[Assam] poem and news : The true story about encounters with Maoist in West Bengal

Fri Jun 25 20:45:39 PDT 2010

Hehee!

Ain't this all a hoot?

We are talking about Communism in India. The Naxal movement (as started in
Naxalbari) did start with land ownerships, landlords, and yes, often the
ownerships of small farmers and laborers usurped by money lenders, the state
govt.s,and yes big corporations.

(They all start off with the right notes)

Now, let's look at the real picture.

The Communism as preached by Marx, Engels, Mao etc are only taken at face
value by 'Indian Communists'. Yes, they all preach that language, but in
practice are no better or worse than any other other corrupt politician.

Even the old Soviet Union & China of today follow nothing close to a
democracy. If people believe that the Chinese system is similar to or akin
to any other democracy, then I am really, really at a loss of words :-)

In India, let us take West Bengal: Jyoti Basu (JB)was the CM for so many
decades. Have the land ownership problems become better? All JB did was to
amass huge wealth (Brittaina Biscuits comes to mind) - so much for thinking
about  the common folks. Then along comes Mamata Banerji (Tirnamool) -
fighting for the common folks' land rights, and in the process managed to
run off Big Tata and jobs to Gujarat.

The BIG difference between Indian communists/Naxals and the other parties
(generally) is that these Naxals start off with a bang (literally), killing
people along the way to make a point. Then they get elected, and start
preaching democracy and its values, and become everyday, run-o the-mill,
politician.

In a way, you are correct, C'da. Communism and Democracy are very close -
this "power sharing"  & 'representing the people' bidness. The only problem
is, as I stated before those who use violence as a means to power, are not
very likely to give it that easily.

Right now, in India only a few states can boast Communism, and so they abide
by the rules of the country. But if all of India were to ever go that far
left, the same people who are rooting for them now, will be the first to
whine about losing freedom of speech, movement, & thought.

>Therefore the two are NOT mutually EXCLUSIVE. Communism can co-exist WITH
democracy

Yes, only in India, which can accommodate extremes. Try that in China,
Vietnam or Cuba .....and you will be in for a Tiannaman Square shock. Even
Google can't operate in China.

>Now if we look at ONE of the ROOT CAUSES of the Naxalite movements of
Central India, it IS about PROPERTY RIGHTS,

And have these been resolved in Kerala and West Bengal - these states have
been on the far left for a long, long time? What gives?

--Ram

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at gmail.com> wrote:

> Excellent point.
>
> Bot  Ram and Kamal have mouthed off about democracy and communism, without
> having a clue about what they are:
>
>        :Democracy a political system in which the supreme power lies in a
> body of citizens who can elect people to represent them
>        :Communism is a social structure in which, theoretically, classes
> are abolished and property is commonly controlled, as well
>                as a political philosophy and social movement that advocates
> and aims to create such a society.
>
> The above are some of the MANY definitions of the two. There are other
> definitions, but for all practical purposes, they are in the same track.
>
> Therefore the two are NOT mutually EXCLUSIVE. Communism can co-exist WITH
> democracy. A communist system of governance CAN
> ELECT their representatives in government democratically. The fundamental
> difference between a communisitic system and a capitalistic one lies in
> PROPERTY RIGHTS.
>
> Now if we look at ONE of the ROOT CAUSES of the Naxalite movements of
> Central India, it IS about PROPERTY RIGHTS, except it it is in the complete
> OPPOSITE of what Ram and Kamal have been wailing about. The indigenous
> people of these regions are fighting to preserve THEIR property rights
> over their ancestral land and mineral rights, that the Indian government
> has USURPED and then given them away to CORPORATIONS to the detriment of the
> people who have lived on from time immemorial.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 25, 2010, at 9:14 PM, Dilip and Dil Deka wrote:
>
>  Kamal,
>> Yes, I believe you are way off the mark.
>> "Aren't communism and democracy the opposite sides of the same coin? It
>> means that both of them are diametrically opposite. Or,am I way way
>> off the mark?"   ------ When you say same coin- what is the coin? Please
>> define the coin. Dictatorship and Democracy are diametrically opposite but
>> not Communism and Democracy.  Is Communism the same as Dictatorship - I
>> don't think so. It happens that way in many cases but it was not designed to
>> be that way.
>> The idea of communism was to share as is Democracy's. It is the
>> interpretation and execution of the principles that created the
>> transformations.
>> So, it depends on whether you are a purist or  not, to support one form of
>> ideology or the other.
>>
>> Remember I am a fundamentalist when it comes to political thoughts.
>>
>> Dilipda
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: kamal deka <kjit.deka at gmail.com>
>> To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world <
>> assam at assamnet.org>
>> Sent: Fri, June 25, 2010 7:01:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Assam] poem and news : The true story about encounters with
>> Maoist in West Bengal
>>
>>  But, I was wrong, actually the Communists would be worse than Indira. IG
>>>>>
>>>> gave up her PM seat after she lost the election. There was at least a
>> hint<<<
>>
>> RS,
>> Well done.
>>
>> You know, Indira Gandhi was the darling of the nation when she whacked
>> Yahya Khan and dismembered Pakistan in 1971. There was no doubt that
>> she had nerves of steel. But it all came to nought when she imposed
>> the dictatorial Emergency four years later, in flagrant defiance of
>> the public mood.  Durga became a demon overnight and the electorate
>> turned its back on her. The Congress was booted out and she herself
>> was defeated. India said No to Mrs Gandhi and her politics of the
>> Emergency.
>>
>> Aren't communism and democracy the opposite sides of the same coin? It
>> means that both of them are diametrically opposite. Or,am I way way
>> off the mark?
>> KJD
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Ram Sarangapani <assamrs at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Uttam,
>>>
>>>  Could anyone use/ incite Rameswars if they were otherwise comfortable?
>>>> Could you hatch chicken from stones?
>>>>
>>>
>>> The argument could have been valid, IF Rameshwar's life was improved. Not
>>> if
>>> if the actions of these 'saviours' (Naxals or for that matter ULFA) makes
>>> the situation worse, and in many cases causing death/injury to the very
>>> people they purport to be saving. With friends like these Naxals or ULFA
>>> (for the Rameshwars of the world), who needs enemies?
>>>
>>>  Second, why do you have to think that Naxals and Maoists would be like
>>>>
>>> Indira, the dictator?
>>>
>>> Right!. IG was elected, and then became a dictator (at least during the
>>> emergency), and these groups, use violence as a means to achieving their
>>> Communist agenda.
>>>
>>> But, I was wrong, actually the Communists would be worse than Indira. IG
>>> gave up her PM seat after she lost the election. There was at least a
>>> hint
>>> of democracy in her. She could have just stated she wasn't giving up the
>>> throne, and most people who matter in India would have been singing
>>> praises
>>> and writing poems.
>>>
>>> And you think, once the Naxals get a hold of power, they are going to
>>> give
>>> up that easily. They get their power thru violence, and what makes you
>>> think
>>> they would NOT use violence again to hold on to it? This is the same
>>> argument that goes against the likes of ULFA.
>>>
>>>  The Chinese Communists have become good capitalists, even lending the US
>>>>
>>> money albeit to make the bubble burst?
>>>
>>> Don't know where this fits in? BUT Lending money to the US - yes, through
>>> USD holdings. The US has been giving the Chinese MFN (Most Favored
>>> Nation)
>>> status to export goods/services for a long time. The US market is flooded
>>> with Chinese made goods. The MFN is one of the most coveted awards the US
>>> dishes out. That alone, it can be argued, can catapult a country like
>>> China
>>> into prominence and an economic power - and today, they are EVEN in a
>>> position to help the US.
>>>
>>>  The Maoist Prachanda (who raged a armed rebellion) has given up on arms
>>>>
>>> even to let others rule
>>>
>>>> even when his is the single largest party, in conformity with democratic
>>>>
>>> norms, not usually followed by our BJPs/ Congresses.
>>>
>>> I don't know this person. But what on earth is a Maoist doing following
>>> Democratic norms? So, from this example, we ought to just let let
>>> violence
>>> these groups perpetrate go unabated - hoping (against hope) that they all
>>> give up arms, let others rule, and even follow democracy?
>>>
>>> C'mon Uttam... does this really make sense? :-)
>>>
>>>  Pray, why this prejudice, the knee-jerk reaction? The days of
>>>> iron/bamboo
>>>>
>>> curtains are quite over.
>>>
>>> Not really. Look at some history. Through numerous trials and errors, the
>>> world has generally accepted democracy as a true and tested form of
>>> governance. There are a few different forms of democracy (the British and
>>> US
>>> systems differ, and so does Japan), but in general, most countries follow
>>> a
>>> system close as possible to democracy.
>>> Yes, there are problems, specially in a country like India, and it takes
>>> time, and a nation and her people often needs to mature. India's
>>> experience
>>> with democracy is only 60 odd years - compared to the Brits and the US.
>>>
>>> As far as those other systems go - those have been successful, only if
>>> one
>>> thinks that the people in China, Vietnam and Cuba are a free people with
>>> independent thought and action? Otherwise, they are total failures.
>>> As for these ultra groups, their goals, methods, and promises, the less
>>> said, the better.
>>>
>>> If any of the other isms you cite were that good, the world over people
>>> would have been embracing them. Those systems can be enforced only by
>>> force.
>>> Do we want that?
>>>
>>>  The Naxals/ Maoists may turn out to be good democrats, who knows? Else
>>>> they
>>>>
>>> will lose the fight,
>>>
>>>> due to lack of people's support; if they are wrong PC does not even have
>>>> to
>>>>
>>> raise a finger. They will
>>>
>>>> crumble due to their own foibles that you so clearly find in them.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't where we are headed?
>>>
>>> Naxals/Maoists are perpetrating all this violence, so that they can
>>> establish a good Democracy? You are kidding, right?
>>>
>>> Why don't they just become 'democrats' to start with :-)
>>>
>>> --Ram da
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 4:49 AM, UTTAM BORTHAKUR <
>>> uttamborthakur at yahoo.co.in
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>  Ram Da,
>>>>
>>>> Could anyone use/ incite Rameswars if they were otherwise comfortable?
>>>> Could you hatch chicken from stones?
>>>>
>>>> Second, why do you have to think that Naxals and Maoists would be like
>>>> Indira, the dictator?
>>>> The Chinese Communists have become good capitalists, even lending the US
>>>> money albeit to
>>>> make the bubble burst?
>>>> The Euro communists are not demonic the way you paint the communists.
>>>> Our CPM is quite docile; even supports the UPA.
>>>> The Maoist Prachanda (who raged a armed rebellion) has given up on arms
>>>> even
>>>> to let others rule
>>>> even when his is the single largest party, in conformity with democratic
>>>> norms,
>>>> not usually followed by our BJPs/ Congresses.
>>>> Pray, why this prejudice, the knee-jerk reaction? The days of
>>>> iron/bamboo
>>>> curtains are quite over.
>>>> The Naxals/ Maoists may turn out to be good democrats, who knows? Else
>>>> they
>>>> will lose the fight,
>>>> due to lack of people's support; if they are wrong PC does not even have
>>>> to
>>>> raise a finger. They will
>>>> crumble due to their own foibles that you so clearly find in them.
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