[Assam] H1B innovation? One-Horse US Univs; Loan Crisis Hits the MBA World

[Krishnendu Chakraborty]

&&& Okay I agree about the dual intent aspect.

---- Good that you learnt ! Also noticed that you dropped the 'Big Lie' from the  title ... you apparently learnt that the 'lie' is applicable only for F1s NOT for H1.


&&&& Just going to Harvard does not make anyone all-knowing God :-)

-----  And I thought that ALL US educated ones are Skilled to take up anytype of job  :)  I mean, damn to job requirement, I   am better then an Indian educated in every job :) 


&&& More power to you. I hope in your family noone ever came to the US to study. 

----   Immaterial to this discussion .

&&&&I pray to God that they never get H1B work visa or Green Card after they come to study here - so that they never have to lie.

--- again Immaterial as long as they do not keep whining on why I did not get H1 but someone from third world got it.


&&& US immigration accepts and allows US grads from other countries to apply for H1B - the department doesn't say -- Hey, you came to the US to study or as a visitor - you cannot apply for work here.

---- Perfect .   But that DOES NOT discount the fact that F1 is a Non-Immigrant intent visa.  Nor does it change the fact that MOST of F1 comes to US as a  stepping stone toward H1 and GC  but they DO NOT disclose that intent.

&&&& When US is helping the US grads then why are you fuming?

--- Who ?  Me ?  I thought you started this and you were fuming why third world guys should get H1 !   I am all for equality but you do not seem to be happy with that .
You seem to be all with US Law when they are extending OPT to 29 months but you are fuming when they allow non-US educated people to apply for H1.  What's the problem ?



&&& Now I think you need education in H1B filing. How could I have come back to work on H1B in October (as per law I cannot start work before October) after staying only one month in Canada - when I have to apply long before that.  

---- Perfect .  So that shows that your H1 was FILED when you were in US still on F1.  That validates my point that you wanted to use F1 as a stepping stone to H1 and (maybe) GC.

&&& Just becos someone says to a visa officer, Yes I plan to come back and work in India -- ban me forever to seek other opportunities in your country. 

--- So what is practical ...  Hey I  have a Masters in Education from US but I have attended a 7 day crash course in IT.  So that makes me more IT skilled over someone who has graduated in IT from a third country and has 5 years experience !



***** The question is who (mis)uses these rules ? Can you vouch that
the F1s never misuses these ? I see it other way all throughout forum
postings.



&&& It should be stopped.

---  Good  that we agree .  And once this is stopped, much of H1 will be freed up.   


&&& Dr Smith does not need any US visa. My argument was for the students who came from other countries and studied here. IIT doesn't have a single Nobel prize winning researcher - never had one.   Thus, IIT grads should stand below others above them in ranking. Current world ranking of IIT-Delhi is 154
http://www.topuniversities.com/schools/data/school_profile/default/indianinstitutetechnologydelhiiitd
 I got this thru US News and World Report
http://www.usnews.com/sections/education/worlds-best-colleges/index.html

----  One Nobel prize winner in one department does not make the entire school top.  You yourself have mentioned that IIT Delhi is ranked 154 in World.  This Mason George is below that even in US per the list which you pointed.  So,  the Nobel Prize winner apparently could not pull Mason Geroge over IIT .   So  your argument does not hold water.

Also,   if Indian education is so far behind US education, how did you manage to get to Harvard  peeping over US edcuated folks who sure wanted to get to Harvard?  I mean,  does not Harvard have a pretty high bar ?    

Further ,  I thought you said that every student in these Tier 1,2,3 are super brilliant and doing cutting edge research .  So logically all of them should get O visa ... right ?
Finally, just to inform you H1 program can be used by people of ALL countrys .. not only Indians.  I have a co-wroker from Hungary and another from Phillipines and they are on H1.  Sure,  schools in other countries (at least European countries) have Nobel laureauts, if that is your criteria.  
For example, I can see Cambridge and Oxford right after Harvard and Yale in your list. But thore are not in US.  So, per your logic,  a grad from Cambridge or Oxford  is less skilled then someone from (say) Mason George !


****** Hmmm... an absurd logic. What about the forged experience by US
Grads. And what about the lie on immigration intent they started their
journey in US with ? With this logic, F1's should never be granted H1
because they lied to a US Visa officer.

There are Visa Officers  whose job is to detect such forgery.  



&&& Perhaps visa officers should have lie detectors placed alongside - check the pulse and heartbeat!!  What about those who  really were telling the truth and still decided to stay on in the US and seek work.

--  You read wrong.  The discussion was about forgery.  The VO's job is to detect that .. for H1 aspirants if there Degree and experience are faked ;   for F1 aspirants if their financial statements are faked.   And the VO does that with a fairly good accuracy as I see from the forums.  However,  SOME H1s do make it with forged experience/degree just the way SOME F1 make it with forged Financial Statements.    Do you  say that no F1 should be granted because SOME F1 forges documents ?



&&& I think education is free in India 

----  Indeed .  It is SIGNIFICANTLY less expensive in India if you do not go to those capitation fee colleges.  For example,  the fees for Govt colleges in Assam (including the most reputed Cotton College) runs to less then a thousand rupees per year.   Compare that to your $50,000  and you will see the difference.   Definitely  I am not comparing Cotton to Harvard  but even  a very low grade school in US will cost MUCH more then that.
Even for the tech colleges in other parts of India,  the cost in Govt run ones  are  less then Rs50K for whole academic at most ... no where close to $50K 

&&& if one goes to IIT one has to go to a top high school, pay thousands for tutoring, pay hundreds of thousands to study there. 

---  Is it ?   you mean every IIT graduate went to schools where the fees are in hundreds of thousands.    I thought we have quite a few IIT graduates in this forum and all of them did their schooling in Assam which does not have even a single school (even today) which charges hundreds of thousands.    Further,  if someone can spend that much amount for high school education, why would he/she go to low ranking (according to you)  IIT.  They can very well study in some Tier 3 US school, right ?

BTW,  the IIT education is not too expensive as I know.  The fees including mess runs to around 65K per year and their are generous scholarships.


&&&I think , it would be impractical to imagine that those who get tech skills in India hail from poor families.

--- you know little about India ... 

&&& I don't get you argument.. If someone came to the US - from a billionaire family in India - say Ratan Tata's nephew going to MIT and then seeking a work visa. Whats wrong with that. 

---  Nothing wrong as long as he says 'I want it all'  and 'I  want those Indian educated guys to be treated second class' .  That's exactly what you are asking for.

&&&And about the one-horse town univ - US immigration should not accept applications from those who graduate from such unaccredited univs such as www.unva.edu 

---  Onehorsetown univ are not necessarily all unaccredited.  Not all accredited Univ are great.


&&& So you are saying that those who graduate from Indian Univs are poor and thus would never sit on the bench if allowed to work in the US, or that if they did have to - they would run back to India. My experience tells me otherwise. Once a person comes to the US on H1B - s/he earns dollaaars. Then, with that money it is easy to stay on the bench-- simple logic -- seen thru experience. 

----  Your logic is perfect.  But read carefully .  In my earlier posting I said "The initial bench period is mostly observed either those from F1 -- H1 OR from H4 -- H1.  For others,  the initial bench is pretty low ... it becomes more of a problem when they are in between projects.  "
Note the word INITIAL Bench.    Apparently,  a H1 from India will not have $$$ when he arrives,  but an F1-H1 can afford that since he had the financial capability to study here.    Further to that,   an H1 from India has no reason to land in US and wait for a project.   Nowadays ,  many interviews are done over phone   and the H1 holder can take that from India as well.  On the other hand,  the F1-H1 is  already in US and will wait on bench to get a Project.

If a person has the money required to study in US AND he wants to get H1,  why would he study in India?  He can very well study in US and join people like you who say H1 should be closed for others.  Sure you don't mean that only the brightest get admitted to any damn US school :) 
 


&&& I think you misread - I said relevant US degrees - not jus IT.

---  You said "most IT people I know here are US grads with substantial coursework in IT"  And since you appear to agree that most opening is in IT (someone told you he can sponsor your H1 if you are in IT),  the logical conclusion is MOST H1 aspirants have graduated in IT.

>>Give preference to them , just like give preference to me for
education jobs - over someone who is an IT expert with no degree in
education.



**** Again, I have absolutely no problem when someone with skill and
experience get H1 but it is all wrong when you say that a non IT US
Grad should have preference over a non US IT Grad with (say) 5 years
experience even though the job demands IT skills. 



&&& It is quite easy for a nonUS IT grad to fake work experience -- isn't it. be frank!!


----   Sure ... but so it is for a US IT/non-IT Grad.    What is the difference ?  Faking experience and forged degree are not the same.
Also,   most Indian H1 are picked up by companies like TCS, Infy etc.   And the hiring process in these companies have a very strong backgound check.  I know you will come up with Satyam  but the Satyam CEO's activities do not have anything to do with the Recruitment process.    I know this first hand because I have been closely associated with hiring process in one of the major IT company and have seen people being rejected after background check.


I was rather sad to see that you avoided discussing  most important points --- like exploiting  the H1 system by some people  INCLUDING  those F1s who pay $$$ to 3 or 4  shady bodyshopper to file H1,  take a 7 day crash course in IT and forge  resume.

I do not see any problem if genuine skilled and experienced people get H1 be it US educated or foreign educated but your rant seems to be that ALL US edcuated ones should get H1... irrespective of they have skill ,  they have the necessary experience  OR their is a job requirement in their field of study.