[Assam] assam Digest, Vol 44, Issue 23 - About the name Assam
Chan Mahanta
cmahanta at charter.net
Wed Mar 18 16:47:52 PDT 2009
At 5:36 PM -0500 3/18/09, kamal deka wrote:
>You have FINALLY agreed that there is no unified opinion.Therefore you have
>answered your own question.
*** I did?
Well, I learn something everyday :-)!
>
>On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>> At 10:55 PM -0500 3/17/09, kamal deka wrote:
>>
>>> If there is no unified opinion on an issue,one can argue both ways.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *** How? Just because there is no 'unified opinion" ( never mind among
>> whom) on what Assam used to be known before Oxom became the commonly
>> accepted name, HOW can someone argue that it was a name created by the
>> Brits ( that is what OXX claims) , particularly in the face of written
>> proofMughal, British and Dutch that the name Assam/Acham/Acam/Assamer, Asam
>> etc. was used long before the British arrived in Assam?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> So
>>> elementary---there is no need to drag Watson's name to print.
>>> There are couple of reasons as to why that travelogue may not be accepted
>>> as
>>> the final proof.I will deal with that later.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> THERE IS NO CONSENSUS AMONG ASSAMESE SCHOLARS IN SO FAR AS THE ETYMOLOGY
>>>>
>>>>> OF >ASSAM IS CONCERNED.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *** That does not make Assam an anglicized form as claimed by OXX and as
>>>> Kamal and Dilip seem to agree. One however hardly needs to argue the
>>>> point.
>>>> As Sherlock Holmes might have said, it is elementary Dr. Watson.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >I HAPPENED TO SPEAK TO A FEW INTELLECTUALS,WHO ARE VERY FAMILIAR WITH
>>>> THE
>>>>
>>>>> DUTCH DOCUMENT REFUSE TO ACCEPT THAT AS AN AUTHENTIC PROOF.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *** Did they give any reason as to WHY it is NOT an authentic proof,
>>>> acceptable to their scholarships? And if they don't , should we, as
>>>> thinking
>>>> and rational people accept the verdict of somebody who just doesn't
>>>> like it
>>>> - never mind why?
>>>> Why should we even consider them SCHOLARS if they cannot make a
>>>> persuasive
>>>> argument why the Dutch document is not authentic?
>>>>
>>>> To accept it as the last word because some ' certified scholar ' says so
>>>> will make us seem like sheep, unable to exercise our own reasoning
>>>> abilities. I would want to see the certification of those scholars
>>>> first :-).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At 5:43 PM -0500 3/17/09, kamal deka wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I would like to conclude by saying the following;
>>>>> THERE IS NO CONSENSUS AMONG ASSAMESE SCHOLARS IN SO FAR AS THE
>>>>> ETYMOLOGY
>>>>> OF
>>>>> ASSAM IS CONCERNED.THEY ARE DIVIDED ON RACIAL LINES.THE TRIBAL SCHOLARS
>>>>> VEHEMENTLY OPPOSES THE NAME CHANGE,WHILE THE PLAIN GROUPS FAVORS IT.
>>>>> I HAPPENED TO SPEAK TO A FEW INTELLECTUALS,WHO ARE VERY FAMILIAR WITH
> >>>> THE
>>>>> DUTCH DOCUMENT REFUSE TO ACCEPT THAT AS AN AUTHENTIC PROOF.
>>>>> AGAIN, THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT ANY NEW DISCOVERY,BE IT THE BOGORI(
>>>>> OLIVE),BENGANA ( EGG-PLANT) OR BURONJI ( HISTORY) MUST PASS THE
>>>>> CREDIBILITY
>>>>> TEST.THAT YARDSTICK OUGHT TO BE APPLIED EQUALLY TO ALL.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Dilip and Dil Deka <
>>>>> dilipdeka at yahoo.com
>>>>> >wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> '' In the meantime, verifiable proof exists
>>>>>
>>>>>> to claim with certainty that Assam is NOT an anglicized form of what
>>>>>> the historical name of what we call Oxom today, because it predates
>>>>>> the British arrival in Assam. Pretty simple."
>>>>>> ------ As I said, the proof provided shows outsiders (foreigners)
>>>>>> called
>>>>>> the land "Assam" or "Asem" or whatever else. That includes the Dutch,
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Mughals, and the British. There is also proof that the Dutch used the
>>>>>> name
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> before the British did. It still does not prove that the residents
>>> of
>>>
>>>> Assam
>>>>>> called their land by that name. That is the point of my bringing in
> >>>>> Bodo
>>>>>> language side of the equation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> " >I personally feel deeper research has to be done into Bodo language
>>>>>> >and folk-literature to see if the >root of the word Oxom can be
>>>>>> >found.
>>>>>> That is one's prerogative. Like it is for creationists to find proof
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> debunk evolution."
>>>>>> ------- Your words have no relevance here. You are reading me wrong. I
>>>>>> am
>>>>>> not debunking the statement that the land in question was called Assam
>>>>>> (or
>>>>>> whatever else) by outsiders before the British. My curiosity is about
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> "Oxom"
>>>
>>>> and "Ahom". When did these words come into use? The Tais did not call
>>>>>> themselves Ahom. So who started that word? Do the words Ahom and Oxom
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> some connection? I am suggesting that Bodo language may give some
>>>>>> clue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it fair to say that this whole Assamnet debate wouldn't have
>>>>>> started
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> OXX had used the word "Westernized" in stead of "Anglicized" to
>>>>>> describe
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> word "Assam"?
>>>>>> I agree that "Asom" is not a suitable replacement for "Assam" as
>>>>>> proposed
>>>>>> by the Assam govt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>================================================================================
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
>>>>>> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>>>> world
>>>>>> <
>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org>; wahid.saleh at gmail.com
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 3:51:58 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Assam] assam Digest, Vol 44, Issue 23 - About the name
>>>>>> Assam
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >I personally feel deeper research has to be done into Bodo language
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > >and folk-literature to see if the >root of the word Oxom can be
>>>>> > >found.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *** That is one's prerogative. Like it is for creationists to find
>>>>>> proof to debunk evolution. In the meantime, verifiable proof exists
>>>>>> to claim with certainty that Assam is NOT an anglicized form of what
>>>>>> the historical name of what we call Oxom today, because it predates
>>>>>> the British arrival in Assam. Pretty simple.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> THAT was the point of contention: What OXX's website claimed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 10:02 AM -0700 3/17/09, Dilip and Dil Deka wrote:
>>>>>> >Mr. Saleh,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >You said, " All I did was to search for available information in
>>>>>> >publications (in English and other languages) and
>>>>>> >compile the information and publish an article to show that the name
>>>>>> Assam
>>>>>> >was not given by the British. The name existed before the British
>>>>>> >came to Assam."
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Your interest in the subject and the time you spent in the
>>>>>> >research should be appreciated by all who are somewhat interested in
>>>>>> >Assam's history. In the above paragraph, you have also made it very
>>>>>> >clear that your goal was to show that other outsiders (other than
> >>>>> >the British) also called today's Oxom as Assam or something similar.
>>>>>> >I do not believe you wanted to get into the debate over whether the
>>>>>> >name Assam (or something similar) came first, or Oxom. As we have
>>>>>> >seen in this debate and elsewhere, it will be very hard to pinpoint
>>>>>> >when the name Oxom came into being. Dr. Yasmin Saikia in her
>>>>>> >research concluded that a name for the Ahom kingdom does not appear
>>>>>> >in the Buranjis remaining today. As we know a large number of
>>>>>> >Buranjis were burnt under the care of Kirti Charan Barbarua. There
>>>>>> >may be some hiding in some village in Assam. Who knows?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I personally feel deeper research has to be done into Bodo language
>>>>>> >and folk-literature to see if the root of the word Oxom can be found.
>>>>>> >I asked a question a few days ago - who gave the name Ahom to the
>>>>>> >Tai group and why did the Tai people so willingly accepted it?
>>>>>> >No one has answered it.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Again, thanks for your dedication to things Assamese.
> >>>>> >Dilip Deka
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >From: Wahid Saleh(GM) <wahid.saleh at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>> >To: assam at assamnet..org
>>>>>> >Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:01:54 AM
>>>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] assam Digest, Vol 44, Issue 23 - About the name
>>>>>> Assam
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >>>I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
>>>>>> >>>Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> >>>his newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>>>>>> >>>laughter-evoking buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's
>>>>>> history
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >It was not my intention to confront others. All I did was to search
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> >available information in publications (in English and other
>>>>>> languages)
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> >compile the information and publish an article to show that the name
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> Assam
>>>
>>>> >was not given by the British. The name existed before the British
>>>>>> came
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> >Assam.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >In my search for information on this subject I contacted persons who
>>>>>> knew
>>>>>> >about Indian, Dutch, English and Portuguese histories, did research
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> >published papers and books in their respective fields. They were
>>>>>> based
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> >Australia, Bangladesh, Iran, India, the Netherlands, Portugal,
>>>>>> Vietnam,
>>>>>> >Thailand, UK and USA. Most of them are considered to be authorities
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> >respective fields. I also did some research on Marco Polo and Huen
>>>>>> Tsang
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> >find out if they mentioned the name Assam in their travel journals.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >During this process I stumbled upon the fact that the person named
>>>>>> Glanius
>>>>>> >who is mentioned by several well-known historians did not accompany
>>>>>> Mir
>>>>>> >Jumla and also never visited Assam. I also published an article on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> >subject.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >We all have the freedom to accept the mentioned books/publications as
>>>>>> >historical documents or reject them totally.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I quoted Prof. Priyam Goswami from a news item published by Times of
>>>>>> India
>>>>>> >(26-02-06) with the title "Assam to fall off the map, turn Asom" as
>>>>>> Mr.
>>>>>> Deka
>>>>>> >wanted explanations from someone competent authority.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>>> >>I remain unconvinced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > >>In the fitness of thing,the entire matter ought to be left for
>>>>> those,who
>>>>>
>>>>> >are in the business of reading,analyzing and interpreting the
>>>>>> nitty-gritty
>>>>>> >>historical facts and data.
>>>>>> >>I refuse to accept the interpretation put forward by Saleh/Barua as
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> >>unshakable truth.
>>>>>> >>As far as I am concerned,their explanation is of no
>>>>>> consequence,pending
>>>>>> >full verification by the competent ones.
>>>>>> >>Meanwhile,those self-proclaimed neo-historians should stop the
>>>>>> tamasha
> >>>>> of
>>>>>> >>re-writing and re-interpreting facts in regard to Assam's
>>>>>> >>history,who,perhaps,haven't studied the subject seriously save
>>>>>> high-school
>>>>>> >>history :-)
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Mr. Amalendu Guha and Kalika Purna were quoted by Mr. Deka and my
>>>>>> reply
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> >only in reference to the said quotes.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Both Prof Goswami and Mr. Guha wrote within the framework of
>>>>>> information
>>>>>> >available to them. This does not mean that they are "buffons". They
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> >contributing their own way to the knowledge of the society. In and
>>>>>> outside
>>>>>> >their academic circle they are respected academicians. We may agree
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> >them or reject their arguments without using some adjectives which
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> >don't deserve.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Wahid Saleh
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>>>>> >Van: assam-bounces at assamnet.org [mailto:assam-bounces at assamnet.org]
>>>>>> Namens
>>>>>> >assam-request at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >Verzonden: dinsdag 17 maart 2009 7:30
> >>>>> >Aan: assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >Onderwerp: assam Digest, Vol 44, Issue 23
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Send assam mailing list submissions to
>>>>>> > assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>>> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>>> > assam-request at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> > assam-owner at assamnet.org
>>>
>>>> >
>>>>>> >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>>>> >than "Re: Contents of assam digest..."
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Today's Topics:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 1. Re: About the name Assam (Choudhary, H. N. - AMW - MUM)
>>>>>> > 2. Of Wearing Suits and their Side-effects - Kalyan
>>>>>> > Dutta-Choudhury, The Sentinel (Ram Sarangapani)
>>>>>> > 3. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
>>>>>> > 4. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
>>>>>> > 5. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
>>>>>> > 6. Re: About the name Assam (Chan Mahanta)
>>>>>> > 7. Re: About the name Assam (Rajen & Ajanta Barua)
>>>>>> > 8. Re: About the name Assam (Rajen & Ajanta Barua)
>>>>>> > 9. Re: About the name Assam (Rajen & Ajanta Barua)
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> > 10. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
>>>
>>>> > 11. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
>>>>>> > 12. Fragmented Memories: Struggling to be Tai-Ahom in India - by
>>>>>> > Yasmin Saikia (Dilip and Dil Deka)
>>>>>> > 13. Re: Fragmented Memories: Struggling to be Tai-Ahom in India
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> > by Yasmin Saikia (Babul Gogoi)
>>>>>> > 14. Sanskrit and Assamese (Alpana B. Sarangapani)
>>>>>> > 15. Re: About the name Assam (kamal deka)
>>>>>> > 16.. Web site of the "Adinor Sambad" (Buljit Buragohain)
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Message: 1
>>>>>> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:59:07 +0530
>>>>>> >From: "Choudhary, H. N. - AMW - MUM" <HNChoudhary at amwasia.com>
>>>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >To: "A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>>>> > world" <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>>>> >Cc: rc2559 at columbia.edu
>>>>>> >Message-ID:
>>>>>> > <C277F575BBB7F54B9DB20593FACB611003A415 at amwbkcexch.amwasia.com>
>>>>>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Dear All,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Having read the mails and communications on the subject "about the
>>>>>> name
>>>>>> >of Assam",
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I feel that the debate on the subject has become acrimonious and
>>>>>> >somewhat personal.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >No one can clam fame to become a historian overnight by writing an
>>>>>> >article on a historical topic. It is also not appropriate to call
>>>>>> them
>>>>>> >"neophyte historians" as they may not deserve the accolade.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >If I have to give my comments on the following remarks:
> >>>>> >
>>>>>> >"There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again
>>>>>> some
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > >educated intellectuals with different agendas."
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >-- I will like to reserve my comments.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Please exercise restraint and caution on commenting poorly on the
>>>>>> whole
>>>>>> >of Assam or Assamese people.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Your geographical location outside Assam (in USA or elsewhere) does
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> >confer the right to make un-parliamentary
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >comments on the people in Assam.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >These are sensitive issues.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I am a recent addition to the group.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I have served for many years in the Army and now in an Indian
>>>>>> corporate.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Having he advantage to experienced the best traditions of our culture
>>>>>> >and a mix of British culture,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I could suggest that views and opinions need not "hurt" anyone.
>>>>>> Please
>>>>>> >show tolerance.
>>>>>> >
> >>>>> >If we follow that in the Friends of Assam, we will remain friends.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I request both parties to cool off.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >There is too much heat at the moment.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Regards,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Col Hemen N Choudhary
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >W Sea Face
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Mumbai
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >-----Original Message-----
>>>>>> >From: assam-bounces at assamnet.org [mailto:assam-bounces at assamnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> >Behalf Of Rajen Barua
>>>>>> >Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 6:51 PM
>>>>>> >To: assamnet
>>>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >
>>>
>>>> >What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his
>>>>>> own
>>>>>> >research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell
>>>>>> even
>>>>>> >without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
>>>>>> >article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing
>>>>>> based
>>>>>> >on his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >There are
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> >problem.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Rajen Barua
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >> Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
>>>
>>>> >
>>>>>> >> From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> To: assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> >his
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>>>>>> >laughter-evoking
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> KJD
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> assam mailing list
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> assam at assamnet..org
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >assam mailing list
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >DISCLAIMER:
>>>>>> >Sample Disclaimer added in a VBScript.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >------------------------------
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Message: 2
>>>>>> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:24:16 -0500
>>>>>> >From: Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
> >>>>> >Subject: [Assam] Of Wearing Suits and their Side-effects - Kalyan
>>>>>> > Dutta-Choudhury, The Sentinel
>>>>>> >To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>>>> > world <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>>>> >Message-ID:
>>>>>> > <6e564ddf0903161424p5482b16es190baf547c7cd65d at mail.gmail.com>
>>>>>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Netters,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Kalyan da writes well, and I kind of like this piece. Reminds me of
>>>>>> Gandhi,
>>>>>> >"Imitating the English Gentleman" which we had at high school, where
>>>>>> Gandhi
>>>>>> >declares
>>>>>> >"And Mr. Bell rang the bell of Alarm in my ears, and I awoke" after
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> felt
>>>>>> >guilty asking money from back home for his elocution and music
>>>>>> lessons
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> >London.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >"The head tailor there was called masterji. When he was called, he
>>>>>> showed
>>>>>> up
>>>>>> >at the front desk with a measuring tape coolly around his neck and
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> two
>>>>>> >ends of it dangling. He talked sparingly because he knew his
> >>>>> business.
>>>>>> Any
>>>>>> >professional person who talks to his or her clients doesn?t know his
>>>>>> or
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > her
>>>>>
>>>>> >profession." - K DC
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >This is just precious. I remember going for my first job interview at
>>>>>> >Guwahati.. Didn't have a suit, so I borrowed a jacket from a friend -
>>>>>> similar
>>>>>> >shade. But the jacket was a size smaller. So, I used the next best
>>>>>> option
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> >slung the jacket over my shoulders - to look hip, and make it look
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> >was my suit.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >--Ram
>>>>>> >_______________
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >*Kalyan Dutta-Choudhury
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >*A television programme showed men?s suits selling for upwards of,
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> >incredible story, forty three thousand dollars. No, the suits weren?t
>>>>>> made
>>>>>> >of gold or titanium or any other precious metal. They were regular
>>>>>> woollen
>>>>>> >suits but the wool came from some animals grazing in some kind of
>>>>>> grass
>>>>>> >which grew in cool highlands of South America. The interviewer
>>>>>> sported
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> >high-priced suit of that kind of lineage but he didn?t look any
>>>>>> different
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >than when he was wearing his regular suit of approximately of
>>> same
>>>
>>>> colour
>>>>>> >and texture. But that?s purely my judgement.
>>>>>> >Then, what is the hype about paying forty three thousand dollars for
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> suit?
>>>>>> >That lies in the psychology of buying at one end, and selling at the
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> >end, of the business enterprise. The buyer may be a craven soul like
>>>>>> Barney
>>>>>> >Madeoff who made his money by bilking others, but how the seller, in
>>>>>> right
>>>>>> >conscientiousness, could sell the high-priced suits? They are made of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >same mould. They feed off each other?s depravity.
>>>>>> >A relative of ours went to France, of many other places, for a visit
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> see
>>>>>> >how things were different up there.. It seemed he made lots of money.
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> Who
>>>
>>>> >doesn?t make money in Assam? Only fools don?t. Looking around in
>>>>>> Paris,
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> >found a tailoring shop which made suits. Asking for the price of a
>>>>>> suit,
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> >was shocked to learn the price of suits ? way too high. With that
>>>>>> kind
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> >money, he quickly calculated using his handy pocket calculator: ??I
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> >make two pairs of suits with heavier clothing at Mohini?s in
>>>>>> Guwahati.??
>>>>>> >That?s what he did. The suits were a bit ill-fitting and out of
>>>>>> style.
>>>>>> But
>>>>>> >who cares about good fit and style in the non-suit domain like
>>>>>> Guwahati!
>>>>>> >It?s the quality of clothing that matters.
>>>>>> >In the late 50s and early 60s, there was a veritable mania of wearing
>>>>>> suits
>>>>>> >to look cool. All kinds of grants and scholarships made that
>>>>>> possible.
>>>>>> If
>>>>>> >you were a student at Assam Engineering College in those heady
> >>>>> ?engineering?
>>>>>> >days, and you the poor soul didn?t have a nice pair to wear to go to
>>>>>> Gauhati
>>>>>> >in the evenings, you were so out of style and time.
>>>>>> >So where did the students go to get their suits made? Where else but
>>>>>> >Mohini?s in Fancy Bazar? The head tailor there was called masterji.
>>>>>> When
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> >was called, he showed up at the front desk with a measuring tape
>>>>>> coolly
>>>>>> >around his neck and the two ends of it dangling. He talked sparingly
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> >he knew his business. Any professional person who talks to his or her
>>>>>> >clients doesn?t know his or her profession. Did you ever talk with
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> >doctor? He will shut you up any time you open your mouth to say
>>>>>> something
>>>>>> >important to him ? something vitally important.
>>>>>> >Anyway, the culture of wearing a good pair of suits migrated down to
>>>>>> those
>>>>>> >aspiring to be future engineers too. Such an aspiring soul came to
>>>>>> board
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> >our DS hostel. In a short time, he discarded his white pajamas, blue
> >>>>> shirts
>>>>>> >and sandals and began wearing alternating between a light-blue suit
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> >dark-brown suit with appropriately matching shoes whenever he went
>>>>>> out,
>>>>>> >which was often. When you wear a suit, you don?t sit in your room and
>>>>>> study
>>>>>> >like so many fools! You go out with other suit-wearers. When you?re
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> >suit-wearers, you go for a long walk up and down through busy
>>>>>> thoroughfares
>>>>>> >stopping at stores and buying odd little things showing off what a
>>>>>> cool
>>>>>> guy
>>>>>> >you were. If there were womenfolk in the stores, it was moksha! There
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> >women. But they had more sense. They won?t tango with them.
>>>>>> >One evening, the student?s father showed up at the hostel enquiring
>>>>>> about
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > >his son. But the son wasn?t there for hours, perhaps gallivanting
>>>>> in
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>> >city street. After hours passed, I came out of my room and asked the
>>>>>> man
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> >I could take a message for his son. ??No, that won?t be necessary...
>>>>>> I?m
>>>>>> >financially ruined. I can?t keep up with his demands. Every so often
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> >would come home and tell his mother he needed money. Lots of them. He
>>>>>> needs
>>>>>> >to buy suits, shirts and shoes to prepare himself to be an good
>>>>>> engineer.
>>>>>> >I?m just a railway clerk at Maligaon... How would I know how
>>>>>> engineers
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> >made??? said the haggard man wisping in Bengali.
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >It was the most pathetic and most depraved story I had the
>>> misfortune
>>>
>>>> ever
>>>>>> >came to hear. If I had a hidden desire to buy a pair of nice suits,
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> >instantly vanished for a few years at least. I came to the US wearing
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> suit
>>>>>> >but I discarded that in favour of blue jeans and T-shirts. If I care
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> >look, the suit might be still there somewhere in the house. But for
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> >should I do that? I?m a non-suit man heart and soul.
>>>>>> >(The writer is settled at Berkeley, California)
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >------------------------------
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Message: 3
>>>>>> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:32:18 -0500
>>>>>> >From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
>>>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> > world <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>
>>>> >Message-ID:
>>>>>> > <7b43066c0903161532y7515bd76n4b059052c9805229 at mail.gmail.com>
>>>>>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Why?He was the one who is complining about their ignorance.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his
>>>>>> own
>>>>>> >> research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell
> >>>>> even
>>>>>> >> without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> >> article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing
>>>>>> based
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> >> his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> >> educated intellectuals with different agendas.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> >> problem.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Rajen Barua
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
>>>>>> >> > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
>>>>>> >> > To: assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >> > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> >> > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha
> >>>>> with
>>>>>> his
>>>>>> >> > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>>>>>> >> laughter-evoking
>>>>>> >> > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>>>>>> >> > KJD
>>>>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >> > assam mailing list
>>>>>> >> > assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >> assam mailing list
>>>>>> >> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >------------------------------
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Message: 4
>>>>>> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:40:53 -0500
>>>>>> >From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
>>>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>>>> > world <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>>>> >Message-ID:
>>>>>> > <7b43066c0903161540w77182f79ic7ddde0451584e6b at mail.gmail.com>
>>>>>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Did you read his mail? Very self-explanatory.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> *** Wahid kokaideu does not have to go looking for Priyom Goswami
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> >> Omolendu Guho for a confrontation. He has presented his findings.
>>>>>> If
>>>>>> >someone
>>>>>> >> has a problem with it, they can very well
>>>>>> >> confront him, seek proof or rebut it or whatever.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> At 3:03 PM -0500 3/15/09, kamal deka wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>> I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> >>> Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> with
>>>
>>>> his
>>>>>> >>> newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>>>>>> >laughter-evoking
>>>>>> >>> buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>>>>>> >>> KJD
>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>> assam mailing list
>>>>>> >>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> > >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >> assam mailing list
>>>>>> >> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >------------------------------
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Message: 5
>>>>>> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:46:33 -0500
>>>>>> >From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
>>>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>
>>>> > world <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>>>> >Message-ID:
>>>>>> > <7b43066c0903161546pa713174q41f2bc298fc85ccc at mail.gmail.com>
>>>>>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-13
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >According to historian Satyendra Nath Sarma, [*Sarma, Satyendra Nath
> >>>>> (1976)
>>>>>> >"Assamese Literature", Harrassowitz, Wiesbaden.*]
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >While the Shan invaders called themselves Tai, they came to be
>>>>>> referred
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> >as "?s?m", "?sam" and sometimes as "Acam" by the indigenous people of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >country. The modern Assamese word "?hom" by which the Tai people are
>>>>>> known
>>>>>> >is derived from "?s?m" or "?sam". The epithet applied to the Shan
>>>>>> conquerors
>>>>>> >was subsequently transferred to the country over which they ruled and
>>>>>> thus
>>>>>> >the name K?mar?pa was replaced by ?s?m, which ultimately took the
>>>>>> >Sanskritized form "Asama", meaning "unequalled, peerless or uneven"
>>>>>> >[*Banikanta
>>>>>> >Kakati: "Assamese: Its Formation and Development", p2*]
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Dilip and Dil Deka
>>>>>> ><dilipdeka at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> The debaters on this subject are looking at only two facets - the
>>>>>> Tai-Ahom
>>>>>> >> connection and the possible Sanskritization. There is a third one
> >>>>> to
>>>>>> look
>>>>>> >> at. The Bodo-Kacharis have been in Assam longer than anyone else
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> >> people are spread all over Assam.
>>>>>> >> What did they call the land? Many rivers in Assam still have their
>>>>>> Bodo
>>>>>> >> names.
>>>>>> >> What did they call the Tais who came to Assam in the 13th century?
>>>>>> >> Is there "xo" sound in Bodo language?
>>>>>> >> It is very possible that some words in Bodo were at the root of
>>>>>> "Oxom",
>>>>>> >> "Assam", "Asom" or whatever else. Please do not throw away Dr. A.
>>>>>> Guha
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> >> Baden Powell(is that the name?) yet.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> I don't know a word of Bodo language. Could someone who knows Bodo
>>>>>> comment
>>>>>> >> on the above?
>>>>>> >> I did go to the website http://www.bodoland.org/language1.htm and
>>>>>> found
>>>>>> >> some interesting words but not much that would help the debate.
>>>>>> >> Dilip Deka
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> ________________________________
>>>>>> >> From: Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> >> To: assamnet <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:21:13 AM
>>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his
>>>>>> own
>>>>>> >> research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell
>>>>>> even
>>>>>> >> without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> >> article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing
>>>>>> based
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> >> his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> >> educated intellectuals with different agendas.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> >> problem.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Rajen Barua
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
>>>>>> >> > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > >> > To: assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>> >> > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> >> > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof..Amalendu Guha
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> his
>>>>>> >> > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>>>>>> >> laughter-evoking
>>>>>> >> > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>>>>>> >> > KJD
>>>>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >> > assam mailing list
>>>>>> >> > assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
>>>> >> assam mailing list
>>>>>> >> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >> assam mailing list
>>>>>> >> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >------------------------------
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Message: 6
>>>>>> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:22:57 -0500
>>>>>> >From: Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net>
>>>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>>>> > world <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>>>> >Message-ID: <a06240801c5e48f2413b2@[192.168.0.197]>
>>>>>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed"
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Does S N Sarma refer to any proof or is it a
>>>>>> >conjecture? And at what time frame did the name
>>>>>> >Asam came to be the defining name of the kingdom?
>>>>>> >Will it be reasonable to surmise that it was much
> >>>>> >before the British came?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >The Sanskritized form is a pure and unadulterated conjecture of
>>>>>> modern
>>>>>> >times.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >At 5:46 PM -0500 3/16/09, kamal deka wrote:
>>>>>> >>According to historian Satyendra Nath Sarma, [*Sarma, Satyendra Nath
>>>>>> (1976)
>>>>>> >>"Assamese Literature", Harrassowitz, Wiesbaden.*]
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>While the Shan invaders called themselves Tai, they came to be
>>>>>> referred
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> >>as "?s?m", "?sam" and sometimes as "Acam" by the indigenous people
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >>country. The modern Assamese word "?hom" by which the Tai people are
>>>>>> known
>>>>>> >>is derived from "?s?m" or "?sam". The epithet applied to the Shan
>>>>>> >conquerors
>>>>>> >>was subsequently transferred to the country over which they ruled
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> thus
>>>>>> >>the name K?mar?pa was replaced by ?s?m, which ultimately took the
>>>>>> >>Sanskritized form "Asama", meaning "unequalled,
>>>>>> >>peerless or uneven" [*Banikanta
>>>>>> >>Kakati: "Assamese: Its Formation and Development", p2*]
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Dilip and Dil
>>>>>> >>Deka <dilipdeka at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>> The debaters on this subject are looking at only two facets - the
>>>>>> >Tai-Ahom
>>>>>> >>> connection and the possible Sanskritization. There is a third one
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> >look
>>>>>> >>> at. The Bodo-Kacharis have been in Assam longer than anyone else
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> >their
>>>>>> >>> people are spread all over Assam.
>>>>>> >>> What did they call the land? Many rivers in Assam still have
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> Bodo
>>>>>> >>> names.
>>>>>> >>> What did they call the Tais who came to Assam in the 13th
>>>>>> century?
>>>>>> >>> Is there "xo" sound in Bodo language?
>>>>>> >>> It is very possible that some words in Bodo were at the root of
>>>>>> "Oxom",
>>>>>> >>> "Assam", "Asom" or whatever else. Please do not throw away Dr. A.
>>>>>> Guha
>>>>>> >or
>>>>>> >>> Baden Powell(is that the name?) yet.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> I don't know a word of Bodo language. Could someone who knows
>>>>>> Bodo
>>>>>> >comment
>>>>>> >>> on the above?
>>>>>> >>> I did go to the website http://www.bodoland.org/language1.htmand
>>>>>> found
>>>>>> >>> some interesting words but not much that would help the debate.
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>> Dilip Deka
>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> ________________________________
>>>>>> >>> From: Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> >>> To: assamnet <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>>>> >>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:21:13 AM
>>>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on
>>>>>> his
>>>>>> own
>>>>>> >>> research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden
>>>>>> Powell
>>>>>> even
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > >>> without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam'
> >>>> in
>>>>> my
>>>>>
>>>>> >>> article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing
>>>>>> based
>>>>>> >on
>>>>>> >>> his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> >>> educated intellectuals with different agendas.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> >>> problem.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Rajen Barua
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
>>>>>> >>> > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
>>>>>> >>> > To: assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >>> > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> > I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> >>> > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha
> >>>>> with
>>>>>> >his
>>>>>> >>> > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>>>>>> >>> laughter-evoking
>>>>>> >>> > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>>>>>> >>> > KJD
>>>>>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>> > assam mailing list
>>>>>> >>> > assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >>> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>> assam mailing list
>>>>>> >>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> > >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>> assam mailing list
>>>>>> >>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>assam mailing list
>>>>>> >>assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >------------------------------
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Message: 7
>>>>>> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:54:43 -0500
>>>>>> >From: "Rajen & Ajanta Barua" <barua25 at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >To: "A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>>>> > world" <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>>>> >Message-ID: <BLU104-DS7C413BFDCE6E3BC440122AD980 at phx.gbl>
>>>>>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Dear Choudhury:
>>>>>> >Since you are new to the Assam net, please know that in this net we
>>>>>> discuss
>>>>>> >and debate all kinds of intelligent intellectual issues.
>>>>>> >Please don't take anything personally in assam net. Here we do
>>>>>> friendly
>>>>>> >intellectual hot debates all the time. Kamal, me, Ramgopal, Dilip,
>>>>>> Chandan,
>>>>>> >Wahid and many others are friends, and actually many of us live in
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> city
>>>>>> >Houston as friends. But in hot issues we do heated debates and try to
>>>>>> thrash
>>>>>> >out truths for the sake of the community. We understand that sometime
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >truths hurt.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >When Kamal wrote us as 'neophyte historians' we do not take it
>>>>>> personally.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >When I wrote, "There are many ignorant educated people in Assam."
>>>>>> >Or " There are again some educated intellectuals with different
>>>>>> agendas."
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >It is same as the statement "There are many educated corrupt people
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> >Assam".
>>>>>> >I am sure that statement would not mean that all the people of Assam
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> >corrupt by any stretch of imagination. On the other hand if I make
>>>>>> this
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >statement, many will support me.
>>>
>>>> >These do not anyway mean that we are blaming all the people of Assam.
>>>>>> Nor
>>>>>> >does it mean that people living outside Assam are superior or better.
>>>>>> Many
>>>>>> >from Assam take part here. We never write thinking the people of
>>>>>> Assam
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> >different from us.
>>>>>> >I wrote I wrote in similar vein.
> >>>>> >I am sorry if I somehow hurt yours or anybody's feeling. But frankly
>>>>>> >speaking that is the flavor and beauty of Assam net.
>>>>>> >The net is doing a great service to the Assamese community for many
>>>>>> many
>>>>>> >years now..
>>>>>> >I also want to clarify that this is not Friends of Assam net which is
>>>>>> >different. You may be confused for some reason.
>>>>>> >Regards
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Rajen Barua
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >From: Choudhary, H. N. - AMW - MUM
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:29 AM
>>>
>>>> >To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>>>> world
>>>>>> >Cc: rc2559 at columbia.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Dear All,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Having read the mails and communications on the subject "about the
>>>>>> name
>>>>>> >of Assam",
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I feel that the debate on the subject has become acrimonious and
>>>>>> >somewhat personal.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >No one can clam fame to become a historian overnight by writing an
> >>>>> >article on a historical topic. It is also not appropriate to call
>>>>>> them
>>>>>> >"neophyte historians" as they may not deserve the accolade.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >If I have to give my comments on the following remarks:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >"There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> >educated intellectuals with different agendas."
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >-- I will like to reserve my comments.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Please exercise restraint and caution on commenting poorly on the
>>>>>> whole
>>>>>> >of Assam or Assamese people.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Your geographical location outside Assam (in USA or elsewhere) does
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> >confer the right to make un-parliamentary
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >comments on the people in Assam.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >These are sensitive issues.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I am a recent addition to the group.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I have served for many years in the Army and now in an Indian
>>>>>> corporate.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Having he advantage to experienced the best traditions of our culture
>>>>>> >and a mix of British culture,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I could suggest that views and opinions need not "hurt" anyone.
>>>>>> Please
>>>>>> >show tolerance.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >If we follow that in the Friends of Assam, we will remain friends.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I request both parties to cool off.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >There is too much heat at the moment.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Regards,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Col Hemen N Choudhary
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >W Sea Face
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Mumbai
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >-----Original Message-----
>>>>>> >From: assam-bounces at assamnet.org [mailto:assam-bounces at assamnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> >Behalf Of Rajen Barua
>>>>>> >Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 6:51 PM
>>>>>> >To: assamnet
>>>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his
>>>>>> own
>>>>>> >research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell
>>>>>> even
>>>>>> >without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
>>>>>> >article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing
>>>>>> based
>>>>>> >on his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >There are
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> >problem.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Rajen Barua
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
> >>>>> >
>>>>>> >> From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >
>>>
>>>> >> To: assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> >his
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>>>>>> >laughter-evoking
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> KJD
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> assam mailing list
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >assam mailing list
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >
>>>
>>>> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >DISCLAIMER:
> >>>>> >Sample Disclaimer added in a VBScript.
>>>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>>>> >assam mailing list
>>>>>> >assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >------------------------------
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Message: 8
>>>>>> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:04:05 -0500
>>>>>> >From: "Rajen & Ajanta Barua" <barua25 at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >To: "A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>>>> > world" <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>>>> >Message-ID: <BLU104-DS25A6D9ADC864C80E6C489AD980 at phx.gbl>
>>>>>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-13"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>
>>>>> >That is exactly what I wrote in my article with more elaboration of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> word
>>>>>> >"Acam". I however don't buy the last statement of Banikanta Kakopty',
>>>>>> >"which ultimately took the Sanskritized form "Asama", meaning
>>>>>> "unequalled,
>>>>>> >peerless or uneven" [*Banikanta Kakati: "Assamese: Its Formation and
>>>>>> >Development", p2*]"
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Where this Sanskrit came from?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Bottomline, the word ASSAM does not have any vestiges of colonial
>>>>>> rule.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >The words OXOM and AHOM came from the Assamese word ACAM
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I am not writing anything new. People simply need to read history
>>>>>> books
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> >find out the truth.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >It is a myth that ASSAM word is derived from OXOM.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Rajen Barua
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >From: kamal deka
>>>>>> >Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:46 PM
>>>>>> >To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>>>> world
>>>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >According to historian Satyendra Nath Sarma, [*Sarma, Satyendra Nath
>>>>>> (1976)
>>>>>> >"Assamese Literature", Harrassowitz, Wiesbaden.*]
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >While the Shan invaders called themselves Tai, they came to be
>>>>>> referred
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> >as "?s?m", "?sam" and sometimes as "Acam" by the indigenous people of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >country. The modern Assamese word "?hom" by which the Tai people are
>>>>>> known
>>>>>> >is derived from "?s?m" or "?sam". The epithet applied to the Shan
>>>>>> conquerors
>>>>>> >was subsequently transferred to the country over which they ruled and
>>>>>> thus
>>>>>> >the name K?mar?pa was replaced by ?s?m, which ultimately took the
>>>>>> >Sanskritized form "Asama", meaning "unequalled, peerless or uneven"
>>>>>> >[*Banikanta
>>>>>> >Kakati: "Assamese: Its Formation and Development", p2*]
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Dilip and Dil Deka
>>>>>> ><dilipdeka at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> The debaters on this subject are looking at only two facets - the
>>>>>> Tai-Ahom
>>>>>> >> connection and the possible Sanskritization. There is a third one
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> look
>>>>>> >> at. The Bodo-Kacharis have been in Assam longer than anyone else
>>>>>> and
> >>>>> their
>>>>>> >> people are spread all over Assam.
>>>>>> >> What did they call the land? Many rivers in Assam still have their
>>>>>> Bodo
>>>>>> >> names.
>>>>>> >> What did they call the Tais who came to Assam in the 13th century?
>>>>>> >> Is there "xo" sound in Bodo language?
>>>>>> >> It is very possible that some words in Bodo were at the root of
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> "Oxom",
>>>
>>>> > > "Assam", "Asom" or whatever else. Please do not throw away Dr. A.
>>>>>> Guha
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> >> Baden Powell(is that the name?) yet.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> I don't know a word of Bodo language. Could someone who knows Bodo
>>>>>> comment
>>>>>> >> on the above?
>>>>>> >> I did go to the website http://www.bodoland.org/language1.htm and
>>>>>> found
>>>>>> >> some interesting words but not much that would help the debate.
>>>>>> >> Dilip Deka
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> ________________________________
>>>>>> >> From: Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> >> To: assamnet <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:21:13 AM
> >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >> What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on
>>> his
>>>
>>>> own
>>>>>> >> research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell
>>>>>> even
>>>>>> >> without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> >> article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing
>>>>>> based
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> >> his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> >> educated intellectuals with different agendas.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> >> problem.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Rajen Barua
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
>>>>>> > > > From: kjit.deka at gmail.com
>>>>>> >> > To: assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >> > Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > I am wondering what prevents Mr..Saleh from confronting people
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> >> > Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> his
>>>>>> >> > newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > >> laughter-evoking
>>>>>
>>>>> >> > buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>>>>>> >> > KJD
>>>>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >> > assam mailing list
>>>>>> >> > assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >> > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >> assam mailing list
>>>>>> >> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >> assam mailing list
>>>>>> >> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>>>> >assam mailing list
>>>>>> >assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >------------------------------
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Message: 9
>>>>>> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:37:36 -0500
>>>>>> >From: "Rajen & Ajanta Barua" <barua25 at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >To: "A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>>>> > world" <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>>>> >Message-ID: <BLU104-DS2A75BE0FC0A139348BB75AD980 at phx.gbl>
>>>>>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Bodo is a Tibeto-Burman language. So far I know no Tibeto Burman
>>>>>> language
>>>>>> >has the XO sound which is an Indo-European sound.
> >>>>> >The Bodo might have taken some Assamese words and might now pronounce
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> XO
>>>>>> >sound. This I donot know for sure. The Bodos were in Assam for about
>>>>>> 3000
>>>>>> >years.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I have a small book, written in Assamese titled "Boro Bhaxa Xikhya"
>>>>>> by
>>>>>> Mr
>>>>>> >Sanokyo Brohmo.
>>>>>> >The book does tell how to pronounce the Assamese letters, that is XO
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> SO
>>>>>> >or XO?.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Mr Baden Powel claims that the Bodo has the word "Ha-com" which mean
>>>>>> low
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> >level land. He states, " The name Assam is most probably traceable to
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >Boro 'Ha-Com' which mean low or level country. The Boro word for
>>>>>> water
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> (di)
>>>
>>>> >has remained in the names of the rivers e.g. Dihong etc". "The Indian
>>>>>> >Village Community" by Baden Powel (page 135).
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I could not find the any Boro word 'Ha-Com' in the above book.
>>>>>> However
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >book has the word Ha which mean land. There is also a word 'Com'
>>>>>> (that
>>>>>> is
> >>>>> >Som) which mean time. So we donot get anywhere. Even if we take Baden
>>>>>> >Powel's word, it again simply mean that Acam or Asam word is a local
>>>>>> >Assamese word and that it is earlier than Oxom. It also mean that
>>>>>> Acam/Asam
>>>>>> >or Assam is not an anglicised word.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Note, we will have to take the outside historians of Assam with a
>>>>>> grain
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> >salt because the same Baden Powel wrote in the same book the
>>>>>> following
>>>>>> >statement>
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >"The local dialect, Assamese, is a comparatively recent
>>> modification of
>>>
>>>> >Bengali"
>>>>>> >This how much this famous historian knows about Assam and the
>>>>>> Assamese.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >After reading Gait and many other history books on Assam, I find one
>>>>>> >Assamese historian who wrote a really good autentic history of Assam.
>>>>>> He
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> >P.C. Choudhury (The Histroy of the Civilisation of the People of
>>>>>> Assam).
>>>>>> >Anybody who wants to know about the past history of Assam should read
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >For our cultural past, one should read Dimbeswar Neog.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Rajen Barua
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >From: Dilip and Dil Deka
>>>>>> >Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:57 AM
>>>>>> >To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>>>> world
>>>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >The debaters on this subject are looking at only two facets - the
>>>>>> Tai-Ahom
>>>>>> >connection and the possible Sanskritization. There is a third one to
>>>>>> look
>>>>>> >at. The Bodo-Kacharis have been in Assam longer than anyone else and
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> >people are spread all over Assam.
>>>>>> >What did they call the land? Many rivers in Assam still have their
>>>>>> Bodo
>>>>>> >names.
>>>>>> >What did they call the Tais who came to Assam in the 13th century?
>>>>>> >Is there "xo" sound in Bodo language?
>>>>>> >It is very possible that some words in Bodo were at the root of
>>>>>> "Oxom",
>>>>>> >"Assam", "Asom" or whatever else. Please do not throw away Dr. A.
>>>>>> Guha
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> >Baden Powell(is that the name?) yet.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I don't know a word of Bodo language. Could someone who knows Bodo
>>>>>> comment
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > >on the above?
>>>>>
>>>>> >I did go to the website http://www.bodoland.org/language1.htm and
>>>>>> found
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> >interesting words but not much that would help the debate.
>>>>>> >Dilip Deka
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >________________________________
>>>>>> >From: Rajen Barua <barua25 at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> >To: assamnet <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>>>> >Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:21:13 AM
>>>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Why would Mr Wahid confront anybody?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >What Prof Amalendu Gauha wrote about 'Ha-Sam' was not based on his
>>>>>> own
>>>>>> >research work. He simply borrowed the writing from Mr Baden Powell
>>>>>> even
>>>>>> >without quoting Mr Powell. I also wrote about the word 'Ha-Sam' in my
> >>>>> >article but I quoted Mr Baden Powell. Also Prof Guha was writing
>>>>>> based
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> >his communistic outlook, not much as history of the word Assam.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >There are many ignorant educated people in Assam. There are again
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> >educated intellectuals with different agendas.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Let people read Mr. Wahid's writings and confront him if they have
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> >problem.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Rajen Barua
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:03:37 -0500
>>>>>> >> From: kjit..deka at gmail.com
>>>>>> >> To: assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >> Subject: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> I am wondering what prevents Mr.Saleh from confronting people like
>>>>>> >> Prof.Priyam Goswami of Gauhati University or Prof.Amalendu Guha
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> his
>>>>>> >> newly-found Dutch document which will certainly make them
>>>>>> laughter-evoking
> >>>>>
>>>>> >>> >> buffoons for being so ignorant about Assam's history ?
>>>
>>>> >> KJD
>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >> assam mailing list
>>>>>> >> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>>>> >assam mailing list
>>>>>> >assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>>>> >assam mailing list
>>>>>> >assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >------------------------------
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Message: 10
>>>>>> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:31:03 -0500
>>>>>> >From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
>>>>>> >Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>>
>>>>> >>> >To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>
>>>> > world <assam at assamnet.org>
>>>>>> >Message-ID:
>>>>>> > <7b43066c0903162031i3398f79chb4aff0de6b0a7870 at mail.gmail.com>
>>>>>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I do agree
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Rajen & Ajanta Barua
>>>>>> ><barua25 at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> Dear Choudhury:
>>>>>> >> Since you are new to the Assam net, please know that in this net
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> >discuss
>>>>>> >> and debate all kinds of intelligent intellectual issues.
>>>>>> >> Please don't take anything personally in assam net. Here we do
>>>>>> friendly
>>>>>> >> intellectual hot debates all the time. Kamal, me, Ramgopal, Dilip,
>>>>>> >Chandan,
>>>>>> >> Wahid and many others are friends, and actually many of us live in
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> >city
>>>>>> >> Houston as friends. But in hot issues we do heated debates and try
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> >thrash
>>>>>> > > out truths for the sake of the community. We understand that
>>>>>> sometime
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >> truths hurt.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> When Kamal wrote us as 'neophyte historians' we do not take it
>>>>>> personally.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> When I wrote, "There are many ignorant educated people in Assam."
>>>>>> >> Or " There are again some educated intellectuals with different
>>>>>> agendas."
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> It is same as the statement "There are many educated corrupt
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> >> Assam".
>>>>>> >> I am sure that statement would not mean that all the people of
>>>>>> Assam
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> >> corrupt by any stretch of imagination. On the other hand if I make
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> >> statement, many will support me.
>>>>>> >> These do not anyway mean that we are blaming all the people of
>>>>>> Assam.
>>>>>> Nor
>>>>>> >> does it mean that people living outside Assam are superior or
>>>>>> better.
>>>>>> Many
>>>>>> >> from Assam take part here. We never write thinking the people of
>>>>>> Assam
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> >> different from us.
>>>>>> >> I wrote I wrote in similar vein.
>>>>>> >> I am sorry if I somehow hurt yours or anybody's feeling. But
>>>>>> frankly
> >>>>>
>>>>>> > >> speaking that is the flavor and beauty of Assam net.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> The net is doing a great service to the Assamese community for many
>>>>>> many
>>>>>> >> years now.
>>>>>> >> I also want to clarify that this is not Friends of Assam net which
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> >> different. You may be confused for some reason.
>>>>>> >> Regards
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Rajen Barua
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> From: Choudhary, H. N. - AMW - MUM
>>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:29 AM
>>>>>> >> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the
>>>>>> world
>>>>>> > > Cc: rc2559 at columbia.edu
>>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [Assam] About the name Assam
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Dear All,
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Having read the mails and communications on the subject "about
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> name
>>>>>> >> of Assam",
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> I feel that the debate on the subject has become acrimonious and
>>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>
>> [Message clipped]
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