>>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>> >
>>>> >I have been given to understand that even the British could not
>>>> pronounce
>>>> >the XO sound.The names of many tea-gardens in Assam are spelled as HO
>>>> rather
>>>> >than XO.There is a tea-garden close to Tinsukia named HUKANPUKHURI
>>>> instead
>>>> >of XUKANPUKHURI.A passing remark only.
>>>> >By the way,have you read the book published by Lawyer's Book Stall
>>>> recently
>>>> >which was translated from French into English ? The book is related to
> >>> >a diary of a French traveller.In that translated book,the name of our
>>>> >state is written as ASEM.
>>>> >KJD
>>>> >
>>>> >On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 8:37 PM, Rajen & Ajanta Barua
>>>> ><barua25 at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Bodo is a Tibeto-Burman language. So far I know no Tibeto Burman
>>>> language
>>>> >> has the XO sound which is an Indo-European sound.
>>>> >> The Bodo might have taken some Assamese words and might now
>>>> pronounce
>>>> the
>>>> >> XO sound. This I donot know for sure. The Bodos were in Assam for
>>>> about
>>>> >3000
>>>> >> years.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I have a small book, written in Assamese titled "Boro Bhaxa Xikhya"
>>>> by
>>>> Mr
>>>> >> Sanokyo Brohmo.
>>>> >> The book does tell how to pronounce the Assamese letters, that is XO
>>>> as
>>>> SO
>>>> >> or XO?.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Mr Baden Powel claims that the Bodo has the word "Ha-com" which mean
>>>> low
>>>> >or
>>>> >> level land. He states, " The name Assam is most probably traceable
>>>> to
>>>> the
>>>> >> Boro 'Ha-Com' which mean low or level country. The Boro word for
>>>> water
>>>> >(di)
>>>> >> has remained in the names of the rivers e.g. Dihong etc". "The
>>>> Indian
>>>> >> Village Community" by Baden Powel (page 135).
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I could not find the any Boro word 'Ha-Com' in the above book.
>>>> However
>>>> the
>>>> >> book has the word Ha which mean land. There is also a word 'Com'
>>>> (that
>>>> is
>>>> >> Som) which mean time. So we donot get anywhere. Even if we take
>>>> Baden
>>>> >> Powel's word, it again simply mean that Acam or Asam word is a local
>>>> >> Assamese word and that it is earlier than Oxom. It also mean that
>>>> >Acam/Asam
>>>> >> or Assam is not an anglicised word.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Note, we will have to take the outside historians of Assam with a
>>>> grain
>>>> of
>>>> >> salt because the same Baden Powel wrote in the same book the
>>>> following
>>>> >> statement>
>>>> >> "The local dialect, Assamese, is a comparatively recent modification
>>>> of
>>>> >> Bengali"
>>>> >> This how much this famous historian knows about Assam and the
>>>> Assamese.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> After reading Gait and many other history books on Assam, I find one
>>>> >> Assamese historian who wrote a really good autentic history of
>>>> Assam.
>>>> He
>>>> >is
>>>> >> P.C. Choudhury (The Histroy of the Civilisation of the People of
>>>> Assam).
>>>> >> Anybody who wants to know about the past history of Assam should
>>>> read
>>>> it.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> For our cultural past, one should read Dimbeswar Neog.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Rajen Barua
>>>> >>
>>>> >> From: Dilip and Dil Deka
>>>> >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:57 AM
>>>> >> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>> world
>>>> >> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The debaters on this subject are looking at only two facets - the
>>>> Tai-Ahom
>>>>
>>> > >> connection and the possible Sanskritization. There is a third one
>>> to
>>>
>>>> look
>>>> > > at. The Bodo-Kacharis have been in Assam longer than anyone else
> >>> and
>>>> their
>>>> >> people are spread all over Assam.
>>>> >> What did they call the land? Many rivers in Assam still have their
>>>> Bodo
>>>> >> names.
>>>> >> What did they call the Tais who came to Assam in the 13th century?
>>>> >> Is there "xo" sound in Bodo language?
>>>> >> It is very possible that some words in Bodo were at the root of
>>>> "Oxom",
>>>> >> "Assam", "Asom" or whatever else. Please do not throw away Dr. A.
>>>> Guha
>>>> or
>>>> >> Baden Powell(is that the name?) yet.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I don't know a word of Bodo language. Could someone who knows Bodo
>>>> comment
>>>> >> on the above?
>>>> >> I did go to the website http://www.bodoland.org/language1.htm and
>>>> found
>>>> >> some interesting words but not much that would help the debate.
>>>> >> Dilip Deka
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ________________________________
>>>> >> From: Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
>>>> >> To: assamnet <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>> >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:21:13 AM
> >>> >> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ...
>>
>> [Message clipped]
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