[Assam] ULFA no longer a force to be reckoned with, IB tells Centre - Sentinel

Ram Sarangapani assamrs at gmail.com
Thu Jun 10 08:52:06 PDT 2010 

C'da,

>UTOPIA?  But why Utopia? How about something less than that?  Is it
>desirable? Is anything less than Utopia acceptable?

Why,  if Utopia can be achieved?


>> It was basically, Md. Ali Jinnah and others who wanted the separation by
any means.

>*** And, pray, WHY did they want that?  Was there a reason perhaps :-)?
>Were their fears unfounded? Was there no history to base those fears on?
>Revisionist history is alive and well!

Reason? Of course, Jinnah & co. wanted their own country.

And if you insist there were other reasons, faulting the 'Hindoo' majority,
are you NOW saying that these problems vanished now, so we should all become
one big happy family?

So, how in the Dickens are you now suggesting these people  who hate each
other, team up?

>BUT,  working in a federation does not mean merging.  These nations have
>a legitimate reason to live independently. Just as Assam does.  But they
CAN
>live in peace, as good neighbors.

No doubt, wise words from the wise. Sure peace, heck, why not?

So, do you now have a just, equitable, everyone-happy, solution for Kashmir?

Doesn't have to be in detail, you know, could be like the Assam-India plan
we have been waiting for :-)

I think this global warming stuff in the Ozarks must be affecting the
logical thought process, must send in reinforcements :-)

>Germany, France, Poland, Italy, Turkey, England, Holland . They were
enemies
>in our life-times.  China vs US vs Vietnam --- they too were enemies.
 Things do change.
>We are in no Utopia, but look at China and the US, wrapped together in
commerce, with
>no escape ! Is it bad? Should it be derided?

Did you know that Indo-Pak bilateral trade is now $10 Billion? India happens
to be one of the major trade partners in Pakistan, B'desh, and Sri Lanka.
Indian movies, TV, grain, food, water, electronics, and even autos are big
items in Pak. Indian movies and TV are sometimes banned, but are always
available in Pak,

India also offers Pakistan (and maybe B'desh) zero duty access to imports.

So, your assumption that there is little or no commerce is not correct.
Posted below a link from the Dawn, Pakistan newspaper. on this very issue.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/business/indo-pak-trade-can-grow-upto-$10-bn-indian-envoy-jd-04

>On a side note, the ULFA (and others) who have been born & bred in India,

>
> are demanding a separate 'Nation' for Assam. And if they want to separate,
> why are we looking for these other countries to join India?
>

*** You are letting your guard down Ram . We can see it all :-).

Well, you can't have it both ways? On the one hand, India is bad,
overbearing, etc ... so ULFA must get it's own homeland..
On the other, we all need to get along...... even though India is all that.
If ULFA can't be convinced to see this BIG TENT idea, how in blazes do
expect to get the Pakis and B'deshis inside.
Oops! the B'deshis are already in the tent - its just that we don't know
what they look like :-)

--Ram










On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at gmail.com> wrote:

> >India, Bdesh, Pak. all in one federation? Wow! That would indeed mean
> >Utopia, if ever one existed.
>
>
> *** Words! How wonderful they are :-).
>
> UTOPIA?  But why Utopia? How about something less than that?  Is it
> desirable? Is anything less than Utopia acceptable?



>
>
>
> > It was basically, Md. Ali Jinnah and others
>
>>
>> who wanted the separation by any means.
>>
>
> *** And, pray, WHY did they want that?  Was there a reason perhaps :-)?
> Were their fears unfounded? Was there no history to base those fears on?
> Revisionist history is alive and well!
>
>
> BUT,  working in a federation does not mean merging.  These nations have
> a legitimate reason to live independently. Just as Assam does.  But they
> CAN
> live in peace, as good neighbors.
>
> Germany, France, Poland, Italy, Turkey, England, Holland . They were
> enemies
> in our life-times.  China vs US vs Vietnam --- they too were enemies.
>  Things do change.
> We are in no Utopia, but look at China and the US, wrapped together in
> commerce, with
> no escape ! Is it bad? Should it be derided? OK, perhaps it should be
> derided. The
> wing-nuts do in the US.  Why should there be no desi wing-nuts :-)?
>
>
>
> >Whether or not illegal B'deshis can or cannot be identified, these are
> still
>
>> separate countries, and any joint Fed, kumbayas, fuzzy-feelin, still will
>> not justify such a move.
>>
>
> *** Brilliant :-)!
>
>
> >On a side note, the ULFA (and others) who have been born & bred in India,
>
>>
>> are demanding a separate 'Nation' for Assam. And if they want to separate,
>> why are we looking for these other countries to join India?
>>
>
> *** You are letting your guard down Ram . We can see it all :-).
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 10, 2010, at 8:11 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>
>  Well said JS.
>>
>> India, Bdesh, Pak. all in one federation? Wow! That would indeed mean
>> Utopia, if ever one existed.
>>
>> Just to add, before Pakistan & India were separated, most (now on the
>> Indian
>> side) did NOT want a separation. It was basically, Md. Ali Jinnah and
>> others
>> who wanted the separation by any means.
>>
>> Today, even if a majority of Indians wanted to be one big happy family,
>> there is so much hatred (for India, US etc) in Pakistan, that there' a
>> snowball's chance in hell for Pakis ever wanting to team up with India
>> (well, only, maybe, as conquerors).
>>
>> Whether or not illegal B'deshis can or cannot be identified, these are
>> still
>> separate countries, and any joint Fed, kumbayas, fuzzy-feelin, still will
>> not justify such a move.
>>
>> On a side note, the ULFA (and others) who have been born & bred in India,
>> are demanding a separate 'Nation' for Assam. And if they want to separate,
>> why are we looking for these other countries to join India?
>>
>> -- Ram da
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 6:46 AM, Jyotirmoy Sharma <
>> jyotirmoy.sharma at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  God bless India and Indians if India, Pak and Bangladesh form a
>>> federation. I thought the countries split because we could no longer
>>> live together. Let's face the reality. We are better off as we are.
>>> India is a developing country and is marching ahead inspite of all
>>> it's problems. India is one of the most unique country in the world.
>>> When western countries preach about values like democracy, equality, I
>>> think .. would they ever allow someone from a religious minority group
>>> to occupy the most powerful post in the country? It hasn't yet taken
>>> place and I doubt it will. Netters can correct me. Even Barak Obama
>>> had to hide his middle name during the campaign, although he has
>>> converted to Chritianity.
>>>
>>> While Bangladesh, under the current regime ( and even Sri Lanka )
>>> seems to be taking a strong resolve to root out terrorism, Pakistan is
>>> a failed state. Under no circumstance would they( meaning Pak govt )
>>> give up the idea of Kashmir. Infact no one can form a govt in Pak
>>> without having Kashmir in its agenda( It's a truth which  most
>>> Pakistanis will acknowledge. It's a different matter that most
>>> educated  everyday Pakistani citizens wouldn't be too worried about
>>> what happening in Indian Kashmir ). That is precisely the problem with
>>> Pakistan. Rather than worrying about improving their own country ,
>>> their policies are India centric.
>>> Now I read of ISI's direct involvement in 26/11( David Headley's
>>> confession .. I am sure some netters will even negate the validity of
>>> such confession )
>>> How many more Kasabs, Afzal Gurus does India want? We keep extending a
>>> friendly hand and everytime there is a kick in our butt. No wonder,
>>> India is taken for a ride by all.
>>> JS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Dilip and Dil Deka
>>> <dilipdeka at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Netters,
>>>> Remember India, Bangladesh and Pakistan used to be one country  before
>>>>
>>> the artificial borders were drawn. These borders did not draw lines
>>> around
>>> and change people's language, literature and culture overnight. So how
>>> can
>>> you distinguish someone from Bangladesh in the middle of similar people
>>> in
>>> India? Thus they are not detectable or deportable. Get used to it, I have
>>> been saying it for years - migration across artificial borders will keep
>>> happening, and you and I cannot do anything about it. Not even mighty :-)
>>> GOI cn solve this problem.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Only solution is a new federation of the three countries so that people
>>>>
>>> can freely move across the borders in the pursuit of livelihood and
>>> business, in stead of pursuing religious or political ideology. I know
>>> it sounds like  wishful thinking but it is possible if the social leaders
>>> put their minds to it.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> What's your take on it?
>>>> Dilip
>>>> Houston
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at gmail.com>
>>>> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world
>>>> <
>>>>
>>> assam at assamnet.org>
>>>
>>>> Sent: Wed, June 9, 2010 9:17:15 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Assam] ULFA no longer a force to be reckoned with, IB
>>>> tells
>>>>
>>> Centre - Sentinel
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Those are very clever comments no doubt!
>>>>
>>>> What is not-so-clever, however, is the fact that the 'democratically
>>>>
>>> elected'
>>>
>>>> desi-govt/s. have neither been able to find or deport them. So what do
>>>>
>>> our
>>>
>>>> desi-demokrasy enthusiasts say about that? Is there a problem here with
>>>> desi-sorkar, one that the clever netters so glibly put their trust on,
>>>> or
>>>>
>>> is it a
>>>
>>>> problem with Uttam or is it a problem with the glib ones here ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 9:03 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  KJD,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am a little intrigued that there is quite possibly this notion out
>>>>>
>>>> there
>>>
>>>> that there are NO illegal B'deshis in Assam,
>>>>> and that all this is a political ploy of some kind. Though, I haven't
>>>>>
>>>> met
>>>
>>>> any illegal (or Undocumented - in PC speak) B'deshis, we keep reading
>>>>>
>>>> and
>>>
>>>> hearing about vast numbers of B'deshis coming into Assam/NE, and even as
>>>>>
>>>> far
>>>
>>>> as Delhi, W. Bengal etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> The previous BD PM categorically stated there are none, and one time
>>>>> the
>>>>> Assam Govt. was able to identify 6 or 7 B'deshis for deportation.
>>>>> Heck, and if sections of people also believe that there are none, I
>>>>>
>>>> guess
>>>
>>>> there are no illegal B'deshis in Assam.
>>>>>
>>>>> The other thing about North Indians grabbing land in Assam is something
>>>>>
>>>> very
>>>
>>>> new. I have never heard about this (not that it matters) and something
>>>>>
>>>> even
>>>
>>>> close to it. If these are 'criminal' acts, then it quite possibly
>>>>>
>>>> pervasive
>>>
>>>> in other parts of India, and just making inroads into Assam.
>>>>>
>>>>> --Ram
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 6:18 PM, kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hmmm! I haven't met any either. Next time we visit Assam, I will
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> have to
>>>
>>>> make it point to meet one :-).<<<
>>>>>>
>>>>>> RS,
>>>>>> I am sure,there must be plenty of merry andrews in Assam as well as in
>>>>>> the Net.However,in terms of buffoonery,he or she will not be able to
>>>>>> match the one,who expects an illegal Bangladeshis to put on a ID tag
>>>>>> hanging around his neck with the purpose of divulging his nationality
>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>> KJD
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 12:23 AM, Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Uttam,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  My problem is I cannot see anything in isolation. For me the events
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> are
>>>
>>>> all
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> connected; we can see the past; but cannot forecast the future: that
>>>>>>> sort
>>>>>>> of: -).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree there is value in viewing issues in this manner. However,
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> issues (like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict or similar ones) there
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> is
>>>
>>>> absolutely no end. The time line can be shifted at will, and how one
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> wishes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is why, it is often a good idea to compartmentalize issues. One
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> has
>>>
>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> start at some base line.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  1. I have not yet personally met a confirmed illegal Bangladeshi
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> migrant ascertained to be one till date. Have you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hmmm! I haven't met any either. Next time we visit Assam, I will have
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> to
>>>
>>>> make it point to meet one :-).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But, there is the other possibility, since you have met one, and I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> haven't
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> either, then we can both be sure there aren't any illegal B'deshis in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Assam.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  2. The recent killings near Dr. Dhaniram Baruah's Heart City have
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> been
>>>
>>>> attributed to land grabbing. Some business people from the >cowbelt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> want
>>>
>>>> a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> huge contiguous plot of land on south bank near Guwahati to build up
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> township.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I remember this. We were at Guwahati around that time. The Dr. was in
>>>>>>> B'lore, and some miscreants destroyed a big portion of his hospital.
>>>>>>> So, you claim some Hindiwalls or the like were behind this. And this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> proves
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> what, Uttam? That these Hindiwallas are out to get us?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  There is no point in merely condemning the armed activity by a small
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> section of the Assamese. Being irrational, these activities would
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> surely
>>>
>>>> give you the opportunity to sneer at them. But that will rather stoke
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>
>>>> fire than to douse it: do not you suggest we adhere to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> 'non->violence'?
>>>>
>>>>> You
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> got to feel the fragile Assamese psyche in relation to its foundation
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> in
>>>
>>>> hinterland ( some people say colony within a >colony!) economics.( you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> call
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it 'victim mentality' which is not very empathic...)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whether I empathize or not hardly matters, the 'Victim mentality'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> exists
>>>
>>>> &
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> quite well for that matter. In fact, this is a favorite tool used by
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> armed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> rebellions all over the world, and maybe even countries.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --Ram da
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 9:42 PM, uttam borthakur
>>>>>>> <uttamborthakur at yahoo.co.in>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Dear Ram Da,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My problem is I cannot see anything in isolation. For me the events
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> are
>>>
>>>> all
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> connected; we can see the past; but cannot forecast the future: that
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> sort
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of: -).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Since I have to run this time, I just point out a few things for you
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to
>>>
>>>> just ponder: -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. I have not yet personally met a confirmed illegal Bangladeshi
>>>>>>>> migrant ascertained to be one till date. Have you?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. The recent killings near Dr. Dhaniram Baruah's Heart City have
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> been
>>>
>>>> attributed to land grabbing. Some business people from the cowbelt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> want
>>>
>>>> a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> huge contiguous plot of land on south bank near Guwahati to build up
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a
>>>
>>>> township. In Chandrapur area, the Oxomiya henchmen of the cowbelt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> business
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> houses are intimidating, killing, demolishing fences, etc. etc. in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> order
>>>
>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> devour the land. Local resistance of villagers, who are getting
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> organised in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the fear of losing homestead, are somewhat delaying the process.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Political
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> bigwigs , Ministersrunning Assam are in cahoots. Policemen are
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> involved.
>>>
>>>> All
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> these are daily news. Recently, I went on a survey. I was aghast to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> that annual periodic pattas are given to the settlers; they are now
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> given
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the marching orders after giving them some money and a back dated
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> agreement;
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> on the basis of such agreement petty revenue for last fiver years are
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> paid
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> in the name of these political bigwigs, ministers, northerners,
>>>>>>>> journalists etc. who have occupied huge chunks of beautiful forest,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hill
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> lands with tremendous sight of the mighty Brahmaputra. If you pay 20
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> or so of the revenue you get a Myadi Patta. For the poor settlers it
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is
>>>
>>>> a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> huge amount; for the carpetbaggers it is pittance. ( My take on this
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is
>>>
>>>> :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> all colonial masters need local henchmen / dalals. The rich from the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cowbelt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> will always need their paid goons to carry out their dirty works. But
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 'root
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cause' is the money and greed of the masters: the principal aspect of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> contradiction:-))
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3. For various historical reasons, the processs of Assamese Nation
>>>>>>>> formation (in the modern sense; I do not begin with Narakasura:-))
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> has
>>>
>>>> not
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> been very sturdy and this inherent weakness has led to knee-jerk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> reactions
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> weakening the process rather than bolstering it. There is no point in
>>>>>>>> merely condemning the armed activity by a small section of the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Assamese.
>>>
>>>> Being irrational, these activities would surely give you the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> opportunity
>>>
>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> sneer at them. But that will rather stoke the fire than to douse it:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> do
>>>
>>>> not
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you suggest we adhere to 'non-violence'? You got to feel the
>>>>>>>> fragile Assamese psyche in relation to its foundation in hinterland
>>>>>>>> (
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> people say colony within a colony!) economics.( you call it 'victim
>>>>>>>> mentality' which is not very empathic...)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's about it for now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Uttam Kumar Borthakur
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> assam mailing list
>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> assam mailing list
>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> assam mailing list
>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>> assam mailing list
>>>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> assam mailing list
>>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> assam mailing list
>>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> assam mailing list
>>> assam at assamnet.org
>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>> assam mailing list
>> assam at assamnet.org
>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> assam mailing list
> assam at assamnet.org
> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>

More information about the Assam mailing list