[Assam] ULFA no longer a force to be reckoned with, IB tells Centre - Sentinel

Ram Sarangapani assamrs at gmail.com
Thu Jun 10 08:58:23 PDT 2010 

A correction - the bilateral trade is  now at $2 billion between India &
Pak, It has a potential to grow to 10 billion. Apologize for the error.

--Ram


On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 10:52 AM, Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com> wrote:

> C'da,
>
>
> >UTOPIA?  But why Utopia? How about something less than that?  Is it
> >desirable? Is anything less than Utopia acceptable?
>
> Why,  if Utopia can be achieved?
>
>
>
> >> It was basically, Md. Ali Jinnah and others who wanted the separation by
> any means.
>
> >*** And, pray, WHY did they want that?  Was there a reason perhaps :-)?
> >Were their fears unfounded? Was there no history to base those fears on?
> >Revisionist history is alive and well!
>
> Reason? Of course, Jinnah & co. wanted their own country.
>
> And if you insist there were other reasons, faulting the 'Hindoo' majority,
>
> are you NOW saying that these problems vanished now, so we should all
> become one big happy family?
>
> So, how in the Dickens are you now suggesting these people  who hate each
> other, team up?
>
>
> >BUT,  working in a federation does not mean merging.  These nations have
> >a legitimate reason to live independently. Just as Assam does.  But they
> CAN
> >live in peace, as good neighbors.
>
> No doubt, wise words from the wise. Sure peace, heck, why not?
>
> So, do you now have a just, equitable, everyone-happy, solution for
> Kashmir?
> Doesn't have to be in detail, you know, could be like the Assam-India plan
> we have been waiting for :-)
>
> I think this global warming stuff in the Ozarks must be affecting the
> logical thought process, must send in reinforcements :-)
>
>
> >Germany, France, Poland, Italy, Turkey, England, Holland . They were
> enemies
> >in our life-times.  China vs US vs Vietnam --- they too were enemies.
>  Things do change.
> >We are in no Utopia, but look at China and the US, wrapped together in
> commerce, with
> >no escape ! Is it bad? Should it be derided?
>
> Did you know that Indo-Pak bilateral trade is now $10 Billion? India
> happens to be one of the major trade partners in Pakistan, B'desh, and Sri
> Lanka.  Indian movies, TV, grain, food, water, electronics, and even autos
> are big items in Pak. Indian movies and TV are sometimes banned, but are
> always available in Pak,
>
> India also offers Pakistan (and maybe B'desh) zero duty access to imports.
>
> So, your assumption that there is little or no commerce is not correct.
> Posted below a link from the Dawn, Pakistan newspaper. on this very issue.
>
>
> http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/business/indo-pak-trade-can-grow-upto-$10-bn-indian-envoy-jd-04
>
>
> >On a side note, the ULFA (and others) who have been born & bred in India,
>
>>
>> are demanding a separate 'Nation' for Assam. And if they want to separate,
>> why are we looking for these other countries to join India?
>>
>
> *** You are letting your guard down Ram . We can see it all :-).
>
> Well, you can't have it both ways? On the one hand, India is bad,
> overbearing, etc ... so ULFA must get it's own homeland..
> On the other, we all need to get along...... even though India is all that.
> If ULFA can't be convinced to see this BIG TENT idea, how in blazes do
> expect to get the Pakis and B'deshis inside.
> Oops! the B'deshis are already in the tent - its just that we don't know
> what they look like :-)
>
> --Ram
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >India, Bdesh, Pak. all in one federation? Wow! That would indeed mean
>> >Utopia, if ever one existed.
>>
>>
>> *** Words! How wonderful they are :-).
>>
>> UTOPIA?  But why Utopia? How about something less than that?  Is it
>> desirable? Is anything less than Utopia acceptable?
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> > It was basically, Md. Ali Jinnah and others
>>
>>>
>>> who wanted the separation by any means.
>>>
>>
>> *** And, pray, WHY did they want that?  Was there a reason perhaps :-)?
>> Were their fears unfounded? Was there no history to base those fears on?
>> Revisionist history is alive and well!
>>
>>
>> BUT,  working in a federation does not mean merging.  These nations have
>> a legitimate reason to live independently. Just as Assam does.  But they
>> CAN
>> live in peace, as good neighbors.
>>
>> Germany, France, Poland, Italy, Turkey, England, Holland . They were
>> enemies
>> in our life-times.  China vs US vs Vietnam --- they too were enemies.
>>  Things do change.
>> We are in no Utopia, but look at China and the US, wrapped together in
>> commerce, with
>> no escape ! Is it bad? Should it be derided? OK, perhaps it should be
>> derided. The
>> wing-nuts do in the US.  Why should there be no desi wing-nuts :-)?
>>
>>
>>
>> >Whether or not illegal B'deshis can or cannot be identified, these are
>> still
>>
>>> separate countries, and any joint Fed, kumbayas, fuzzy-feelin, still will
>>> not justify such a move.
>>>
>>
>> *** Brilliant :-)!
>>
>>
>> >On a side note, the ULFA (and others) who have been born & bred in India,
>>
>>>
>>> are demanding a separate 'Nation' for Assam. And if they want to
>>> separate,
>>> why are we looking for these other countries to join India?
>>>
>>
>> *** You are letting your guard down Ram . We can see it all :-).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 10, 2010, at 8:11 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>>
>>  Well said JS.
>>>
>>> India, Bdesh, Pak. all in one federation? Wow! That would indeed mean
>>> Utopia, if ever one existed.
>>>
>>> Just to add, before Pakistan & India were separated, most (now on the
>>> Indian
>>> side) did NOT want a separation. It was basically, Md. Ali Jinnah and
>>> others
>>> who wanted the separation by any means.
>>>
>>> Today, even if a majority of Indians wanted to be one big happy family,
>>> there is so much hatred (for India, US etc) in Pakistan, that there' a
>>> snowball's chance in hell for Pakis ever wanting to team up with India
>>> (well, only, maybe, as conquerors).
>>>
>>> Whether or not illegal B'deshis can or cannot be identified, these are
>>> still
>>> separate countries, and any joint Fed, kumbayas, fuzzy-feelin, still will
>>> not justify such a move.
>>>
>>> On a side note, the ULFA (and others) who have been born & bred in India,
>>> are demanding a separate 'Nation' for Assam. And if they want to
>>> separate,
>>> why are we looking for these other countries to join India?
>>>
>>> -- Ram da
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 6:46 AM, Jyotirmoy Sharma <
>>> jyotirmoy.sharma at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  God bless India and Indians if India, Pak and Bangladesh form a
>>>> federation. I thought the countries split because we could no longer
>>>> live together. Let's face the reality. We are better off as we are.
>>>> India is a developing country and is marching ahead inspite of all
>>>> it's problems. India is one of the most unique country in the world.
>>>> When western countries preach about values like democracy, equality, I
>>>> think .. would they ever allow someone from a religious minority group
>>>> to occupy the most powerful post in the country? It hasn't yet taken
>>>> place and I doubt it will. Netters can correct me. Even Barak Obama
>>>> had to hide his middle name during the campaign, although he has
>>>> converted to Chritianity.
>>>>
>>>> While Bangladesh, under the current regime ( and even Sri Lanka )
>>>> seems to be taking a strong resolve to root out terrorism, Pakistan is
>>>> a failed state. Under no circumstance would they( meaning Pak govt )
>>>> give up the idea of Kashmir. Infact no one can form a govt in Pak
>>>> without having Kashmir in its agenda( It's a truth which  most
>>>> Pakistanis will acknowledge. It's a different matter that most
>>>> educated  everyday Pakistani citizens wouldn't be too worried about
>>>> what happening in Indian Kashmir ). That is precisely the problem with
>>>> Pakistan. Rather than worrying about improving their own country ,
>>>> their policies are India centric.
>>>> Now I read of ISI's direct involvement in 26/11( David Headley's
>>>> confession .. I am sure some netters will even negate the validity of
>>>> such confession )
>>>> How many more Kasabs, Afzal Gurus does India want? We keep extending a
>>>> friendly hand and everytime there is a kick in our butt. No wonder,
>>>> India is taken for a ride by all.
>>>> JS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Dilip and Dil Deka
>>>> <dilipdeka at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Netters,
>>>>> Remember India, Bangladesh and Pakistan used to be one country  before
>>>>>
>>>> the artificial borders were drawn. These borders did not draw lines
>>>> around
>>>> and change people's language, literature and culture overnight. So how
>>>> can
>>>> you distinguish someone from Bangladesh in the middle of similar people
>>>> in
>>>> India? Thus they are not detectable or deportable. Get used to it, I
>>>> have
>>>> been saying it for years - migration across artificial borders will keep
>>>> happening, and you and I cannot do anything about it. Not even mighty
>>>> :-)
>>>> GOI cn solve this problem.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Only solution is a new federation of the three countries so that people
>>>>>
>>>> can freely move across the borders in the pursuit of livelihood and
>>>> business, in stead of pursuing religious or political ideology. I know
>>>> it sounds like  wishful thinking but it is possible if the social
>>>> leaders
>>>> put their minds to it.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What's your take on it?
>>>>> Dilip
>>>>> Houston
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world
>>>>> <
>>>>>
>>>> assam at assamnet.org>
>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Wed, June 9, 2010 9:17:15 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Assam] ULFA no longer a force to be reckoned with, IB
>>>>> tells
>>>>>
>>>> Centre - Sentinel
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Those are very clever comments no doubt!
>>>>>
>>>>> What is not-so-clever, however, is the fact that the 'democratically
>>>>>
>>>> elected'
>>>>
>>>>> desi-govt/s. have neither been able to find or deport them. So what do
>>>>>
>>>> our
>>>>
>>>>> desi-demokrasy enthusiasts say about that? Is there a problem here with
>>>>> desi-sorkar, one that the clever netters so glibly put their trust on,
>>>>> or
>>>>>
>>>> is it a
>>>>
>>>>> problem with Uttam or is it a problem with the glib ones here ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 9:03 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  KJD,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am a little intrigued that there is quite possibly this notion out
>>>>>>
>>>>> there
>>>>
>>>>> that there are NO illegal B'deshis in Assam,
>>>>>> and that all this is a political ploy of some kind. Though, I haven't
>>>>>>
>>>>> met
>>>>
>>>>> any illegal (or Undocumented - in PC speak) B'deshis, we keep reading
>>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> hearing about vast numbers of B'deshis coming into Assam/NE, and even
>>>>>> as
>>>>>>
>>>>> far
>>>>
>>>>> as Delhi, W. Bengal etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The previous BD PM categorically stated there are none, and one time
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Assam Govt. was able to identify 6 or 7 B'deshis for deportation.
>>>>>> Heck, and if sections of people also believe that there are none, I
>>>>>>
>>>>> guess
>>>>
>>>>> there are no illegal B'deshis in Assam.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The other thing about North Indians grabbing land in Assam is
>>>>>> something
>>>>>>
>>>>> very
>>>>
>>>>> new. I have never heard about this (not that it matters) and something
>>>>>>
>>>>> even
>>>>
>>>>> close to it. If these are 'criminal' acts, then it quite possibly
>>>>>>
>>>>> pervasive
>>>>
>>>>> in other parts of India, and just making inroads into Assam.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --Ram
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 6:18 PM, kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Hmmm! I haven't met any either. Next time we visit Assam, I will
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> have to
>>>>
>>>>>  make it point to meet one :-).<<<
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RS,
>>>>>>> I am sure,there must be plenty of merry andrews in Assam as well as
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the Net.However,in terms of buffoonery,he or she will not be able to
>>>>>>> match the one,who expects an illegal Bangladeshis to put on a ID tag
>>>>>>> hanging around his neck with the purpose of divulging his nationality
>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>> KJD
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 12:23 AM, Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Uttam,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  My problem is I cannot see anything in isolation. For me the events
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>
>>>>>  all
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> connected; we can see the past; but cannot forecast the future: that
>>>>>>>> sort
>>>>>>>> of: -).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I agree there is value in viewing issues in this manner. However,
>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>> issues (like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict or similar ones) there
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is
>>>>
>>>>>  absolutely no end. The time line can be shifted at will, and how one
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wishes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is why, it is often a good idea to compartmentalize issues. One
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> has
>>>>
>>>>>  to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> start at some base line.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  1. I have not yet personally met a confirmed illegal Bangladeshi
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> migrant ascertained to be one till date. Have you?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hmmm! I haven't met any either. Next time we visit Assam, I will
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>>  make it point to meet one :-).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But, there is the other possibility, since you have met one, and I
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> haven't
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> either, then we can both be sure there aren't any illegal B'deshis
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Assam.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  2. The recent killings near Dr. Dhaniram Baruah's Heart City have
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> been
>>>>
>>>>>  attributed to land grabbing. Some business people from the >cowbelt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> want
>>>>
>>>>>  a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> huge contiguous plot of land on south bank near Guwahati to build up
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> township.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I remember this. We were at Guwahati around that time. The Dr. was
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> B'lore, and some miscreants destroyed a big portion of his hospital.
>>>>>>>> So, you claim some Hindiwalls or the like were behind this. And this
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> proves
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> what, Uttam? That these Hindiwallas are out to get us?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  There is no point in merely condemning the armed activity by a
>>>>>>>>> small
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> section of the Assamese. Being irrational, these activities would
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> surely
>>>>
>>>>>  give you the opportunity to sneer at them. But that will rather stoke
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>>  fire than to douse it: do not you suggest we adhere to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 'non->violence'?
>>>>>
>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> got to feel the fragile Assamese psyche in relation to its
>>>>>>>> foundation
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> in
>>>>
>>>>>  hinterland ( some people say colony within a >colony!) economics.( you
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> call
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> it 'victim mentality' which is not very empathic...)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whether I empathize or not hardly matters, the 'Victim mentality'
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> exists
>>>>
>>>>>  &
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> quite well for that matter. In fact, this is a favorite tool used by
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> armed
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> rebellions all over the world, and maybe even countries.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --Ram da
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 9:42 PM, uttam borthakur
>>>>>>>> <uttamborthakur at yahoo.co.in>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Dear Ram Da,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My problem is I cannot see anything in isolation. For me the events
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>
>>>>>  all
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> connected; we can see the past; but cannot forecast the future: that
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sort
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of: -).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Since I have to run this time, I just point out a few things for
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>>  just ponder: -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. I have not yet personally met a confirmed illegal Bangladeshi
>>>>>>>>> migrant ascertained to be one till date. Have you?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2. The recent killings near Dr. Dhaniram Baruah's Heart City have
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> been
>>>>
>>>>>  attributed to land grabbing. Some business people from the cowbelt
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> want
>>>>
>>>>>  a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> huge contiguous plot of land on south bank near Guwahati to build up
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>
>>>>>  township. In Chandrapur area, the Oxomiya henchmen of the cowbelt
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> business
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> houses are intimidating, killing, demolishing fences, etc. etc. in
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> order
>>>>
>>>>>  to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> devour the land. Local resistance of villagers, who are getting
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> organised in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the fear of losing homestead, are somewhat delaying the process.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Political
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> bigwigs , Ministersrunning Assam are in cahoots. Policemen are
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> involved.
>>>>
>>>>>  All
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> these are daily news. Recently, I went on a survey. I was aghast to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that annual periodic pattas are given to the settlers; they are now
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> given
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the marching orders after giving them some money and a back dated
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> agreement;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> on the basis of such agreement petty revenue for last fiver years
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> paid
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> in the name of these political bigwigs, ministers, northerners,
>>>>>>>>> journalists etc. who have occupied huge chunks of beautiful forest,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> hill
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> lands with tremendous sight of the mighty Brahmaputra. If you pay 20
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> or so of the revenue you get a Myadi Patta. For the poor settlers it
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>
>>>>>  a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> huge amount; for the carpetbaggers it is pittance. ( My take on this
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>
>>>>>  :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> all colonial masters need local henchmen / dalals. The rich from the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> cowbelt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> will always need their paid goons to carry out their dirty works.
>>>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 'root
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> cause' is the money and greed of the masters: the principal aspect
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> contradiction:-))
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 3. For various historical reasons, the processs of Assamese Nation
>>>>>>>>> formation (in the modern sense; I do not begin with Narakasura:-))
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> has
>>>>
>>>>>  not
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> been very sturdy and this inherent weakness has led to knee-jerk
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> reactions
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> weakening the process rather than bolstering it. There is no point
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> merely condemning the armed activity by a small section of the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Assamese.
>>>>
>>>>>  Being irrational, these activities would surely give you the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> opportunity
>>>>
>>>>>  to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sneer at them. But that will rather stoke the fire than to douse it:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> do
>>>>
>>>>>  not
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> you suggest we adhere to 'non-violence'? You got to feel the
>>>>>>>>> fragile Assamese psyche in relation to its foundation in hinterland
>>>>>>>>> (
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> people say colony within a colony!) economics.( you call it 'victim
>>>>>>>>> mentality' which is not very empathic...)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's about it for now.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Uttam Kumar Borthakur
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> assam mailing list
>>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> assam mailing list
>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> assam mailing list
>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>> assam mailing list
>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> assam mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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